PS3 Physically Incapable Of Scaling - Other Solution Provided!

Discussion in 'Games' started by greatdevourer, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. Foxglove9 macrumors 65816

    Foxglove9

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    #2
    Wow, I didn't know it wasn't capable of upscaling. That's terrible.
     
  2. Chone macrumors 65816

    Chone

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    #3
    I don't think is permanent, even if the PS3 didn't have an scaler physically, that task could still be done by the GPU (and nvidia's scaling is superb :)).
     
  3. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #4
    Out of curiosity how much will it cost for a full PS3 now :D ?
     
  4. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #5
    Don't be too sure about that. One difference between the 360 and the PS3 is that the 360 has a hardware frame buffer which can take any signal from a game, DVD, HD-DVD, or anything else and convert it to the appropriate resolution for your display... from what I understand, images are all processed up to maximum resolution (1080p) and then downscaled to match your display. The PS3 does not have similar hardware, from what I have read.

    So it looks like Sony may have taken their mantra of "only 1080p is TRUE HD" a bit too far. If your TV can do 1080p, then you're fine; if not, you may not get what you want.
     
  5. AoWolf macrumors 6502a

    AoWolf

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    #6
    2kish

    Sony is making very few friends.
     
  6. Chone macrumors 65816

    Chone

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    #7
    But GPUs can do the same process without any performance hit as well and without the need of a dedicated frame buffer, the thing is, scaling CAN be implemented through the GPU without a performance hit, nvidia has custom scaling options in the drivers for their desktop GPUs, they are much better than the built in monitor "dedicated" scaler so I think PS3 is covered hardware wise, its just a matter of whether Sony can implement it without ruining something else.

    There might be something else though.
     
  7. Chrispy macrumors 68020

    Chrispy

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    #8
    So what does this mean? If you don't have a television capable of 1080i HDMI then the playstation 3 will look funky on our display? If this is true, Sony truly went overboard with the PS3 and its requirements!
     
  8. g30ffr3y macrumors 6502a

    g30ffr3y

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    #9
    2k ish... id be happy to get 1200 for my 60...
     
  9. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #10
    This is easiest to explain with an example.

    Say you have a TV that is capable of two modes: 1080i, and 480p.

    If you have an Xbox 360 and you play a game that is programmed at 720p (which is not a mode your TV supports), here's what happens:

    360: Hey, I have a game that's 720p. Can you display 720p?
    TV: No, I can do 1080i and 480p.
    360: Cool, I'll upscale the game to 1080i. [pause] Here you go!
    TV: Thanks!

    Now, if you have a PS3 connected to the same TV and you play a game that is programmed at 720p, here's what happens:

    PS3: Hey, I have a game that's 720p. Can you display 720p?
    TV: No, I can do 1080i and 480p.
    PS3: Crud. Well, here comes the game at 480p.
    TV: I can do 1080i, you know.
    PS3: Yeah, but I don't upscale.
    TV: The Xbox 360 does. [pause] You suck.
     
  10. sikkinixx macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #11
    so because some dude on a message baoard says it is true we should all believe him/her? :confused: :confused:

    Personally, I wouldn't take anything of what anyone says on this board as truth unless there is a nice bit of backup info. There is a slight bit of bias around.

    However, if it is true, Sony needs a bit of a smack upside the head.
     
  11. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #12
    Every gaming site I know of (IGN, Gamespot, et al) tested the PS3 on 1080i-only TVs and found that games are being downscaled to 480p.

    So yeah, Sony deserves a smack upside the head.
     
  12. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #13
    Not just some dude on a message board.

    It is true. The PS3 does no upscaling at all unfortunetly.



    Just sony, being sony...

    i'm shocked not by the lack of 1080p in most of the launch games, but the lack of 1080i in the games like R:FOM surprises me...
     
  13. sikkinixx macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #14
    But does that prove it can never do it? Or just that they f***ed up and next firmware update it is fixed?
     
  14. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #15
    Given that the PS3 does NOT have the hardware frame buffer that the 360 has, it is possible that it will NEVER do upscaling. Even if it does, it'll have to be a software-based solution, which is not as good.
     
  15. harveypooka macrumors 65816

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    #16
    I'm playing the waiting game. I can't see how Sony would be this stupid, I don't know many people who have HD. Mind you, I don't know many people who will spend £500 on a games console...
     
  16. cwright macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    So what does this mean for playing blu-ray movies on the PS3?

    I have a 720p projector... and all blu-ray movies are 1080p. So, when playing blu-ray discs on the PS3, will they be downscaled and presented at 720p with no problem, or will they be presented at 480p, thus defeating the purpose of blu-ray entirely?
     
  17. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #18
    Since Blu-ray movies are encoded at 1080p, they CAN be downscaled to whatever your TV supports... 1080i, 720p, or 480p. This is not a problem.

    The problem comes in when games are encoded at LESS than 1080p... specifically, when they are encoded at 720p only. 720p game + non-720p TV = game runs at 480p.
     
  18. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #19
    good question. Sony have made a real clanger here if thats the case.

     
  19. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #20
  20. Chone macrumors 65816

    Chone

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    #21
    Did you not read what I said? Implementing scaling through the GPU is possible and its very effective as well, like I said, scaling on my 7300GT works better than the built in scaler the computer with that card is hooked up to and is configurable.

    So yeah this might be an issue but it will most likely be fixed and everyone will forget about it soon enough.

    And this is not even that big of an issue to be honest.
     
  21. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #22
    So tell me, how will the PS3 scale efficiently without hardware? Out of curiosity like.
     
  22. greatdevourer thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #23
    They've retracted all statements saying they're going to refirmware it (was all over digg frontpage earlier)
     
  23. Krevnik macrumors 68030

    Krevnik

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    #24
    That depends on HOW you want to scale it. Here's a fairly simple way to do it: After rendering the framebuffer, you move the rendered result (the image) to a texture, and render it to the larger screen size. You let the GPU bilinear or trilinear filter the 'texture' as it stretches it, and this way you leverage the hardware that does exist.

    Otherwise, you are likely taking the image, running it through an SPE or two, using bilinear or bicubic filtering during the stretch, and then placing it back into the framebuffer.

    The /problem/ is that games will likely need patches to do something like this.

    I am curious though, with all the complaining and moaning about this problem, who on this thread would be affected by it? The only displays affected are older CRT and possibly rear-projection TVs that don't accept the 720p signal and upconvert it themselves, so I am actually curious how many here are actually /in/ that boat, or maybe /think/ they are in that boat, when their 1080i CRT actually does take 720p.
     
  24. MistaBungle macrumors 6502a

    MistaBungle

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    #25
    Thankfully I plan on buying a PS3 down the road when things like this will hopefully get sorted out. And even after that, if MGS4 hasn't been released yet then I will continue to wait.
     

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