PS3 Queries & Concerns - (Xbox or Rev NOT Welcome!!!)

Discussion in 'Games' started by MRU, Mar 17, 2006.

  1. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #1
    Getting tired of threads being stolen / taken over with petty squabbles that divert from some sensible thought. So I'm starting a new thread. Please show some maturity (even if your not) and keep the thread on topic...



    --- PS3 WILL SELL ----

    Sony have sold 100 million ps2's If only a third of users go out and upgrade then thats still 33 million sales. Sony are going to do well regardless.

    IF (yes big IF) Ps3 turn's out to be a bit of a turkey, it wont be the Ps3 that will suffer, it will be the ps4. People will be jaded and not bother buying the follow up. That was Segas downfall. After all the DC was a good system, it's a shame it followed a turd...

    From game-spot article. The only thing that worries me is that Sony claim they will produce 1 million units a month and will have shipped 6 million units by March 2007.

    This makes it sound like there's going to be plenty, but it isn't. Look at it from the reverse side. Working backwards then 6 million from march 2007 @ 1 million per month means that they will only have just over 1 million by November. (remember production ramps up so there will be less yield at the start of production. And remember IBM's track record alone)

    Spread over three territories ?? Now way. I feel America & Japan may indeed see the release this year, but still would be surprised if they released in in Europe.

    Also just because they say it will be NOW does not mean it is. After all they did say IT WOULD be released in spring..

    ----- MY CONCERN ------

    Also I'm concerned if the HD isn't supplied. Gamespot were vague and if all games require HD to play are they going to market the machine as a DVD/CD/BluRay DVD player with the option of buying an HD to use it as games?

    Seems strange, but I guess it's possible.

    Sony's marketing can be a little fecked up at times. After all they have been focusing so far (last E3) on how much more power & graphical prowess it would have compared to 360 (yes those fake Killzone vids that they were soon to disclaim as an example of game-play we might see! mmm) , BUT we all know from interviews with developers that give or take the 360 & Ps3 are about the same in power..


    --- CHANGE THE MARKETING ----


    So does this mean a dead end to marketing down that line, and maybe they are going to concentrate on the main difference between it and competitors which is it's Blu Ray player.... If they do decided to market it on that differential, then I can see the HD been released separately OR as an alternative GAMERS bundle.

    So two bundles. A movie Home Entertainment bundle with the ps3 on its own and a GAMERS bundle with the HD included.. This is a very FEASIBLE SNEAKY way of making more money and offsetting some of the guaranteed losses per hardware. It also makes you take the decision and Sony can if criticised come out with some hyperbole about giving it's customers a choice....


    --- Any thought's guy's??
     
  2. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #2
    Personally, I'm thrilled at the prospect of owning this machine. If not alone for some of myu favorite game titles alone.

    I'm wondering what version of Linux will be put on the system. Given that there will be Linux, I can't imagine there NOT being a harddrive installed on the machine (detachable or internal) because Linux is quite larger than the average console interface of a couple of screens with options and what not. I wonder if it's an update to the Linux kit that was sold on a limited basis for the PS 2, or if it will be of another "flavor" entirely?

    I'm not too concerned about the Linux thing, as I'm not a huge Linux fan to begin with and I'm mainly looking for a console where I can play new versions of the MGS, Ace Combat, and Armored Core games (along with all of the other great titles they have).

    My biggest concern is the online abilities. Sure, they say it will have ALL THAT and more of the XBL service, and it will be free, but will it really work? HAve they ironed out the kinks enough from the PS 2 version (AKA, DENY ACCESS TO DIAL UP USERS for games) or will it be filled with lagfests?

    As for Blu-ray I can't wait. The technology by itself is more than impressive. I can fit the space of both of my internal Powermac HD's onto 14 bluray discs, which is essentially 74 DVD's, and 592 CD's... If I did the math right... :confused:
     
  3. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #3

    I agree. If we ignore the Revolution (simply because there are too many blank spots and its almost impossible to predict how consumers will view it), the PS3 is guaranteed to dominate Japan and guaranteed to have a good fight in the United States.

    I don't believe a simultaneous launch with Europe has been attempted; even the Nintendo DS launched in only North America and Japan at the same time (IIRC!).
    That's a confusing point. I've seen several articles that stated that a 60 GB HD was included. GameSpot's says they're not sure if its included or not. However, if you look at Sony's slides, their presentation specificly says,
    "60 GB hard drive - upgradeable". That strongly implies that an upgradeable 60 GB hard drive is included, otherwise it'd just say upgradeable hard drive.


    If I were Sony I'd include a Blu-ray disk with every PS3 containing either a ton of HD movie trailers (to whet people's appetites), or one of Sony's pictures (Spider-Man perhaps?) free, or both- AND like twenty game demos (they'll fit on a Blu-ray disk).

    I think the HD should be included in every one because it adds so much functionality. Without the hard drive it's a Blu-ray player with a graphics card that sits around idling. The hard drive is required for all games. It's required to use any of the online functions like demo downloads and movie trailer downloads. It's required for media streaming and Linux.


    Personally, I can't afford to spend $500+ on a games setup. That's not a PS3 slight. I am appalled by the 360's price as well for a working setup ($400 for the system with actual functionality, $40 for a controller, $60 for a game, $99 for wireless, $50 a year online) and the PS3 looks to be about the same, maybe a tad more for the system but I don't have to pay extra for the wireless so it all events out, and the online is free. (note: please, nobody make this a 360 vs PS3 war)

    I will probably get a PS3, but a year or two down the road. I am simply not spending $500-$600 to play a two-player game, no matter what system. However, I am excited by the prospect of the PS3 just for all the functionality that'll actually work with my setup.

    People are saying who cares about Linux, but these people are massive ignoramuses. Do you have any idea the amount of software available for Linux? ANYTHING that Sony doesn't put in the PS3, will be enabled by programmers later. Even if Sony only supports network storage and not video streaming, guess what, I have VLC on all my computers (Mac, Windows, Linux) and can put that on the PS3 and stream video. I can put VNC on the PS3 and control my PC. I can access all my other computers over the network through the PS3, with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard in my room, over the network. I can store videos from my overcrowded PC to the PS3. I'm not a big media-obsessed person and wouldn't buy a system just for that (or I would have bought a media streamer already), but since I'm already a big fan of the Kingdom Hearts and Burnout series (not available on Nintendo's platform) I would love to get a PS3, and all those bonuses are very nice advantage.

    Linux is *definitely* the most exciting prospect. Media streaming is fine, the 360 has that too (with Windows Media Center which I don't have). Media storage is fine, 360 has that too. But Linux will be awesome.

    However, like I said, a year or two down the road. Maybe more. In addition to being too expensive, I have no HDTV.
     
  4. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #4
    The triple release and multiple SKUs (if true) strike me as mistakes. Even the figures that Sony have released on anticipated production point to danger signs of widespread shortage.

    We can have a discussion on the 360 "hype" and if the shortage/multiple SKUs were a good thing or bad thing, but in the end I think it hurt more than it helped. It really seems like Sony -- after only last week stating that the PS3 would be in the "spring" -- is tripping over themselves to state a date for no other purpose than to hold themselves accountable.

    In short, the 360 launch was something of a debacle and it strikes me as strange that a savvy company like Sony would choose to follow the same path.
     
  5. Motley macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I don't care until they show off an actual box (not a concept design) running games realtime (not renders) with nailed down specs. There's too much hype and not enough concrete info for me, which is curious at this point in the game. Sony has always been full of it when it comes to hyping thier consoles.

    I also don't think most people will be able to get one until many months after the release. It'll make the XBox360 s launch availability look downright generous.

    Currently when it comes to Blu-Ray I think of laserdisks. DVDs had a lot over VHS, I don't see Blu-Ray having the same impact, for most DVDs are good enough.

    People who come here should have a good grasp of expectations versus reality (though you wouldn't know it from the posts immediately after "fun" announcements)

    Then again I tend to error on the side of cynicism. Get let down a lot less.

    I also seem to be in a minority in thinking the Revolution won't be the end all saviour of the video game industry, and I like Nintendo.
     
  6. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #6
    I'm wonder if Sony will show anything at GDC?
     
  7. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #7

    Actually, they HAVE shown real-time demos of various games. MGS 4 was rendered completely in real time when they showed it live, and it was very impressive (better than anything we've seen on the 360 so far.)

    As for a release catastrophy, I think you're wrong. Looking at it this way: The main boards will be Manufactured in June, which gives them almsot 6 months to build completed units and ship them. That's not a bad time line at all, considering they could MFG each board and assemble them inside the cases and test each one... It gives them a LONG time to get these units pumped out.

    Considering MS was still putting units together for the Initial launch, during the initial launch, Sony has more than enough time, I wouldn't worry.

    The official specs have been released, but no info on included software and such...
     
  8. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #8
    I agree with some of the other posters on waiting to see what the system really is. I've been witness to too many Sony marketing hyperbole to believe anything for certain until it's officially shown as Final Hardware. PS2 was supposed to be much more powerful and have many more features then the final product ended up having.

    As for the "real time" demos they showed (such as MGS4) it's important to realize that since final hardware doesn't exist, and Sony has stated final dev kits won't be out until June, that any "real time" footage is theoretical. It's not running on actual PS3 hardware but rather what the developers expect the hardware to be capable of.

    Also, the creator of MGS, Hideo Kojima has stated that the real-time MGS4 demo could have run on the Xbox 360 which I find interesting.

    I look forward to seeing it and I look forward to one day being able to play a game that looks as good as the Killzone video they showed at the PS3 press conference. I don't personally care what system that happens on because it will eventually be capable on all systems either this current next-gen (360/PS3/Rev) or the next...

    PS2 tempted me with being able to play PS1 games but did not succeed to sway into a purchase; PS3 tempts me even more because I missed out on almost every PS2 game, PLUS it can do PS1 as well... but I'm still not sold and probably won't get one. If I do, not for several years.
     
  9. MRU thread starter macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #9
    But MGS4 wasn't a gameplay demo, it was a realitme engine demo more or less what they suspect ps3 to be, and therefore not the perfect example of realtime gameplay (as yet...) We'll have to wait till E3 in May..

    But as I say in my first post, doing the math that they will have 6 million units shipped by March 2007. and will be producing 1 million per month. Subtract 6 months from March 2007 and your left with october/november. That would mean only around 1 million (2 million very tops).....

    There's nothing wrong with over ambition, but I just think come october, were going to have another backtrack statement. At least as far as Europe is concerned...


    Yep that's why I'm wondering if their Marketing dept are going to come out with somthing different, after all Game wise it's not much different to the competition in prowess..

    But can you still get ps1 games??? Really not that bothered in backwards compatability. €500 to play a game that I can play on a system for €30-40 second had... Not worth it..
     
  10. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #10
    Hey MacRumorUser, does your cease fire apply to over-zealous PS3 backers, 'cause I feel the need to counter this comment.
    No one said "catastrophy" so ease up and take off the rose-colored goggles. We're trying to have a civil discussion here and your hyperbole isn't helping.
     
  11. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #11
    I just don't like to have a ton of systems hooked up. I prefer to replace rather then cumulate so BC works for me.

    I was never a fan of Sony systems and honestly didn't consider most of the games very good (even many of the very popular ones). That said, there are a handful of PS1 I love and several PS2 games I almost bought the system for. Xenogears for PS1, and the Xenosaga series on PS2 are some of these.

    I'm also intrigued by the co-op/lan possibilities of the PS3. I mostly by multiplayer games and love to invite a bunch of people to game on the couch and TV. The possibility that I may be able to hook the system up and play multiplayer games on two TVs, possibly even with 8 players would definitely be awesome. That may not end up possible and even if it is it may never happen...
     
  12. MRU thread starter macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #12
    Not worth going there mate! Just post your reasons / thoughts as best you can to counter claim :)

    Fair enough :)
     
  13. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #13
    Onizuka, FYI, while MGS4 was rendered in real time, you must also remember that it was entirely scripted. When it's scripted, the path of objects and all movement has already been determined, and thus it takes FAR less calculations to do things, which is why scripted scenes aren't a good measurement of performance.

    However, the MGS4 demo is not unreasonable. It's basicly the same stuff we've seen on 360 demos with maybe a slightly higher polygon count. Look at some of the bad textures on the wall. Hideo said it could run on the 360.

    In fact, from the reading I've done, the PS3 and 360's GPU's are capable of the exact same hardware functions and effects and rendering techniques, and the only difference is the PS3 has a bit more power (aka, higher polygon count). When the games come out, it's very possible that you won't be able to see a visible difference between the PS3 and 360 (unless you learn to count polygons by hand) graphics.

    Sony wants us to think that the Cell is so powerful that it can do physics calculations far beyond the 360 and thus even though the visuals will only be slightly better it will still be able to do so much more (every leaf in a tornado having its own sound channel, for example). I'm curious to see how much it can do. But don't expect a massive, visible difference between screenshots of 360 and PS3 games.
     
  14. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #14
    Roger that. :) How about the ignore button? ;)
     
  15. DrNeroCF macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Don't tell me that the ps2 and ps3 will sell for the same reasons. The only thing they share is the name. Other than that they are complete opposites. ps3's coming out last, supposed to be the most powerful, has a controller that looks like stupid, and will be really, really expensive.

    Add to that the fact that being the most powerful doesn't really do it much good (all those videos of MGS could have been done on the 360 at a slightly lower resolution), and I don't see this thing getting any mainstream success.

    Oh, and lets not forget that half the people bought the ps2 for dvd playback, which is useful, unlike blu-ray (seriously, explain to the average consumer what the difference is, chances are, they own a vcr/dvd combo machine that's not even hooked up through component video cables.

    Fine, I won't jack your thread and go into detail why the other two systems will be better off, but they're doing everything that the ps1 and ps2 did to succeed save for dvd, and the ps3's doing everything that got Nintendo and M$ fighting for second.
     
  16. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #16
    Here's an interesting article on CNNMoney on the PS3 delay and the potential for Microsoft.
     
  17. MRU thread starter macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #17
    This is very true. This persuades me more than anything that they will release a Gamerpack which includes the 60gb HD (required for gaming) and a seperate movie pack without the HD. Giving away a 60gb HD to people who may never ever use it is cutting their own nose off to spite their face....

    As for format wars.. Agree with you about average joe blog.

    The FORMAT (HDDVD & BluRay) battle hasn't even begun and what is surprising is that were assuming that one of them will be triumphant. Having seen a fairamount of movie trailers in HD 720p & 1080p surprisingly to me it wasnt such a huge leap as Video to DVD was, and persuading the general public to part with $500-800 upwards for a slightly better version might not persuade the majority of buyers. Most homes still dont have a TV set to view HD in yet (excluding us gadget geeks) and persuading average joe that he's going to part with a lot of money on what may seem as unecessary pricey hardware might be a harder task.

    Neither May Win - an example of this recently happening?

    Look at MiniDisc & Philips DCC - both brought out to replace cassette, even though minidisc won the battle, Cassette tape still won that war - Hey overall in fact MP3 won the bigger war - a format no one knew of and one that reduces quality not improves it - the opposite of HD-DVD & BLU-RAY. With more portable video devices coming out, it's decent reduction in quality that's probably going to be the future - not either of the HD DVD formats?

    Added to the fact that China has been given the go ahead to develop a Third HD DVD format, from the DVD Forum, so its even more a shade of grey :confused: :confused:

    Intersting Article Don. Very true at the end about the fact that the first year regardless of the HD format will be rather unimpressive content wise.
     
  18. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #18
    Yea, I remember being an early adopter of the music CD and later the DVD. I had like two DVDs, one of them "Tomorrow Never Dies." Hey, I love the movie, but having a DVD player and little to play on it gets old real quick. ;)

    Interestingly Sony did it again later with the rival format to DVD-Audio (DVD-A), the Super Audio CD (SACD). While dual players from Pioneer are now available, neither format has really caught on. Both formats have superior music quality but an extremely limited selection.

    Curse you Sony and your competing formats, curse you! ;)
     
  19. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

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    #19
    I don't know why, but that picture of Ballmer in Don M.'s CNN money link just cracks me up.

    I think I've watched the Monkey Boy video too many times :D
     
  20. MRU thread starter macrumors demi-god

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    #20
    LOL! We should all get out more ;)
     
  21. XNine macrumors 68040

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    #21
    Interesting post. No, really, I'm not being sarcastic, that is interesting.

    I think the Cell is awesome simply because of the Possibilities in its use of every day life (if they haven't changed since 5 years ago, which is to integrate all entertainment componants together for a harmony within the home).

    I don't believe that the PS3 will be better as far as graphics, what i'm truly concerned about are my favorite titles and NOT having to play them on another system. MGS and the Armored Core series is the main title for the conosle (like Halo and DOA was for Xbox).

    As far as I know, the PS 3 and 360 both run on PowerPC Architectures. I could be wrong, but I thought I had read that.

    I think the prospects of the user-interface, and possibly the usefulness of Linux being a media streamer (more so than what the 360 can do with Macs) more than make up for the negative possibilites.

    As you said though, we'll have to see.
     
  22. Dagless macrumors Core

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    #22
    way to keep the 360 out folks! :)
     
  23. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

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    #23

    The Cell is one PowerPC processor with eight sub-processors optimized for certain types of work attached- the XBox 360 is three of the same PowerPC processors found in the cell with none of the sub-processors.

    I fully agree, I feel that Linux is one of the strongest points on the system as it means third parties and individuals can GREATLY expand on the system's capabilities.

    I'm not really sure what you mean at all about the Cell integrating entertainment components together. When I think about Cell, I think about a processor that is extremely good at non-branch-intensive floating point calculations and thus extremely good with rendering video and graphics, and may be very good for physics once developers get the hang of it, but not good for regular usage. It's just a very well optimized processor that does certain things very well and other things (not necessary to the PS3) very badly.

    Oh yes, I'm sure you want a source for what I said about the graphics.

    http://games.kikizo.com/news/200602/065_p1.asp

    They also note that 1080p support is not mandatory and in all likelyhood most games won't be running at it.
     
  24. MRU thread starter macrumors demi-god

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    #24
    Let alone the dual display idea... I bet that get's dropped. How many people have two HDTV's next to each other?
     
  25. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

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    #25
    Well, there are still uses. I imagine perhaps multiplayer games could run in dual 720i (720p at most, 480p at minimum) on only one system- Linux could use both at 1080p, nice for slideshows or, I dunno, playing a movie while surfing the web.

    And 1080p could run on both screens perhaps if the second screen simply gave stats on an online game, but that would be quite a waste of a second screen.

    I can see dual output uses, but yeah, dual 1080p is rarely going to be used if ever by developers.
     

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