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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Apr 14, 2004.
this is ominous...
reminds me of when a company decides to refocus on its core business
Because we allknow how appeasment works right Europe?
I wonder about France, they aren't even letting Muslims where head scarves in school, how do they get off the hook. Of course they will be the first to surrender...
Krizoitz, did you know that Turkey has even stricter policies about head scarves than France?
Anyway, Bin Laden is trying to drive Europe and North-America apart. Good cooperation between the two is not in his best interest. And if you look at some of the anti-france sentiments still very alive, he might succeed?
here is the actual text of his speech.
Its powerful stuff and in many places he has points, but I just can't go beyond what he is willing to do and has done to get his points across. And that makes me question his motives and wonder if he really means all this or is it just an evil plot to get us all on his side. As long as he doesn't then turn to his Muslim friends and call us all evil scum infidels.
Thats my point I think. I jsut wish he would ocme out and say what it is he wanted truthfully. If he really wants world peace then in some ways has some good ideas but in other ways he's way out there. But anyway history can be the only judge.
I would be interested to hear what noam chomsky has to say about this letter.
thanks for posting the text to his speech ..very interresting read..
Interesting indeed. But his message is very limited, stop interfering or be attacked. I haven't seen any evidence of him fighting for better rights for the people he claims he's defending. Has he done anything to stop Saddam or the Taliban (muslims) supressing "his" people? He speaks as though peace is what he wants, but he hasn't really acted that way..
He seems to only fight when it's non-muslims interfering with muslim affairs, such as in Palistina
I remember high school bully's pay me your lunch money and I won't beat you up anymore.
But thats not the point, there is a reason why this guy is doing what he is doing. Nobody is talking about that, nobody is asking themselves, wait, maybe we should at least here what he has to say seeing as he's shouting pretty ****ing loud. It is a direct result of us westerners ****ed up foreign policy that he is doing these things. Yeah his actions are inexcusable, but people have to realise that you can't go round screwing everyone in the ass and not get somebody at least trying to stick up for themselves. To use your bully analogy, its like the 30 year old loser going on a rampage tracking down all the guys who did bad things to him at school and killing them.
Why not take this for what it is? A desperate attempt to divide the Western World because he and his cronies are LOOSING the war.
He ran a plan into the World trade center I no longer care why he is doing anything. He cannot be allowed to win using terrorism as a weapon we cannot allow the world at large to think that terrorism is a viable means of winning an argument battel or getting help from anyone else. He must lose and he must lose big time to show that you don't mess with us ever.
I don't think there is any room for discussion with OBL and i doubt anybody in europe is interested anyway. Unless he turns himself in and stands trial.
as much as i hate being in iraq, we can't just leave now.
of course the "rules" of the occupation should be different, and this doesn't mean other issues shouldn't be addressed, but OBL is not a viable counterpart for any talks. whatever "reasons" he had, hew blew his credibility with his actions. Unfortunately, our credibility is not much higher after iraq.
actually, i think it's pretty clever. already, italy, the UK, france, germany and an EU rep have said "no" to negotiating w/ UBL; he had to have expected this.
now -- AQ probably has a number of european attacks lined up. once they start, the populace is going to start wondering whether saying "no" was a good idea after all. _that_ is going to cause internal problems in europe, weaking resolve. would that not be a victory for UBL?
more to the point -- if he offered it to the US ("remove all your troops from the middle east and drop support for israel"), of course the answer would be no. but if that no was followed by 9/11 the sequel, how many people would start asking themselves if support for israel was really worth it?
As much as I agree that terrorism shouldn't be rewarded, (btw that rant was more referring to terrorism and its causes in general as opposed to OBL) I do think that there is a reason it happens that is more complex than, they are just pure evil. But I can't help be a little disturbed about you last sentence though. If that's the message we need to put out to everyone, then shouldn't we be following our own example and not messing with them EVER, but wait we have, and we've spent the last century doing exactly that! Terrorism is never gonna stop, as long as we are using violence as well. Yes its a tricky catch 22 but I'd like at least some people in some governments to acknowledge that and then we can all put our best minds into working out this catch 22.
And you profess to not care why he is doing anything. What about the people on the other side, they see us invading their country, why should we not encourage them to take that attitude towards us? Seems only fair when I look at it through your goggles! 3,000 dead innocents in WTC, how many thousands of dead innocents in Iraq? 10, 30, 50?
It's practically a textbook case of blackmail.
There isn't any "easy" way to deal with it.