Random Complaint

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jamesmcd, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. jamesmcd macrumors 6502a

    jamesmcd

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #1
    Hey all.

    I am a university student and IS tutor in NZ, and I have always had a big problem with the 'culture' (so-to-speak) of most of the Asian students (mainly Chinese) when it comes to assignments and essays.

    Allow me to explain...

    For years now, I have had to work closely with many Chinese students both in group work (part of the curriculum of the paper), and also in tutorials. Mostly, they use me to check through their work to fix the English before handing in group assignments.

    This culture which I am speaking of, is that every single, I repeat, every single Chinese student I have worked with while at University has tried to plagiarize in their assignments. As a student, it is annoying as I have to get them to cite everything or do it myself. As a tutor, I not only have to fail them for that assignment, but stick it on their record, report to the higher authority etc.

    As several tutors have suggested in the past (we meet often), they do it perhaps because their English isn't good enough to hand in something that is completely their own work. We note however, that there are 3rd year students (living in NZ for 3 years!) that still cannot write decent English.

    Our University (and many others in NZ) use turnitin.com to check for plagiarism, however sometimes it's just so obvious. For instance, half of the essay will be highly ambiguous, unreadable English, and the other half will be absolutely perfect English. You don't have to be a genius to work it out. Stick any of the good English into Google/TurnItIn, and you guessed it, someone else's work.

    My Father who is actually a University lecturer had to just recently fail a masters student because his entire thesis was copied! The document came back from TII completely marked red!!

    I don't really have much of a question here, just felt like letting this out. Are there any other lecturers, Uni students or tutors from outside NZ who also see this problem?

    - J
     
  2. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #2
    Interesting stuff. Trying my hardest not to generalise, but perhaps it has something to do with the pressures from home to do well, in addition to the limited English abilities. A lot of my friends who aren't from Australia are under far more pressure than myself to do well. It's like they have something to prove, poor buggers.

    I can't imagine studying at a tertiary level in a different language. I suck at stuff enough as it is, without having to suck in Spanish or something foreign. :eek:
     
  3. erickkoch macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    #3
    I find this situation odd. I was a science major and most of my classmates were Asian, as are most of my friends and coworkers, I'm white. I don't recall any of them ever plagiarizing anything (or maybe they didn't get caught?). I had a few classmates that got caught cheating one way or another but they weren't Asian. I would imagine that any foreign university student with a poor command of English might be tempted to plagerize, I don't see that an Asian student would be more prone to it than anyone else.
     
  4. jamesmcd thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jamesmcd

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #4
    I think a reason that the Chinese are the worst (according to statistics), is perhaps that going from Chinese to learning English must be by far the hardest transition. All the european students here have a perfect command of English. The Koreans and Japanese aren't too bad, but the Chinese are simply terrible.

    In fact in many of my groups, the Chinese simply did not participate, and I even remember one trying to bribe me to state on the peer review sheet that he did work. I of course didn't accept the bribe, and wrote truthfully. This was in my first year of Uni.

    Anyway, this will be my final post for the time being, as I am on exceptionally poor inetrnet at the moment.
     
  5. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #5

    I think that's a given. It's just that the majority of the international contingent in New Zealand universities happen to be Asian. It's the same in Australia.

    Having said that, I haven't noticed a trend in plagiarism for international students but as a student, I probably wouldn't.
     
  6. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    #6
    Any university student who's insecure about their command of English will be more likely to plagiarize (foreign born or no). Any student who feels themself falling behind the competitive curve will be more likely to plagiarize. Any student who feels they can't meet a deadline will be more likely to plagiarize.

    To the OP (when you get back on the web): I'd be interested to see the statistics you reference? How clearly are your university's plagiarism policies explained to international students? Do you find this happening across the international student body as a whole, or within one or two given departments? Do different departments have different expectations/enforcement re: plagiarism? I'm full of questions.
     
  7. rtharper macrumors regular

    rtharper

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    #7
    I've seen the same thing from a different ethnic group, Indians (to clarify, as in those from India, not Native Americans). A substantial number of Indians come to my university for undergraduate, and even more for graduate school. They will do any sort of collaboration, downloading source code off the Internet, etc. to get their project done. A lot of them do suffer from the language barrier to a certain extent, but I think by the time they improve their command of the English language enough to feel more comfortable getting help, etc., it has become a habit for them anyway.

    The worst part? THEY RARELY GET CAUGHT!
     
  8. devilot Moderator emeritus

    devilot

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    #8
    Huh. And there are those who have been born and raised in English speaking countries who still can't read, write, or speak proper English. So I fail to see how three measly years can even begin to account for a "lifetime" of exposure and experience.

    Interestingly, the Asian students I have grown up and around do much better than their non-Asian counterparts. Case in point, taking a peek into every AP (Advanced Placement) course at my high school-- there were very very very few non-Asians in ANY of the classes.

    And like thedude110, I would also like to see the statistics you referred to in your previous post (that Chinese students are "the worst").
     
  9. haleyvan macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    #9
    at my university all the indian students cheat - they will have one person study for a test and they will all copy off each other blatantly. or they'll have a totally different person go into their class and take the test for them. ridiculous.
     
  10. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #10
    If there is anything cultural to Chinese students plagiarising, could it be related to the fact that China is one of the world's biggest, if not the biggest, pirating countries, whether it's DVDs, clothing or electronics?

    Perhaps it's becoming ingrained in their culture that the fastest, easiest way to get what you want is to rip it off and present it as your own.

    That's a gross generalization, of course, but like I said, the country is known the world over for piracy, and plagiarism ain't that big a leap.
     
  11. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    #11
    sadly I see this as well, in a recent project I had some students do a part of it and well it was right out of the text ... the text the teacher wrote! WTF I think thats the EASIEST WAY TO GET CAUGHT

    We didn't get to sleep that night re-writing it and we gave him very poor evals but it didn't do anything to his grade.
     
  12. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Washington D.C
    #12
    I hate plagiarism with a passion..Asian, European, Americans, Africans, Austrailians...its wrong for all of them. If you can't do the work, or are to lazy to, its clear you shouldn't be there. Goes for cheating too...

    In my school I have caught plagiarism in my school, with a peer...I flipped out at her, and told her its not happen..She redid the work. She wasn't Asian, she was North American.

    I think it might have to do with not being good with English(in the OP's case) Not because Asians are lazy, or cheat alot. Because If I had to do something in a forgein language, I'd fail..unless in a basic Spanish Class
     
  13. weg macrumors 6502a

    weg

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Location:
    nj
    #13
    On the contrary.. I've been impressed by most of the (Indian) Indians I had the chance to work with so far.. the one Chinese we have in our group does not only speak fluently English but also German.
     
  14. Leareth macrumors 68000

    Leareth

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver
    #14
    Well at my school in the last academic year there were 56 people before the Senate on Academic Dishonesty, 47 of them were international students. :rolleyes: make of that what you will.

    I have noticed in the last couple of years that more and more students are using the "cut and paste" approach to essay writing, sometimes they don't even bother to change the font to match. :eek:
     
  15. SamIchi macrumors 68030

    SamIchi

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    #15
    LOL :D I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.
     
  16. technicolor macrumors 68000

    technicolor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Location:
    ><><><><
    #16
    This is thread is turning into a racial mess.

    Thomas Veil you have some nerve.:mad:
     

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