PS3 to get YellowDog Linux 5.0

Discussion in 'Games' started by XNine, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #1
    That's right. Linux is there. Yellowdog is fully functional. And PPC machines will get the update soon after the PS3 is released. Nay-sayers of Linux on the PS3, you can all start swooning.

    http://www.linuxgames.com/news/feedback.php?identiferID=8720&action=flatview

    Interestingly enough, I worked with one of the original founders of YDL at an Apple Store. About a year younger than myself, but rich. Pretty cool guy to go drinking with (and that's why he worked at Apple, he just needed beer money). Just make sure you don't say "linux sucks" around him... :p
     
  2. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #2
    Was anyone actually saying PS3 would never get Linux? I mean, PS2 has a Linux kit available too... and who cared?

    I don't think it is an issue of whether it will exist, but rather what good it will do.

    Is the full E17-equiped distro of Linux going to be included and/or pre-installed so all a user need do is buy a Keyboard and Mouse? That is very unlikely, but we don't know yet do we?

    In the end it seems more of a uneventful non-issue, imho. Maybe that will help some people feel better about the purchase so they can use it as their primary computer and never burn a CD/DVD/BD disc again (as it has no burner capabilities), and maybe it will single-handedly make Linux a mass-market consumer OS that will rival Mac OS and Windows... then again, maybe no one will even care, and 90% of PS3 owners won't even know it exists... and that seems a lot more likely.
     
  3. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #3
    This leads me to believe that it won't be actually pre-installed, but will have to be downloaded, burned and installed.

    Cool for the PS3, though.
     
  4. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #4
    YES. OH YES.

    Now i can spend 600$ without feeling guilty about it.

    Thank you for posting this, jdechko, you just made my day a little brighter :D
     
  5. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #5
    Hey, don't thank me. Thank Onizuka. He was the one who posted the article link. I just copied the relevant part. :D
     
  6. Supa_Fly macrumors 68030

    Supa_Fly

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    #6
    Ydl!

    I've been following Yellow Dog Linux for quite some time now. I have NO IDEA how to use it, but I like its many features like MAC OS X in emulation (I think its emulation) within YDL on PPC Macs.

    - It would be INCREDIBLE for them to port to the Intel CPU. As I'd look to use THIS linux than anything else.

    > They even sell PPC Mac's straight from Apple with YDL installed. Great relationship, especially since Apple can ship them ALL remaining PPC machines that where in stock at their stores.

    > I still dont see how Linux can compete with Windows & Mac OS X for the average user on the desktop. I'm well aware of its strengths on Servers, but desktop; eeeh?!

    PS what was that coders name, op?!
     
  7. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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  8. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #8
    You are not getting the picture right.

    The point of having linux on the PS3 is not to replace the use of a personal computer to browse the internet and stuff like that.
    The PS3 will never be a mac/pc replacement, whatever the Sony marketing people say.

    The real power of linux on PS3 is about having new applications developed for the PS3 and the ability to compile existing linux programs. You can have so much more functionality.

    Let's say you want to see an h.264 ripped movie on your big screen. You can do that with VLC for linux, you can even directly stream it from another machine in your house, hell even wirelessly if you like.

    Or let's say you are into retro-gaming. You can download emulators for any kind of platform and they will all run at blazing speed and you could play them using the PS3 controller for no added price.

    Or let's say you want to help the medical research, you can run the client of the folding at home project when you are not playing.

    And those are just a few. The possibilities are endless and everyone interested in programming can contribute to the software library since all the essential programming tools are free!


    And one last thing: the PS2 linux kit never had a chance because:
    1) The PS2 didn't ship with an hard drive. You had to buy an overpriced add-on hard drive to use it.
    2) The PS2 was too weak for multimedia apps running on linux. A 300Mhz processor and 32MB of ram, anything other than a text editor or a simple web browser were out of range on such a machine.

    The PS3 linux functionality could really become the top reason to own a PS3 (for me it already is).

    Forget about blue-ray movies, forget about 1080p games, forget about all the hype. Linux will be the real groundbreaking feature of the PS3.
     
  9. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #9
    Going on that they are not saying it will be pre-installed or available when you turn your ps3 on straight away - but more than likely avaialable stand alone dvd distribution with which you install onto the HD or run directly from the disc...
     
  10. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #10
    I hear what you are saying, but in the end you seem to describe everything you can already do with any personal computer, running Linux or not.

    Add to that your reasons for PS2 Linux failing. The machine is custom built and performs far better then a standard X86 300MHz machine, and if you total the cost of the system and the "overpriced" harddrive it would still have been cheaper than a PS3.

    Linux has yet to be a really "groundbreaking feature" for any computer platform and it is highly unlikely PS3 will change that. Yes, it has been great for servers, but hardly groundbreaking. Unix, BSD, etc all compete just fine with linux in the server space.

    So in the end, if you are discussing PS3+Linux and try to justify it outside of Blu-ray and/or Gaming all you are doing is talking about a limited computer. Limited in use, function, upgradability, and practical application. In that space, even the Apple iTV outclasses that combination when considered for specific uses such as a media center.
     
  11. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #11
    Yep, but I don't see a problem with that. If something's good, people get to know about it, it doesn't matter if it's included or not when you buy the machine as long as installing it later won't be a painful process.

    And that will definitely not be the case since everybody has the same exact hardware, there will be no driver configurations and settings to do.

    So you basically get linux flexibility without having to deal with drivers and configurations. Awesome.
     
  12. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #12
    Oh I agree I was just pointing out that fact. Oni's original post and title was a little misleading
    leading you to think it's there from the off as Sony previously stated it would come pre-installed on every PS3.


    I'm wondering how they plan to distribute it though, maybe as a disc in the machine packaging itself ? Or how it boots, do you get a bootcamp loading screen, or will it only ever run off the disc in order to start the process ? Still so many questions, but at least it's a move in the right direction at least...

    Now if only Sony hadnt delayed my purchase till March :(
     
  13. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #13
    i don't know if it is going to draw enough homebrew into.. after all we don't know if there will be freely available libraries/apis to use all features

    same for hardware with all that copy protection stuff in the hardware ..
     
  14. DougTheImpaler macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    This is actually an included package called Mac on Linux (http://www.maconlinux.org/) which can be included in any PPC Linux distro, and may be in others - not sure. At any rate, it's for PPC Linux because it's like Wine on x86 Linux - it uses direct execution of code, not emulation. Therefore, porting to x86 would result in CPU emulation, which is slower. It'd be like running SheepShaver in OS X on your Intel Mac, which is actually not terrible since now it has a GUI app for setup.
     
  15. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #15
    Nope, you are still not getting the point.

    Some things are better in front of a pc (internet browsing, checking email etc) while some other things are better experienced in the living room (watching movies, listening to music on your big fat hi-fi system, etc..).

    The PS2 hardware is weak for normal computing and multimedia apps, there is no way around that. Yes, i know perfectly what the PS2 architecture is capable of in terms of gaming, but the general purpose power of the machine is really really low. The PS2 processor is as weak in that area as an 8 year old x86 or PPC processor.
    And what about 32MB of ram? What can you really do today with 32MB of ram? What kind of operating system do you expect to run well on 32MB of ram? System 7? And what about other apps running? Do you realize how much ram does it take to run just iTunes on your mac?

    About linux not being popular right now: it's all about ease of configuration. Really, think about it. The real reason why linux is not popular is because it takes a "computer genius" to install it and configure it properly.

    And even for power users like me for example, linux is not convenient because you are spending most of your time trying to keep everything updated and working on your custom hardware. Drivers issues, things that stop working when you update them, i could go on for hours.

    For casual people, linux is too much of an headache. Linux right now is for big enterprises and for geeks only.

    Linux on the PS3 can be a completely different experience. Everything works because everybody has the same hardware. No configurations, no drivers to install, no nothing. Get the installation disk and you are ready to go. That is why it's something the average computer user would love to use and why linux on the PS3 has the potential of becoming the best feature of the console.
     
  16. 2nyRiggz macrumors 603

    2nyRiggz

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    #16
    This is good news. I really don't care if it is preinstalled into the system...I think I can find my way around the system to install it myself.



    Bless
     
  17. DougTheImpaler macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    I'm a huge 360 fan, but the above is very true for PS3. It won't do *me* any good because my computer of choice is the Mac. But for people who both want a computer and a next gen console, the $600 PS3 may actually be the *cheapest* way to do both. The only thing that comes close is the Wii plus either a used Mac or a super-low budget PC.

    For me it's a non-starter, and for many in this forum, it's probably a non-starter. But for someone who wants to get a high-end console and a reasonable internet-capable computer that they can also write papers, use multimedia stuff (as much exists on Linux), etc., this could be great.
     
  18. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #18
    general purpose ram on the ps3: 256 mb (256 mb ram are for the RSX) ever tried running a general purpose linux with that much memory ?

    who additionally impresses customers ?

    and all with a cpu designed for streaming/video decompression/ floating point instructions/vector calculation


    unless the linux system is completely tailored to the hardware (which it wont since it also made to run on other ppc processors) it will very likely run quite slow/with lots of paging (anybody knows what harddrive is in the ps3 in terms of rpm ? )
     
  19. bmb012 macrumors 6502

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    #19
    So, someone could write a program for this cell processor to, oh, say, crunch HD video (or anything CPU intensive) on a network of ps3s, and a small development house could license this software, buy a few ps3s for well under the price of the actual hardware, and have a cluster of cell processors crunching large amounts of information.

    4 ps3s, that's over 20 CPUs mashing through numbers at the price of a cheap iMac... Any video editors out there interested?
     
  20. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #20
    256MB of ram is fine. It doesn't need to be a multitasking monster anyway. That's a job for your mac/pc.

    And by the way, did you know how much ram a powermac G5 dual 1.8Ghz shipped with? Exactly, 256MB. Would you call that a weak machine? Would you say Mac OS X panther didn't impress its customers?

    And about the cell processor: did you know that the main cpu is derived from the PPC 970 (aka G5)?

    I'd say expect G5-like speed for general purpose computing. Which is not bad when you consider that the PS3 costs the same price of the cheaper mac mini configuration. And it plays blue-ray movies. And it has a nvidia RSX (think geforce 7800gtx) that gets fully exploited for games.

    The deal of the century.

    Edit: sorry if i get a bit carried away, i was really looking forward to this news. It's not that i think it will be something that will change the world, because it obviously won't, but i get a little crazy when people dismiss such a great feature as a gimmick nobody will use. I think it really has some great potential, it won't change the world, but it will change my living room for sure.
     
  21. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #21
    no it didnt it shipped with 512mb. I bought one back in Jan 2004 ;)

    Memory had to work in pairs on the Dual machine and it had 2x256 in it.
     
  22. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #22
    then what is the advantage of a ps3 with linux if you can just use a pc ? (you get pcs with more than 256 ram for less than the ps3 ;) )

    i would call it an idiotic/laughable machine .. in fact i did when it was released here on this boards ... heck i remember how i called the emac with 128 mb as ridiculous here on MR and got flamed for it ;)


    general purpose wise the G5 was hardly a beast compared to the x86 of its time ;) (and the cell is actually more stripped down general purpose wise since all those vector units had to fit in)
    well it might not play blue ray under linux ;) and getting graphics driver to run under

    well and if it runs like molasses you can't say you weren't warned ;)

    256mb simply isn't enough for "reasonable" desktop fooling around under linux (i know after all since i'm using fedora core daily on which YDL is based according to wikipedia...)
     
  23. MS bulldog macrumors regular

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    #23
    riiight, cause sony has such a "homebrew friendly" track record. they cockblock the psp homebrew attempts at ever corner. why would they do a complete 180 and open the system up to emulation and homegrown apps?

    summary: i'll believe it when i see it...just like their free service being comparable to xblive.
     
  24. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #24
    Yeah sorry, i should have done more research on that. You got it before i did therefore it wasn't the low end model and it had 512MB of ram.
    But when the line-up was dual 1.8, dual 2.0, dual 2.5 the 1.8 had 256MB of ram ( 2 x 128MB ).

    Anyway, you got my point.
     
  25. Revlimit Punk macrumors regular

    Revlimit Punk

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    #25
    The advantage is that you also get a blue-ray drive, wifi, bluetooth, a powerful graphic processor all in a shiny package that looks like it belongs in your living room instead of a big, noisy, grey, ugly pc.

    I don't agree at all. If that powermac was such idiotic machine, then what the G4 mini was like? Are you saying half of the apple macintosh lineup was idiotic?
    And even if that was the case, as i said, the PS3 is NOT a replacement for your mac/pc. Linux is about extending the machine functionality, not turning it in your daily workhorse.

    So what? Why would you want to play a blue-ray movie inside linux when you can watch it through the PS3 operating system? And who cares if the graphic processor won't run at the maximum speed in linux when you have an awesome PS3 software library? As i said, linux will extend the functionality of the console not replace the stuff it already does.

    And the cell will do fine, it's not a quad xeon or anything like that, but it's far, far, from being weak for general purpose computing.


    I've seen linux run on much lesser hardware at acceptable speeds. Performance will be fine with the operating system plus a couple of apps open. Of course don't expect to have 15 apps open at the same time, that would be foolish.
     

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