PS3 Blu-Ray or 360 HD-DVD?

Discussion in 'Games' started by Shacklebolt, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. Shacklebolt macrumors 6502a

    Shacklebolt

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    #1
    Okay, I realize this is a VERY, VERY narrow thread, as I don't know many people who own a 360 the HD DVD player and the PS3... hell, I'm one of them, but I don't have them in the same place to compare.

    I think the HD-DVD player for the 360 is awesome. With the 5.1 sound going and the picture being... well... nice... it's just an awesome movie experience.

    That said, today I actually hook up my PS3. I've said it before - I expect the quality of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD to be 100% identitcal.

    Does anyone here who has a PS3 have problems with the Blu-Ray quality?
     
  2. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #2
    It was only some of the first BluRay discs. They weren't compressed very well and some of the darker scenes have mpeg artifacts.

    Newer movies are no problem and yes. Both formats output identical picture and at identical resolutions (although the ps3 itself doesnt output BluRay at 1080i does it?)

    Both formats are great offering much better picture quality. Plus stick on Dolby Digtal True HD sound and wow its amazing.

    In only the 6 or so weeks that the 360 HD-DVD drive came out I have bought 16 HD-DVD's :eek: Love the quality.

    And of course will be getting a ps3 shortly and have no doubt I'll be buying bluray movies that I cant get on HD-DVD

    Of course no-one really knows which will win, and with the current situation of multiplayers and studios releasing discs with both formats on the same disc, it could be simply be a case that both continue to exist much like DVD-R & DVD+R.
     
  3. bozigle macrumors regular

    #3
    Humm...
    that is one of the big mistake made by the bluray side.
    For some reason plenty of movie are still encoded with MPEG-2 instead of the both newly algo H.264, and VC-1. on the other hand, most HD-DVD are encoded in VC-1.
    So no matter how good is the quality to start from... a HD-DVD will have a much better quality than the same BD... until they realised that they should use a better codec... (and they might release a new version "collector" of the BD that is properly encoded)
    When you buy your discs, check on the codec if present on the jacket MPEG-2 is just too old for the HD format in term of quality

    bozigle
     
  4. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #4
    actually I think all are arent they.
     
  5. Shacklebolt thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Shacklebolt

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    #5
    Well, I could test hypothetically by getting the Blu-ray of Unforgiven (I already own the HD). I thought it looked spectacular on HD, but we'll see. I've been dropping so much money on electronic gadgetry over the past month that if I feel like I can save 25 bucks, I'll take it.

    Funny story, actually. I bought my PS3 60gb, R:fom, an extra controller, and A Knight's Tale on Blu-Ray from Best Buy. On the way to the front, I asked one of the ladies if I would get a discount for paying in cash (as opposed to credit card) - she responded with, "We can't. But I can give you 5% off on the controller" (so what, $2.75 off). When I went to check out, I made a point to say to the lady, "Remember, I was offered 5% off that controller." She looked at me like I was crazy, as the total came up to just short of 800.
     
  6. bozigle macrumors regular

    #6
    Yop! from the ones i saw, they are all VC-1 but as the BD they can support MPEG-2 and H.264...
    let's hope they don't get stupid and keep up with a good codec.

    I was just trying to be on the safe side
    bozigle
     
  7. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #7
    Hmmmm... good point. I knew that + and - were different somehow and that eventually they just made dual format readers/writers, I just don't know how they're technically different. As for HD-DVD and BluRay, I know a little more about the competing formats, but overall are the differences between them comparable to the differences between + and -? And more importantly (and this is more of a rhetorical question) are the manufacturing companies able to overcome these technical differences to provide us with a solution, whether it's a dual (or tri- if you include a standard DVD layer) format disc or a dual (tri-) format player?
     
  8. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #8
    Well technically they probably are very different. But if LG has managed to make a multi-player and Warner Bros are able to make discs with both, it causes a bit of a dichotomy.

    Because - if you historically force the consumer to make a decision - they eventually do and one of them (or neither) will come out on top.

    Betamax - VHS (vhs won)
    MiniDisc & Philips DCC - (neither really won)


    But - If you say well were going to be friendly to the consumer and give them the option of Not Deciding - then simply no decision is reached and a clear winner is never evident. Great for consumer & manufacturers but not for deciding a clear winner.

    DVD-R DVD+R


    So if the consumer say's we'd prefer multi disc players and combo discs, which will probably be the case - both formats stand a very good chance of holding in there.

    Expect in 12-18 months time, nearly all the main manufacturers (Philips LG, Samsung, Mitsubishi etc...) to have released combi HD players and burners, whilst Sony will continue to only support 1 format (it's own)

    I also expect DVD to still be on top in 3 years time.
     
  9. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #9
    Arstechnica did a great article on Xbox360 v PS3 (albeit, it was hosted by Microsoft to show their console was as good if not better); which included comparison of both HD DVD formats.

    On a big 1080p screen, the author claimed he could see tiny differences between the two formats in some scenes with freeze-frame; but they were insignificant. Effectively, the two formats are equal.
     
  10. aj98 macrumors member

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    #10
    I believe it does.

    It'll output whatever format your TV can handle; It's been a while since I set mine up, but I seem to recall a function in the PS3 setup utility where you specify the formats/resolutions your TV supports.

    My TV is 1080 native; I get 1080p when I play a bluray DVD.

    AJ
     
  11. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #11

    Sorry your right, bit of confusion. It was that the PS3 doesnt currently output BluRay movies in 720p at all.

    It supports 480p / 1080i / 1080p for BluRay movie playback.

    So if your TV is 720p or doesnt support 1080i - your BluRay movies will be downscaled to 480p making them no better than DVD :eek:
     
  12. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #12
    This months EGM just rated the PS3 as one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market. As for the HD DVD add-on drive for the 360, they said it was lackluster with a poor picture quality compared to HD DVD standalones and "you get what you pay for at $200".

    From what I have read there has been a lot of acclaim for the Blu-Ray player in the PS3, and a lot of complaints about the quality of the HD DVD player add-on for the 360.
     
  13. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #13
    I definitely can't complain about the HD-DVD addon, picture quality is excellent.

    Of course, I think you are looking at a reversed situation for stand alone players. Basically, it's easy for PS3 to be the best BD player since all the stand alones are poor. In reverse, the stand alond HD-DVD players are much better then their BD counterparts, so the 360 addon has more to live up to.

    Chances are the 360 addon and the PS3 BD player are pretty equal in quality, only the PS3 has weak BD competition and the 360 has strong HD competition.
     
  14. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #14
    Yeah, I can kinda see that the dual-format thing is where this is headed based on what's happened so far, with the customer ultimately ending up with a dual-format player and just purchasing whatever movies he/she wants with no regard as to the format. One of the worst things about being on the bleeding edge of technology is having to worry about your format of choice being abandoned. There are already dual-format players on the market (Samsung, I think has one out, too). That and dual-format discs practically ensure that neither format will completely lose, but neither should there be a clear-cut "winner".
     
  15. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #15
    Samsung is Blu-Ray only, LG has the only dual format player that was announced at CES this year.

    December sales results put Blu-Ray on top of HD DVD for both hardware and software. Japan is 96% Blu-Ray adoption, HD DVD's encryption method was cracked, Blu-Ray has the support of most the top studios and the biggest group of hardware manufacturers.

    Food for thought. In all reality HD DVD proving they cannot secure studios IP is a death blow, especially this early in the game.

    As far as the stand alone BD players being bad, have you ever used one? the reviews on the Samsung were great, and the Sony standalone also has great reviews. The new Toshiba HD DVD is supposed to be better than the first one, but the HD DVD add for the 360 on was critized by most home theater sources and reviewers. The problems with most the early BD players was the interface, not the video quality as it is with the 360 player.

    Blu Ray will be the clear winner by years end, DVD will start its phase out mid to late 2009.

    Ed
     
  16. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #16
    It's interesting that you bring up -R/+R. I think neither of those was really adopted as a "standard" because it wasn't a really big deal for most people. With movies - you're stuck with one or the other. But with blank media like that, I think consumers just buy whatever they can use (and pay more attention to brand names than anything).

    Plus, once dual format burners came out years ago, then the -R/+R war really hit a bottom because it didn't matter anymore; most people could use either and both were equally supported. :eek:

    Agreed wholeheartedly on both counts. :D
    Sony lived and died with Betamax and didn't release VHS players for awhile; I expect to see the same with BluRay if it doesn't take off like they hope.

    I think too many people own DVD players, too few people own HDTVs, and it took most DVD owners awhile to go from VHS->DVD and I don't expect any overnight switchers anytime soon. IMHO the standard DVD format is pretty entrenched in most households; players are cheap, discs are cheap, and it's cheap to make your own DVDs (or copies if you are so inclined ;)). DVD isn't going away anytime soon, no matter how well HD-DVD and BluRay do or don't do.
     
  17. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #17
    Yeah I'm delighted with the quality and have no problems recommending the drive.


    Ed, In regards to you comment on the 360's drive

    I have not read any negative comments about the 360 drive from users, and the other guys in my clan with the drive love it also and have not had any technical issues.

    Can you elaborate what these complaints / issues are ?

    The no 720p on PS3 bluray is a by far more of a technical issue in fairness.

    At least the 360's HD-DVD does exactly what it says on the tin and outputs all resolutions. 480/720/1080i/1080p and also Disc access time & startup is actually faster than most standalone HD-DVD players.
     
  18. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #18
    And thinking about, I honestly believe that's where we're headed with HD-DVD and BluRay. In ~2 years, it'll be a moot point.


    True, stores have only recently (past 12-18 mos) stopped selling VHS in large quantities.
     
  19. fiercetiger224 macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    The PS3 was made from the start to be a top-quality Blu-ray player. It was made to display true 1080p, along with uncompressed Dolby TrueHD audio. The 360 will always be inferior just because it's an add-on.

    Yes, you do get what you pay for. Let's add this up. If you got a 360 pro, along with an HD-DVD player, $399 + $199, that already cost just as much as the PS3. Not only that, but Microsoft will keep it at those price points until Sony does their first pricedrop. They know that they can milk as much money from customers as they can right now, because most customers will be like "Oh, the 360 is cheaper than the PS3, I can get this first, and then get an HD-DVD drive later." And they need to keep it at those price points because they're actually making a profit right now. Their system appears cheaper, until you add those two together. It's just a misconcept for customers.

    Personally, I'd like everything built into one unit, and not as an add-on. And for the PS3, you definitely get what you pay for. I know that some people say, "The 360 has better games now! So it's a better value!". And I say, who cares. You know what you're getting. The PS3 is a better value for long term, not short term. And a lot of games that are on the 360 are also on PC, which I vastly prefer over console versions. The PS3 will have games that won't be on the 360 or PC. And that's where your value comes in. The PS3 WILL have excellent titles by fall of this year. Have patience.

    I like the 360, it's just that there aren't that many titles that are appealing me right now, and I can find most of those on PC. I'm just waiting for Halo 3, the true reason to own a 360. :D
     
  20. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #20
    The 360 outputs 1080p too and also uncompressed Dolby TrueHD.

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Please stop FUD'ing. As much as it iritates me when people post unsubstantiated rubbish about the ps3, it goes the same way with the 360.

    Really it does nothing than make you look ignorant.
     
  21. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #21
    Yea. That guys comment was uber-FUDable.

    What's nice about the 360's HD-DVD drive is for the 6 or so million who bought a 360 before the drive was announced, they just got a next gen video drive for 130 quid. Comparitively speaking that's damn cheap.

    There still seems to be a bit of confusion about the whole HD video situation. My brother wanted to get a HD-DVD drive despite him only having an SDTV... "Well they can fit more extras on right?". poor technophobes. Though it cracked myself up when during a talk about HDTV my folks asked "can you get some kind of High Definition DVD player?". They still don't know what BluRay is.
     
  22. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #22
    Not to mention the PS3 BD drive probably added... oh... $200 to the price of the system. Effectively making it pretty much identical in cost to the addon. Point is, you get what you pay for.... either way your just getting a $200 player, either integrated or external! :D :p
     
  23. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #23


    What iritates me is that on one hand you have someone saying the PS3 is cheap for a BluRay player, and its the most expensive machine on the market because it was designed to be a top notch movie player and has all these extra features.

    Crticising microsoft for not having 1080p via HDMI, but hold on what about 720p on PS3 ?

    They then criticise microsofts add on for $200 saying its too cheap and you get what you pay for, and yet it in the the next hread they will then add all the 360 extra's and complain its more expensive than a PS3...

    So if its more expensive surely your getting what you paid for right? The arguments do not stack up and its getting really silly.

    Do you not see irony people before you post beacuse I certainly do.




    Why can people not simply except that both players PS3 BluRay & 360 with HD-DVD both represent great value for money, both offer great picture and sound and both are not perfect (360 lack of HDMI - PS3 lack of 720p movie support).


    Stop spreading FUD people and exercise your mind before you post. :mad:
     
  24. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #24
    I'm not Fud'ing :)

    "Also, if you want the full resolution of Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS' trio of new formats, any or all of which are available on HD DVD, you're not going to get it from the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on. That's because these formats require either an HDMI output or an analog multichannel output--both of which are lacking on the 360 and the external drive."

    From a C|Net review.

    They also went on to say that it lacked the sharpness of a HDMI connected unit.

    I dont doubt that its a good solution for a X360 owner, but in my opinion its lacking in far more areas than the PS3's BD player is. I'm trying to make points without turning this discussion in to a flame fest...

    Ed
     
  25. greatdevourer macrumors 68000

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    #25
    Actually, 360 + HDDVD is cheaper ;)
     

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