Real Film Question

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Abraxsis, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. Abraxsis macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #1
    OK, I have a question regarding real honest to god analog negatives ...

    This pause is to allow those of you who wish to gasp and pfft and whatnot to do so. :p

    ... OK. I'm into the Medium Format and I'm currently researching a negative scanner. What I'm wondering is there anyway to scan the pics I already took without a special scanner? Is it just the matter of the software and the backlighting? This initial scan doesn't have to be 4000 DPI or anything print quality, just enough to let me see the colors, composition, and such on my screen. Anyone have any special tricks up your sleeves?
     
  2. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

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    Jul 8, 2005
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    Santa Rosa, California
    #2
    From what I know and use.....

    hey,

    I use a 4x5 scanner all the time for my sinar. It's a little more sophisticated but it's a scanner and a film scanner in one. From what I've read about scanning you'll need to (if you get/have a scanner) is a positive setting for scanning it in. Every time I messed up and left it on negative/scan bed setting the colors got all crazy.

    Now are you asking about scanners or are you asking about how to "scan" it without a scanner?

    ~Crawn

    p.s. I don't think you can "scan" them in with anything less than a scanner but I don't know... I always just used the film scanner.
     
  3. mcarnes macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

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    USA! USA!
    #3
    Just get one of the Epson flatbeds that handles trannies/negs. This will be more than adequte for what you describe.
     
  4. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

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    #4
    exactly what I have, I couldn't remember what brand it was until you posted this! lol!
     
  5. mcarnes macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

    Joined:
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    #5
    :D Keep shooting with the Sinar. I had a Toyo 45AII myself once upon a time. I miss those days. Bah, now everyone is a photographer...
     
  6. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
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    Santa Rosa, California
    #6
    Lol, I know what you mean, but I'm not just a guy that picked up a Sinar, Nikon, Canon, etc. and took a class on rule of thirds and such. (No offense anyone! It's cool that you have photography as a hobby but I'm a professional photographer with a degree to prove it!) Well I'm as much as a 22 year old can be but still, that piece of paper (and over 50,000 in school tuition) shows my employers I'm different from the rest.

    I've gone through 2 years of non-stop photography school and another two years of business practices through another college in my area.

    Rant: The worst part about being in photography school is that you, and you alone, are the art director, set coordinator, prop master, assistants, and the photographer! :End Rant:

    ~Crawn
     
  7. Abraxsis thread starter macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

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    Sep 23, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #7
    I was actually looking to scan the negs without a special scanner, just a normal scanner. I did figure it out using several sheets of matte photo paper to diffuse light and a florescent light to backlight through the paper. It worked enough to let me see the images, and infact gave me some very interesting outcomes.

    Anywho, I ordered a Canon 8600F last night, so I wont have to jerry rig anything else.

    Also, Crawn, no offense but your degrees mean very little. Now dont take this wrong because I mean no offense, but they really don't. Art isn't something that can be taught, perhaps the teaching can broaden one's mind in what they're capable of. But, without an artistic vision classes just teach mechanics. You might ask, "What does this guy know?" Well ... I have not only one degree but three. BS Psy, BA Soc., and a MS in Clinical Psychology. I never in 7 years of college took a single Art class. Again, you might ask "So what does this have to do with anything?" Well ... I am the Head Graphic Artist for a large toy company, thats why, and I am entirely self taught. Degrees mean nothing in the real world, experience and what you are able to produce are the true tests in the business world. Granted degrees will help you get in the door, I will most def. give you that. Like I said, I don't mean to offend, I'm just stating the facts as I have experienced them in this world. IMO, If you love taking pictures you're a Photographer, if you love drawing/etc you're an artist, if you love to paint you're an Painter. Besides, some of the best artists in history never spent a day in college, many of them didn't even make money doing it, does that make them any less of an artist? Then you have people like Andy Worhal who made art simply by being labeled an artist. Andy did outlandish things and labeled them art, and he got away with this because he was an "artist." Cristo wraps stuff in plastic. Spencer Tunick take images of hundreds of naked people. Were these people taught this in a college? Highly doubtful. IDK, thats just my POV.

    (PS. Wanna trade tuition bills?)
    (PSS. Yes, I know I misspelled Warhol's last name, its art didn't you know? ;P )
     
  8. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

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    #8
    No offense but I really don't care. lol. :)

    I'm happy where I'm at in life and that's what matters. I wasn't trying to be a pompous a**, know it all, or "I'm better than you are" by saying I have a degree. Not at all.

    But look at it from this point of view as well. My friend, John W. (for his privacy), tried it out at a photo studio right out of high school. Cool. I was happy for him because he made it. He makes 17.75 an hour w/o a degree which is still good money and he's self taught. Now I work with John, after I graduated, and I have a degree. I'm teaching him and he has a 4 year head start on me. And after 4 years he's gotten up to that 17.75. When I started, on my first day, with no other degrees or job history but my photography degree and business practices, I started out at 20 an hour with a raise every 6-9 months on review of my work.

    True, what you said about you need artistic vision, but I'm sure I have that. I received outstanding portfolio from my photography school and awarded by Mamiya/Mac-on-Campus group on some of my images. I'm pretty sure I don't lack artistic vision.

    I'm sorry that you don't feel that degrees means anything, it's your belief and it's cool, but looking at the facts in my life and situations from where I live, degrees mean a lot to me and the business and people I work for. It shows that you have the know how and are backed up by not only your teachers but the institution you graduated from. It shows that you have the technical skills, the communications skills, and the artistic vision to make it out in the real world, the business world. Out of the 22 people that went into the last quarter with me when I graduated, only 10 actually were awarded a degree. The school I graduated from is really strict on who gets a degree. That's why they are in the top 5 in the United States along with New York Institute of Photography and Brooks Institute of Photography. They only let those that excel in that artistic vision and technical skill in photography graduate.

    I agree with you though, and never said otherwise, that if you love to take photographs you are a photographer, etc. I love to come on this forum and see what people are doing, people that have never stepped foot inside a class on photography or photoshop. That is the coolest part to me, to see people doing so many great things! But if everyone could walk into a photography studio and become a photographer, everyone would be a professional (Direct Quote from Dave Witt). That's where a degree matters in the real world. John W., from above, worked for this studio for a year without pay! Basically an internship. I walked in after making an appointment with them, not using John as a reference, and brought my portfolio. I was hired pretty much on the spot with pay from the start. Imagine how happy I was! :p lol!

    You know man, all in all, I'm really not arguing with you. I agree with you on almost everything you're saying. Degrees may not mean a lot to some, but they do get you in the door and that's what counts. They also help you start out at a better pay because the business that hired you knows you're a professional. I've gotten an offer in San Francisco as an assistant director for a studio out there that I'm seriously considering. John and I both sent out a portfolio to them of our work. We both got a review letter back. Even though I only have about 2 years experience and he has around 6, they offered me the job. I felt bad about it, :( , but you know, I had the degree and that's what they told me, when I called, that got me the job. If someone walked in off the street with no degree and a little, to even a lot, of background in commercial photography and got that assistant director job, I know I would be a little upset. So would my boss who's been working in photography for over 30 years.

    I agree with you on almost everything. You make good points too. Have a good one.
    ~Crawn

    P.S. Sure, if you want, but be prepared to pay for the photography's schools bill, the local college, AND the community college. I started taking college courses when I was 16. :D Lol, and not to mention I'm back in that photo school taking refresher courses and going for another degree in portrait. Lol, another 50,000 here I come!
     
  9. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    Behind the lens
    #9
    Like all things in life, its NEVER what you know.

    But always WHO you know
     
  10. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    You're exactly right. Both tend to help you get where you are and where you're going in life.

    ~Crawn
     
  11. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    Behind the lens
    #12
    id argue no.

    Who you know gets you the job, and what you know lets you keep it.

    Though, I see plenty of complete morons who keep their jobs just because of who they know.
     
  12. shecky Guest

    shecky

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    Obviously you're not a golfer.
    #13
    thereby proving my point that its both. getting a job and immediately getting fired from it because you are incompetent is pointless and an irrelevant situation. so it is always what and who you know.
     
  13. Abraxsis thread starter macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #14
    Thanks for your rebuttal Crawn, I appreciate the thoughtful response. Very tactful. I'm not really going to refute anything you said, because I agree with most of it as well. But I do want to clarify some of my own original post given your rebuttal.

    First off, I didn't really mean that having a degree doesn't matter. A college degree is something everyone who is capable should try to achieve. A degree will more def. get you a better starting salary, not only in your chosen field, but also any field you choose to enter. (I myself started out at the top position in my Dept. making 15,000 more/year than I would have been making just being on the roster) As for myself, obtaining a degree has been something I had been planning for since I was about 13 years old.

    Secondly, (forgive me but I am classically trained in Psychology) the differences between your life and John W. could be explained by a lot of things. You may just have a better eye in general, your vision could sync up better with the person doing the hiring, and yes perhaps he liked that you had a degree. I know in my own life a friend and I both applied to the same position, I having three degrees and him still working on his first. He got the position. While it turned out to the be for the best, I was still a bit flumoxed. So I went and spoke to the person doing the hiring and she said I was over-qualified and the school couldn't afford me. So back to your own position, perhaps the studio just couldn't afford the MFA in Photography they interviewed the day before ...

    I know in my line of work I have the final say in who works in my Art Dept and who doesn't. I look at their portfolio, work history, and lastly their degree/certs/awards/etc. Sometimes I hire someone for their unique vision, sometimes I hire them for their demeanor in the interviews, sometimes for the gusto with which they speak of the field, and sometimes I hire someone because they are a complete and utter amateur. I have found that it is that wild, unbridled spirit, unfocused, and quiet ineptness that makes for the best artists. They produce more for themselves, not just for the paychecks our HR Dept hands out every two weeks. Not to mention they are usually the ones who stumble on to new methods/looks/styles/etc because they're the ones in the studio not working under a predefined set of rules and mechanic taught to them.

    Like I said, everything you said has value in the real world. You sound like a very well educated individual and I wish you luck in your endeavors. But, let me bestow one small piece of wisdom that I usually give to my new recruits here in the office. "Never let your craft become your job. When you stop enjoying it, do one of two things. Figure out what happened, and fix it. Or jump ship." In your post I never really got the feeling of whether you truly enjoyed what you do, just where your degree can and will take you. I hope this isn't the case.

    Best Regards.
     
  14. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #15
    The light has to go through the negatives. I use an Epson 4990 that has a light sourrce above the glass ad it works well. If your scanner only has a light source below the glass it can only scan reflective art (prints)

    One thing you can do that is quick and cheap: Put the ng on a light table and shoot it with a digital camera. This is actually much quicker then using a real scanner. If you don't have a light table get an empty milk jug and put a light inside. White balance will be your biggest issue photosho[p can swap the colors but will take some hand correction to get it right
     
  15. Crawn2003 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    Santa Rosa, California
    #16
    Thanks for the reply!

    The quote you said reminds me a lot of something my grandfather told me long ago before he died. I've heard it other places and many ways as well but I can remember exactly how he said it, the look in his eyes, and what he was referring to, even though I was only 10 years old. (He was missing my grandmother and he didn't get a chance to say goodbye before she passed away.) Unfortunately he died about 6 months later. :(

    I will always remember what he said to me though:
    "When you can no longer recognize the man staring back at you when you look into the mirror, you'll know that it is time for you to stop and retrace your steps back to the last time you did recognize that man. Only there will you find your true self."

    You know, when I graduated high school I was going for a Doctorate in medicine. I can remember from when I was little, I always said, "I want to be a doctor!" Every kid says that. I started to too. I went to school at 16 to get some General Education classes out of the way at the community college. When I graduated from high school I started out at the area university. I took premed courses and other classes that would help me in that area. I started to realize that it was my parents spoon feeding me what they wanted me to be. Not what I wanted. Kind of like the debate of nature vs. nurture, where they nurtured the desire for me to become a doctor. ("Yes, I know some psychology, try not to have a heart attack" - lol, sorry, watching the movie Serenity right now and took Mal's quote and made it kind of into one of my own. Come on, if I could think a light meter is a communications device when I was 5 I'm still a little bit of a nerd at 22!)

    I wasn't happy. I didn't like the medical field. I started to realize that I was always kind of forced into the medical field. I remember my parents saying I hope you can become a doctor. Two quarters after I started at the University I was back home for Spring Break (I know, I'm lame ;)) but I was going through some old boxes of my grandfather's. I found boxes of his old photographs. Stuff I didn't even know about. I found some of his old camera equipment.

    And it all fit into place. I can remember him getting me a little point and shoot camera when I was little. I remember his light meter when I was like 5 because I acted like it was some kind of communication device like in sci-fi show or movie. Then I thought back to high school and what I was good at.

    I was in the media club all four years. I worked on everything in that club - video, photos, music, etc. And I enjoyed it. A lot!

    I had taken some dark room and design classes in high school and college but I never really thought anything of it. Come to find out I was getting better grades in those classes (99 and 100) then I was in medical school (90-95%).

    So I dropped out of that University. My parents weren't happy. Mom said my grandfather never made a lot of money doing it. And I told her I didn't care. I enjoyed it and to this day I still do.

    Like you said, you couldn't figure out if I did it for a pay check or if I did it for the fun. All I can say is, between the two schools I made more friends, had more fun, and enjoyed life more in that photography school and in this line of work.

    It's nice going to work everyday and having something new to do. Some new shot that has to be photographed for a client. Maybe they want silverware shot and you have to figure out a way to keep the highlights in check but also get good definition of light and specular shadows. Maybe they need a server shot but they want it to appear floating. Put it on white seamless and go for it. Or my favorite, getting new "toys" like digital backs, or a new Mamiya, or getting one of those nice HDR digitals backs that even though it takes 5 minutes to process the image, the resolution and color are amazing!

    I love photography. I love professional photography. But it's loving my job that's most important and that's what I learned from my grandfather. I went to that school and found a life I enjoy, not just a job and paycheck.

    Take care and have a good one!
    ~Crawn
     
  16. Abraxsis thread starter macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

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    Sep 23, 2003
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    Kentucky
    #17
    Wow, It is really weird, I think our lives mirror each other in many aspects. I too had planned on being a doctor, although when I started I wasn't really sure what field. After a few Psych classes it just seemed to fit me well, so I stuck with it. I actually turned down a free ride to Auburn's PhD program because I was so burned out on school that I couldn't bear the thought of another year at that time. Then out of no where I fell into the toy business, and I have never looked back. A year later I was doing art and heading up the entire department.

    I too was very artistic when I was young, but I was also a science nerd and I suppose my family and teachers "helped" me make the choice to move more in that direction instead of art. You're lucky that you found you're true calling before spending all the money and time on becoming a doctor and maybe not being as happy.

    For me I loved helping people, but I took it to heart too much. In the end it was just too much for me to handle. Small kids with mental trauma from an abusive kid or parent, a depressed individual that you were scared would kill themselves before you seen them again, the mother with postpartum depression who wanted to love her child but just couldn't figure out how. It weighed pretty heavily on me. They say they train that emotion out of you, but I suppose Im not so callous to simply say "Oh Well." My breaking point was a 18 year old boy who had been seeing me and my consulting Doctor (I was kinda like an intern but I had full license to practice as long as I had someone over me, different states have different rules tho) killed himself after I begged my consult to sign the papers to place him on a 72 hour hold. (One of the few things you cant do till you have a PhD) He was, as trained, callous with the "It Happens" attitude, and I had a breakdown. I quit a week later and like I said, never looked backed.

    But I'm happy now, and while that boy never knew it he taught me the greatest lesson of my life. Be happy no matter what. No matter how bad it gets, there is always someone else thats worse off.

    And now we are here, chatting about life on a Photography forum, lol. Then again, what better place to discuss life than a place who's goal is to capture it frame by frame?
     
  17. compuwar macrumors 601

    compuwar

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northern/Central VA
    #18
    I'll have to disagree (or should that be dis degree? :D ) with the premise that any absolute statement like this is applicable to everyone in life. In a technical field, often times what you know, and what your experience is comes much higher on the list than if you have a degree, where it's from or what it's even in.

    I certainly started at a higher salary coming out of the Army than I would have coming out of the same amount of time in college. Heck, you don't even get hired as an assembly language developer out of college. If I'd have pimped my security clearance at the time, I'd have gotten even more money (but not been as happy.)

    Back when I worked for other people, I often turned down applicants with degrees (mostly post-graduate) who really didn't understand how things worked in the real world (and we're not talking four or five, we're talking probably about a hundred to a hundred and fifty.) A degree is after all, just a piece of paper saying that someone's done at least non-failing work in a particular curriculum at a particular time. If you don't have experience, that's important to show that you should know something about the field-- but it's not necessarily going to give you the same amount of experience that someone who worked in the field the same amount of time that the degree-holder spent studying a lot of non-field courses has. If the practitioner also took the time to self-study the right material, then I'd hire the practitioner over the degree every time.

    I've seen plenty of people with degrees come out of a field where their degree is because they couldn't do it, didn't like it, or just couldn't deal well with pressure. With someone who's been practicing, they already know what the day-to-day entails.

    After you get some experience in the field, it may give you an edge, but frankly I'd rather work somewhere that judged people on their merits and picked the best one based on that.

    If you need the disciplined learning environment a university provides to get the knowledge necessary to persue a discipline, that's fine, but it won't always give you a leg up on someone who's self-starting and able to absorb and work in a field for the same amount of time.
     
  18. Abraxsis thread starter macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #19
    This is all very true, the merit of a self starter is a very good thing to take into consideration. But if you have two people with similar backgrounds and experience, the one with the degree will many times win out. Its not always the fact that you HAVE a degree that works in your favor, many times it is more so the fact that you TOOK THE TIME to get one. College isn't all fun and games if you are there to learn, however I will grant that its not the Army (grin).

    This is why I feel that I can generalize (although I will admit I might have overgeneralized just a tad) my statement to the general populous. Having a degree is rarely a bad thing, while not having one is more limiting employment wise. You must remember in many states, and especially Government jobs, all facets of a person's background must be taken into account. You must also keep in mind that over half of a college degree program is gauged to create a well rounded education, not a topic focused one. This is something you don't always get with a technical education. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)
     

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