Putting lipstick on Microsoft’s pigs

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. macrumors bot

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    #1
  2. macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

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    #2
    Yawn...
    How many times can the same article be written?
     
  3. macrumors G4

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    #3
    There may have been other articles that made the same point. However, this is the first that I have seen that includes that dramatic graph showing the number of switchers. Read it and weep.
     
  4. macrumors 68000

    BongoBanger

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    #4
    Sure. 14 million sales over 5 years as opposed to the billion or so PCs sold over that period. They must be worried.

    Silly article is silly.
     
  5. macrumors G4

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    #5
    Yes, they are.
     
  6. macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #6
    yeah, 1% over 5 years, MS has...25 years before it loses 5%? and thats assuming linear extrapolation.

    worry? how about be honest for a change?
     
  7. macrumors 6502

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    LOL! You're making a huge assumption. Linear is not the way business works. Things tend to start slow and then build exponentially. It happens when things take off, like with the iPod, and when they fail, like with gas guzzling SUVs. Microsoft is at the beginning of a downward trend and they're reacting as if it is just a temporary glitch. That's what GM did when their gas guzzlers first showed signs of weakening sales.
     
  8. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #8
    Don't kid yourself. If you think Microsoft isn't worried about their products that are taking a beating from Apple (Zune, Msft. Mobile) and don't want in on a piece of the iTunes pie, you're delusional. If they're not worried, why the Laptop Hunters ads or why does Balmer mention Apple a lot?

    A whole generation is walking around with iPods and iPhones, use iTunes, buy their music and media from Apple and are buying Macs in increasing numbers. I bet they buy more Macs when they are older and can more likely afford them. This is not a battle over the OS, it's a battle over mindshare.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

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    #9
    You're not understanding the difference between quality sales and quantity of sales.
    Maybe this will make it clear:
    Would you rather sell billions of candy bars at a few cents profit each, or millions of cars at thousands of dollars profit each?

    1,000,000,000 X .01 = $10,000,000 profit

    1,000,000 X 1,000 = $1,000,000,000 profit
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    NoSmokingBandit

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    #10
    Way to skew the comparison. No way apple makes 100,000 times the profit a pc makes. Try using something even remotely comparable next time.
     
  11. macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #11
    lol, what tells you exponential is the way business works?

    last time I checked, firefox stays at 20-25% forever.
     
  12. macrumors 68000

    BongoBanger

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    #12
    And?

    Concerned maybe. I doubt they're worried that Apple will ever get a significant global market share.
     
  13. macrumors 6502

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    #13
    Sheesh! It was an example to demonstrate the concept to some one who obviously was not aware of it, not a comparison of one company versus another.
     
  14. macrumors 6502

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    #14
    You've missed it completely. Just a few years ago, IE had over 90% of the browser market. Today, it's around 60% and dropping like a stone.
    And if you don't understand the implications, I can't help you.

    That's because it's too late to start worrying about that!
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    BongoBanger

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    #15
    No, seriously. What does the price of the product have to do with its market share. Aside from making Apple pots of cash which we all know that they do?

    What with Mac sales broadly flattening you mean?

    Doubt it.
     
  16. macrumors 6502

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    :rolleyes:
    See, in business, the goal is to make money. Selling fewer widgets and making more money per is the preferred way to do it because there is lower risk as well as lower costs.

    Once again, you've got it completely backwards. The real question is, what does market share have to do with the health of a company? Answer: little to none. Profitability and customer satisfaction are what matters. Good profitability with poor customer satisfaction means future profits are in danger. Good profitability with good customer satisfaction is where you want to be, and where Apple has been for a long time now. Microsoft has had good profitability and lousy customer satisfaction (outside of IT departments) and it's starting to cost them profits.

    Are you a Republican? You can't just make stuff up like they do:
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/150185-apple-strong-mac-sales-reported
    And this in a poor economy where PC makers are suffering low sales and abysmal profits or losses!
     
  17. macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

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    #17
    Since the article nor the graph defines what a "switcher" constitutes it's kind of hard to tell what the graph actually means. Are they a switcher if they still run Windows on the Mac? What does "installed base" really mean? Are they a switcher if they still have a PC?

    Since you like to look at "dramatic" graphs here's another one for you. Read it and weep. :rolleyes:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #18
    do any regression and show me a exponential change please.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Apparently, you are a Democrat because you have no clue about business.

    The "preferred" way is NOT to sell fewer widgets at a higher profit per sale. No, the preferred way to so sell MORE widgets at a higher profit per sale. I will gladly sell a million widgets at 1 cent profit per and you can sell your 20 widgets $100 profit per.

    Customer satisfaction and sales are not exclusive of each other. Companies with poor customer satisfaction will gradually lose market share and profit only when a comparable product and price point enters into the equation. The truth is Apple and Microsoft cater to two different crowds. MS goes after the frugal, low spender and the gal who wants to be with the crowd (in addition to businesses). Apple goes after people who want higher quality and are willing to pay for it. The bottom line is, Microsoft customer service can totally blow chunks and Windows can be the worse OS ever, but until something comes along in a similar price range, they will continue to sell like crazy.

    If Wendys was the only fast food place in town and they totally stunk, do you think the woman who visits Wendys 3 times a week would suddenly get her meals from Red Lobster? No, she would keep eating the rotten Wendys food, or else go hungry. Wendys would dominate until a comparably priced alternative came along.

    Market share and saturation is critical to any business. Why do you think mega companies like Pepsi and McDonald's run ads all over the place? Because they like throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars a year on advertising? Why do you think you can feed a small horse at Taco Bell for under $7? Why do you think Walmart is the #1 retail chain in the universe? It isn't because they are trying to maximize profit off of each sale. It is because they are trying to maximize total profit, and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

    It all depends on your target consumer, and the real key to being a successful business to find the price balance. Here is a little business 101 for you: COMPANIES DON'T SET PRICES. The market (i.e., your customer base) sets prices.

    At least until your messiah takes control of them all.
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    BongoBanger

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    #20
    Absolutely and already acknowledged. What does that have to do with market share though?

    *Looks at Microsoft's revenues and profits"

    Quite a lot apparently.

    No, I'm British. You do realise that politics and economics aren't the same thing though?

    Keep going. This is fascinating in a train wreck kind of way.
     
  21. macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #21
    Because for the past two years they've sold 2 cent disks with an alpha OS on them.
     
  22. macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #22
    if u are calling vista an alpha OS, then OSX isn't far into beta neither.

    Lets be real here. just pure bashing with exaggerated expression doesn't do just to anything.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    That is really stupid. How can you compare Vista, the world's worst OS to date after Windows ME with Leopard (OR Tiger)?

    Vista was a mistake. Even the biggest Windows fanboys should be able to accept it. In fact, it's better to ignore it and just pretend that it never existed, that Microsoft actually took 7 years to develop an OS which really has improvements over the previous version.
     
  24. macrumors 6502a

    Lixivial

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    #24
    It'll continue to be written for as long as people view choice of software as a lifestyle choice -- something which defines who they are. It generates the same flame-bait-over-emotional arguments over and over again, generating hits and continuing the cycle.

    Mayhaps it's time for a slight addition to that old adage about religion and politics.
     
  25. macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Once again, wrong question. What does market share have to do with anything?
    Look at your own graph! Look at the curve for IE, then flip it upside down and you have the growth of IE's competitors. They're at the beginning of an exponential rise, which is why MS is now suddenly interested in adhering to web standards. They want to stop the upcoming landslide of web sites that refuse to work with IE.

    Tell that to all the low profit PC makers who are struggling to survive, or the many that have died. They'd kill to have Apple's profitability, but they can't do it. It's not their choice to try to make profits by selling more. They can only go for volume because they can't differentiate themselves from the crowd.

    Because they sell commodity items. There's not real difference between them and their competition, so all they have in their arsenal is marketing and volume. You can't compare them to BMW, Apple, etc.

    Have you been sleeping for the last 8 years??? Don't you remember Enron or any of the other multitude of scandals? They were about price fixing. You sound like you think we've had a free market, but the reality is that we haven't. Large corporations price fix all the time, and during the Bush administration they had free reign to do it. Microsoft has been one of the worst offenders, using their OS monopoly in the enterprise to crush innovative small competitors. They're a one trick pony whose one trick is losing its luster.
     

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