President Bush's trip to Iraq

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Stelliform, Nov 27, 2003.

  1. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    #1
    I the spirit of keeping political discussions out of Current events, I have created this thread to encourage discussion on President Bush's trip too Iraq.

    (The thread on this in Current Events had some stuff that really belonged here....)

    I personally think it is pretty cool that he went to the trouble for the sneak visit. And I am amazed that the press kept their mouths shut until after!
     
  2. Stelliform thread starter macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
  3. groovebuster macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    3rd rock from the sun...
    #3
    Or maybe a few thousand...

    The majority of the Iragi people sees the USA as an occupying power and not as liberators. Also if you repeat it 5 million times it won't change.

    Funny situation, when the liberated person actually feels not liberated, but occupied...

    groovebuster
     
  4. Stelliform thread starter macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #5
    i agree that to leave iraq the way it is is a bad idea. but that doesn't mean the US has to be the force that stays.

    i would support and handover of power to the UN. i have to wonder if there's a large number of iraqis who silently support the attacks on the US troops, who would frown upon such attacks on a truly international force.
     
  6. huntsman macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    #6
    I got that fuzzy feeling in my stomach when I saw it but I took that as a warning. It was an emotionally potent, calculated event that may temporarily boost troop morale (with no effect on the reality on the ground) but was intended primarily to help boost his stature at home. You have to give credit to the person who thought it up--if the posts here are any indication, not to mention the virtual euphoria in more conservative forums I visit--it worked brilliantly.

    Putting on my speculative hat, it may be that it's not just politically self-serving, but personally as well. Following on from the aircraft carrier stunt earlier this year, it seems as though the President has some emotional need show off his "support" for the troops. He sees these acts as some sort of penance stemming from guilt about his own dubious military record.

    But my speculation is just self-indulgent. This event is all really just a case of the sideshow taking centre stage. The real story is what's happening on the ground every day in Iraq, not a fleeting, surprise visit by the President. A BBC programme that was aired here last week, in which a reporter tagged along with American troops during the summer, showed that they were desperate for the direction and support they weren't getting to restore law and order and essential services. Iraqis who were not seeing these things being done, but living with the rampant crime while being shot at and having their homes raided by American troops, were becoming more resistant to the occupation.

    The programme also showed the disconnect between those at the top, Bremer et al, and the daily reality for American troops and Iraqis. Just how is Mr Bush, being cheered by momentarily euphoric troops and creating a distraction at home, helping himself understand the situation on the ground to give them appropriate direction and support?
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #7
    Re: President Bush's trip to Iraq

    so am i.

    it's giving me somewhat of a chilled feeling though. i cannot remember another event where the press was informed beforehand and told it had the power to prevent the actual event.

    this is a bizarre form of WH control over the press that had never even occurred to me. i haven't gotten my head around it yet.

    my gut says there's something deeply wrong with it. i'm thinking Heisenberg would agree.
     
  8. Stelliform thread starter macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #9
    yeah, that's even more messed up. threaten the press or put reporters in danger in order to control news flow? that's sick.

    of course, it's painted in such a way that it's cutsie and palatable to the public. i still have a very uneasy feeling about all this.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #10
    It might have to do with the underlying phonieness of the whole thing. If I thought Bush did this for the troops it would be one thing, but I think he did this for himself for another photo-op. And if it came from a President who actually supported the veterans I would feel differently as well. It was a nice gesture to the troops, but somehow I don't think the troops were the targeted benficiary of the trip. And now that he has gone, they still have the same situation on the ground to deal with...

    A better present would have been an increase in vets benefits, or announcement of an international force structure that would allow the troops to come home.
     
  11. jonapete2001, Nov 28, 2003
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #12
    Ok, given the premise that Bush wanted to do something to help the troops out, he chose a method that made sure he was all over the headlines in a flight suit again. Yet he cuts veterans benefits, and waits till the media is harping on him before he improves conditions in military hospitals. I don't call that troop support.
     
  13. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #13
    when the media reported that bush's " secret mission" was successful i almost laughed so hard i wet myself...secret mission...right.... if that's a secret mission then bob hope has him beat by a mile...

    i also find it highly ironic that the man who says " bring 'em on" gets to sneak into and out of town...i remember an adjective we had in school for people who taunted and then hid...wussie.

    another photo-op of our dimestore cowboy( and historically AWOL) leader.

    how sad.
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #14
    From Bush:

    Bull****, bull****, bull****, a lie and a goddamned lie.

    Iraqis react:

    I'm inclined to agree with this chap:

     
  15. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #15
    Are the American people so stupid that they're going to believe that the Coward-in-Chief actually cares about those troops? I think he would care a lot more about them if they were all killed and it came down to fighting in Iraq himself.

    I find it hard to believe that anyone but an entranced Bush supporter finds anything good about what's happening there. There is no plan and our troops are dying because of it. They can't go away now but someone smarter has to develop a plan. Is it as simple as providing escorts for transports and putting snipers to work for the U.S.A.?
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #16
    at this point, i'm willing to give bush the benefit of the doubt about the purpose of the trip. i can't fault a commander in chief for visiting serving troops. though w/ any WH, we can certainly expect it to serve a political end.

    the weirdness comes from the secrecy. the most secret WH is history pulls off a stunt that celebrates secrecy. the press praises the secrecy, and americans are delighted by it. this should be setting off red flags about the secretive nature of this WH in general.

    one should also consider an underlying benefit of the secrecy: security. did this whole secrecy stunt start w/ the realization that it wasn't safe for bush to announce a visit to iraq? what's that say about the security situation there? add to that the fact bush didn't venture anywhere where there were iraqis, and i start to think the whole secrecy gimmick was really to distract from the truth.

    finally, the control of the press i'd mentioned earlier still chills me. there did exist knowing members of news organizations who weren't actually aboard Air Force One. w/ what were the news organizations bribed, or threatened w/, to keep silent? should i now be worried that our supposedly Free Press has been bullied into submission? or bought off?
     
  17. jonapete2001, Nov 28, 2003
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  18. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #18
    Not very secure at the moment? How about nine months of moments?

    The way this operation was conducted should tell you everything you need to know about the security situation in Iraq.
     
  19. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2001
    Location:
    In the shadow of the Space Needle.
    #19
    Absolutely not! Cheney's secret energy taskforce? Stonewalling the 9/11 investigations? Ashcrofts order that any FOIA request be automatically rejected no matter what information is being sought? Unprecedented. Nixon's administration was widely held as the most secretive, but now it's Bush II by far.
     
  20. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2001
    Location:
    In the shadow of the Space Needle.
    #20
    Bush's two hours at the airport with 600 troops 20 miles from the nearest Iraqi was definitely a photo op. It was a nice gesture to the troops that are being killed and wounded for his folly, and I hope it has a good effect on their morale, but it's not as good an effect if they were all getting on Air Force One and coming back home instead. I'd cut George aWol Bush a little more slack if he'd been better about supporting the troops throughout this fiasco. How many funerals has he attended? None and unfortunately he's had 400 opportunities so far.

    Hillary Clinton spent Thanksgiving in Afghanistan and Friday in Iraq visiting troops from NY. Not just a couple hours in a secure location under secret, but meeting Afghans and Iraqis in the streets. There were also reports that aWol was scared to go and reluctant up to the last minute.
     
  21. Rebel macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    #21
    It was a gutsy trip. I will give him that. This guy has shown some balls from from the get-go of 911.

    But there is another secret that they are keeping. Although we have only had several hundred casualties in this war, we have several thousands of troop recovering with missing legs, arms, eyes, etc. The media is being told not to dwell on this issue. Due to political bs, the Iraqi wounded are getting better treatment from our medics than our own. Parents here at home are buying their children modern defense gear because our government will not foot-the-bill.

    Our employees better quit dickin around with politics, and get the job done. Our troops deserve better than what they are getting.
     
  22. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #22
    It smacks of camp xray in Guantanamo Bay. The only "safe" place for all those supposed enemy combatants is shrouded in secrecy. The only safe place for gw is at Saddam International Airport in Baghdad on a trip shrouded in secrecy. If this was such an important event, why wasn't it trumpeted to the world? It only underlines the fact that Iraq is not a safe place for him or for the troops serving there and it's because of his political goals that it is such an effed up place.

    I wonder how many troops wanted to boo him?
     
  23. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #23
    Gutsy, in what way exactly? Was it the arrival under the cover of darkness or the departure before anyone knew he was there?
     
  24. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #24
    Gutsy would have been an announced week-long tour.

    Gutsy would have been flying to D.C. or New York on 9/11 instead of cowering in a bunker.

    He's a proven, certified chicken**** and has been since 'Nam.
     
  25. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #25
    I don't like to get into personality issues because they presume a lot and in the end don't produce much in the way of useful conclusions. But I've brought this up before, so I have to say once again that I believe this president pretty clearly values his own safety over the safety of others. Yes, he is the President, and yes he should be protected more then the rest of us, if for that reason alone. This is a given. But a wartime leader leads by example, and from 9-11 onwards, I just haven't seen this quality in George W. Bush. The stealth visit to Iraq is just another example of attempting to fabricate the image of courageous leadership without the reality and substance of it.
     

Share This Page