PS3 Spanks the Xbox 360!

Discussion in 'Games' started by d_saum, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. d_saum macrumors 6502

    d_saum

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    Location:
    NC
    #1
    Just found this and thought it was interesting. M$ has been saying that thier 360 is more powerful than the ps3 for whatever "specific" reasons. But this just goes to show that the ps3 is gonna beat the pants off the 360.
    (here you can read about PhysX )

    360 Buckling Under PhysX
    PS3 can handle it; 360 features, however, are limited.
    by Patrick Klepek, 09/01/2005
    50 of 58 users recommend this story.
    As Valve demonstrated with Half-Life 2, true-to-life physics can have a lasting impact on gameplay, and next-generation should prove that notion even more so. Ageia hopes to cash in on this trend with their PhysX line of physic-dedicated accelerator cards, of which BFG Technologies was recently announced as second add-on card partner.
    What's interesting, however, is how this plays out between PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. At the European Game Developers Conference, Extreme Tech noted that the company confirmed plans to offer software-based rendering for single and dual-core PCs, PCs decked out with PhysX chips and software versions for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

    That makes sense to offer development solutions on all platforms, but what's interesting is Ageia's report that Xbox 360 can't handle all of the PhysX's features because of architecture limitations. PhysX offers technologies ranging from physical object interactions to fluid-based particle effects like water and smoke and reportedly only PS3 and PCs will be able to handle all the goods.

    What will Xbox 360 miss out on? PhysX's fluid-based technology. How exactly that impacts Xbox 360's future is for all intents and purposes minimal, but it's strange to see a split between the two machines after such rabid debate over which one had the edge.
     
  2. TheMonarch macrumors 65816

    TheMonarch

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    #2
    Bring on the flames!!!


    Nah, it seems we're more 'N fans here :)
     
  3. d_saum thread starter macrumors 6502

    d_saum

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    #3
    Let me just say this... I currently own all 3 systems and I will be buying the ps3, 360, and the Revolution. Im just glad to see the 360 getting put in its place! ;) M$ talks alot of smack but I love my xbox and I cant wait for the 360. Clearly, the Xbox beat the pants of the PS2 (not in sales, just in performance). This time around, it'll be nice for the PS3 to lead in performance. Hopefully the revolution will be as innovative as they say, and the 360 will have some games that wont be available anywhere else (ie: Halo)
     
  4. Verto macrumors 6502a

    Verto

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    #4
    I think this is all useless debate, and will remain so until both systems are out.

    Oh, and of course we shan't exclude Nintendo, which has a market share....somewhere.
     
  5. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    #5
    And Macs, which is the cool thing. You can already play around with Ageia's Novodex physics engine by downloading the Unity game engine, which is a free trial for 15 days. It's great. Ageia's PhysX cards will be PCI, at least initially, which means you can just plug 'em into Power Macs (and hope for some Mac support, but that seems reasonably likely given that Ageia seems reasonably Mac-friendly).

    Ideally, it would be nice if everyone dumped Havok and started using Novodex instead, thus ending the Havok middleware problem that Macs suffer from currently....

    --Eric
     
  6. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Well, it's not surprising that the later system is the more powerful (if this indeed true.)

    I'm expecting the PS3 to hold at least a slight edge, and perhaps more if it is released at $400 (single model only.)
     
  7. Xeem macrumors 6502a

    Xeem

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    #7
    It won't matter which is more powerful. The PS2 was hardly impressive even upon its debut, but look at its market share.
     
  8. madmaxmedia macrumors 68030

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    #8
    It's not the all-determining factor, but it matters. The XBox got the market share it did partly because it had more powerful hardware.

    For the next generation, it may be flipped (although the difference shouldn't be as great.) The XBox will either take advantage of its early start (like the PS2), or die on the vine like the Dreamcast (where everyone was waiting for the PS2.)

    As the XBox launch approaches, expect massive hype from Sony to try to convince people to wait for the PS3. They will promise better graphics and larger developer support (like they did with the PS2 against the Dreamcast.)

    It will be interesting to see how things play out.
     
  9. applemax macrumors 65816

    applemax

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    Feb 22, 2005
    #9
    OK. Here's a small table for all you PS3 fanboys:

    XBOX360 | PS3
    Best online experience yes | no
    Easy, durable, brilliant controllers yes | no
    Genetically Modified bananas optional | yep!
    memory 512mb shared | 256mb
    video ram 10mb | none
    every game has online features yes | no
    expensive? fairly | tycoons only
    faceplates and customization yes | no
    J Allard yes | no, just that weird Ken!
    hard drive yes | yes, but smaller
    HD streaming yes | no
    music visualizer yes | no
    PGR3 and PDZ!!! yes | no
    mario crap no | no | *yes!
    alfred molina no | yes
    best looking sexy inhail | george foreman grill


    And the winner is : XBOX 360!!!

    btw, ps3 is the worst console ever since dreamcast. GD-ROM ! ha!
     
  10. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #10
    wow. "PS3 Spanks the Xbox 360"... "Is Nintendo Retarded?"... is this a mac forum or a little kiddy playground.

    who really cares if one is more powerful than another? i mean really cares. unless you're one of those strange "HAS 2 BE TEH BEST!1" people.
     
  11. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    Jul 1, 2004
    #11
    Completely agree with you. Everybody has his/her own preference, and they'll buy according to their own taste/budget. I will wait for the Revolution and not regret it one bit, but it would be nice not to be flamed by the Sony/MS guys. If you truly cant decide and are able to afford it, buy 2 or 3 systems. I know a lot of people that will do exactly that
     
  12. Photorun macrumors 65816

    Photorun

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    #12


    Wow, with as much spin you put into your post you should go into politics? The last one had me LMAO, 360 is sexy? Better get to an optometrist, then again, there's no accounting for taste.​
     
  13. kalisphoenix macrumors 65816

    kalisphoenix

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    Jul 26, 2005
    #13
    Jesus's second coming (or first) is probably going to beat the PS3, so --

    wait.

    I don't care.

    Hmm... I feel so much better... like I'm going to get laid in the forseeable future or something...
     
  14. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    Feb 7, 2002
    #14
    True, but my brother's girlfriend's father's sister's uncle in law works on the 360 division unit at Microsoft and he told me Crash Bandicoot 6 runs better and looks better with mega polygons galore.

    It's getting to the point where mods should have to review a new thread on consoles before being allowed to post.

    jon
     
  15. saunders45 macrumors 6502a

    saunders45

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    Jul 29, 2004
    #15
    My "friend" is working at um like, EA on a new LOTR game and like, uh, he ssays that the PS3 is more powerful for physics cuz on the PS3 you can actually control the smoke rings that gandalf makes and um, yeah it kicks the 360's arse......


    yeah, that's pretty much how it all is starting to sound now..... :rolleyes:
     
  16. mkaake macrumors 65816

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    mi
    #16

    Yeah, but my brother's wife's sister's husband's nephew read an internal memo from his mom's boss's sister's work that said that the ps3 will be so powerful that the world will actually end when you turn it on.

    Yeah, that's right - the world will end.

    It's like a little kiddy pissing contest around here lately... I like that idea of mod approval on console posts... it's nuts. They're not even available yet, but people are still having digital pissing contests for numbers provided by marketing on systems that they've never touched or seen in person...
     
  17. wrxguy macrumors 6502a

    wrxguy

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    #17
    FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT o0o0o0o0o0o00o0o0o0o
     
  18. mkaake macrumors 65816

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    #18


    I seriously hope you wrote that as a joke, in some form of sarcasm. Please tell us you did. Please.​
     
  19. saunders45 macrumors 6502a

    saunders45

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    #19
     
  20. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    Location:
    Louisville
    #20
    I got this info from an unofficial xbox site, so take it as such...

    PS3: The cell chip is an odd design. The one PPC chip and 7 SPE's are not eight processors. Only the PPC core can access the 256 MB of GDDR3 system memory. The total bandwidth here is 22.4 GB/s. Thus, each SPE must go through the PPC core to access memory. That leaves a maximum of 3.2 GB/s per SPE (assuming the PPC uses none of the bandwidth). A more realistic scenario would give ~2.8 GB/s of bandwidth to each SPE and the PPC core. This is enough for physics, etc.

    The RSX chip by Nvidia is also very powerful. However, there's a severe bottleneck in the bandwidth. The RSX will have to do Z testing, HDR, alpha blended color rendering, plus anti-aliasing with this bandwidth. Sorry, but it's not enough. The E3 demos were using a dual-cell set up (with extra memory) for the renders. They were only able to do it 1/12 of the speed. Basically the RSX is overkill, as the card will never reach it's peak potential. It's like having a V12 fed by a Civic fuel line.

    360: The memory bandwidth to the 3-core PPC chip is, like Sony's, 22.4 GB/s. Again, this is more than enough. You've got over 7 GB/s per core if all three are being used.

    The ATI chip, has the main system bandwidth if it needs it (just like the PS3), but the 10 MB embedded DRAM gives the gfx chip 256 GB/s of bandwidth! This allows the 360 to do Z testing, HDR, alpha blended color rendering, plus 4x MSanti-aliasing, all without touching the main memory bandwidth. Throw in programmable pipelines, and you've got yourself a V12 engine with a fuel line you could drive through. The 360's gfx bandwidth is way more than PS3's, and the total system bandwidth is about 5 times as much.


    Sony still has some time to fix this, so I suspect they will. The quick explanation is

    PS3: 1 PPC with 7 "daughter" chips, a suped-up 7800, and ~48 GB/s of system bandwidth for all of it. You need 52.8 GB/s of graphics bandwidth just to do color rendering and z testing in the frame buffer. What about HDR and AA? And it does this twice, simultaneously, at 1080p? Hmmm... Something seems off here. The 7800+ could certainly do this, just not in a PS3.

    360: 3-core PPC, an R500, and 278 GB/s of system bandwidth for all of it.

    The PS3, in current form, will never reach its potential. It's crippled from the start.
     
  21. psycho bob macrumors 6502a

    psycho bob

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    Location:
    Leeds, England
    #21
    There are some idiots on here, who cares which is more powerful it is about games. You can buy a car for less than £30,000 which is more powerful then ones costing twice that amount doesn't mean it is any good. It is all about the quality of the product and what you can do with it.

    I bought an orignal Playstation for driving games, Gran Turismo was the best when it was released so I never looked elsewhere later on. I bought a Playstation 2 again for the GT series, other consoles have driving games but PGR2 etc just don't cut for serious driving. I will buy a PS3 for GT5 simple as that.

    Don't care about the machines speed, its price, its looks I just want the best driving experience I can possibly get from a game. Others who like RPG, platform, shoot em'ups will choose accordingly. At the end of the day the PS2 sells becuase of the huge range of games available and because of Sony's image. Only the hard core geeks know about the actual performance figures most buy because they like the games. Nintendo will sell becuase they slash prices; when it was originally launched in the UK it was a disaster soon as they stated they were going to stop it and reduced it to £99 it sells so they continue at that price point. The real battle will be between M$ and Sony. M$ will sell to the techies and those that like the hard core gaming experience and Sony will sell to those more casual gamers and the ones, like me, or are after specific titles and genres.

    All this talk is like measuring your manhood in public, pointless and at the end of the day you just get laughed at :D
     
  22. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #22
    Nice post... :eek: What were the forum rules again??? Flaming people for posting their insights and knowledge regarding a subject is silly. Not everyone here agrees on everything, but we usually have the courtesy and tact to respectfully disagree.

    Anyway, I bought a second PS2 (my first broke) and the driving force pro with 900 degree force feedback for GT4. I love those games too.

    I agree, it's all about the games and the abilties of the system. I've already stated multiple times here that I intend to buy all three systems. My post above was pulled from pro-360 sites, and I stated that explicitly at the top. I can't imagine what "hardcore geeks" are doing on an Apple computer internet message board on a Friday morning. :rolleyes:
     
  23. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #23
    LOL, I think the hype has fried some brains around here.

    Every time new consoles are planned everyone debates the hardware potential of the competing units - but it is pretty irrelevent, at least for a while.

    The first games to be released for each system will not take full advantage of the hardware; many of the games currently being released on Xbox and PS2 don't even use the console hardware to the fullest.

    All three new consoles have an equal potential to be the best right now. The deciding factor will be the game library. Which one has the most popular games? Which one will draw the most developers? All three have good enough hardware to be the best IMHO. The hardware isn't as critical as the software.

    So put your crack pipes down and count to ten before posting something like "XbOx/Ps3/R3VoLuTiOn PwNs JoO n00b LOL!!!1111".


    :rolleyes:
     
  24. psycho bob macrumors 6502a

    psycho bob

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    Location:
    Leeds, England
    #24
    I'm an idiot myself I freely admit it but we have about 100 threads like this and they are all missing the point. It has nothing to do with opinions it is just fan boys of one console or another taking a swipe at others. As for the no "hardcore geeks" on an Apple site at Friday AM remember this place is global (it is late afternoon here in England) and this is a section supposedly dedicated to mac software > games none of which have anything to do with consoles. So it must take pretty hard core game fans to post none stop about consoles that no one has had chance to play on a mac software forum. As for flaming others for posting knowledge and insight that wasn't my intention at all but if you read through this topic for every useful post there will be at least one other that serves to do nothing but antogonise or bring this whole thread down to yet another "my console is better than yours" slanging match.

    My post was not aimed at anyone in particular and if my use of the word idiot offended I do appologise but anyone who sticks there head out into the actual mac sections of the forum will see far worse. I myself have been on the receiving end directly for no real reason by certain gamers around here so it isn't a one way thing.

    As long as the price is right the PS3 will be the best selling console on the market just as both previous generations have been. They don't have to be technically the best, they don't have to play DVD's well, nor have the best online experience, nor even the best graphics they just have to have the best selection of games and be easy to use.
     
  25. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    Louisville
    #25
    I agree. The system with the best games/ease of use will win. If the PS3 is reasonably priced ($400) then they'll sell like gangbusters.

    As far as the console discussion, the subtitle to the "Games" forum is "mac and console games", so these discussions certainly fall within the scope of the forum.
     

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