Rebuild website From Flash to html 5... (Flash vs. html 5)

Discussion in 'Web Design and Development' started by freeny, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #1
    Ok, so if apple wont be supporting Flash for the forseeable future, i assume I will need to rebuild my website from Flash to html 5.
    Here is my site-

    Old Flash site-
    http://web.mac.com/moistproduction/flash_Old/index.html

    New site (iweb)
    www.moistproduction.com

    I like Flash's keyframe setup as well as easy methods to build rollover buttons and prebuilt simple action scripting ie "goto and stop" etc...

    What is a good html 5 web building app that would hopefully give similar ease?

    I am an illustrator, not a programmer, but want to be able to manage my own site...
     
  2. Moderator emeritus

    angelwatt

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    The HTML5 spec is still under work and browsers only have partial support for it and some have no support for it. You'll be locking out more users by using HTML5 right now than Flash. The only tools somewhat like this is Adobe's product for making Flash into iPhone apps.
     
  3. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #3
    Is there anything out currently that would be able to do the html 5 in the future similar to what I am looking for?

    I could at least get the ball rolling on learning the app...
     
  4. Moderator emeritus

    angelwatt

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    #4
    I'd suggest learning JavaScript because that's how most of it will be done and currently can be done with without HTML5. Even CSS works really well for rollover effects. What HTML5 brings is the video tag. I suggest doing more reading so you know what HTML5 actually is because it's clear you have the wrong impressions about it. Knowledge is power.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #5
    My impressions of it from the current anti flash threads is that it is going to magically replace it. Is this not the case? If so there is alot of false info running rampant...

    Im not looking to learn a whole computer language, im looking for an app that will take alot of the bite out of knowing how to write code, like Flash does with its library of pre written scripts for the basic stuff...

    Remember, i am an illustrator not a programmer.
     
  6. Moderator emeritus

    angelwatt

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    #6
    Like I said, read. HTML5 from Wikipedia. Forums discussions like you've read are not a good place to start. Those discussions generally expect people to have an understanding of the topics being discussed and do not get into the specifics of what will be done. Not being a programmer won't be an excuse that gets you very far. There's plenty of tutorials and pre-built solutions that don't require you to have detailed programming knowledge.
     
  7. macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #7
    Chances are if you rebuild your site without flash, it won't look as good, and will be less accessible to more people, assuming you don't choose to support IE 6.
     
  8. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    #8
    There's something wrong in your statement, You cannot clone your Flash with HTML5, that's not the point when some people say HTML5 would replace Flash.

    HTML5 isn't a closed standard, and as some stated before, it isn't even supported by all browsers.

    But, if you want to use HTML5 for your site, you should start by redesing itself, making it more close to a thing that can be done with Javascript/HTML/CSS. I'm not saying this design must be less stylish, but at least, it must be different.

    What I think is you should never use only Flash to make a website, there's some standard methods to lay up a web.
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #9
    I realize there are plenty of flash/no flash threads but i have to pose this question... What does apple expect to replace Flash if they refuse to support it? Im not talking about video but interactive websites like my own?...


    Side question-
    Is there a way in iweb to place custom built navigation that doesnt need to reload for every page? Just loads the new content without rerendering the content that is consistant?... (similar to how flash can load a different layer within the same flv)
     
  10. Moderator emeritus

    sushi

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    キャンプスワ&#
    #10
    No offense, but I had to force myself to stay on your site past your main page. Everything takes way too long to load. Sorry, but I would never consider giving you my business because everything is too slow and I would not want my pages to load the same way.

    On a side note, you have many cool things on your website. You are a creative individual. Suggest when transitioning from Flash to HTML(5)/CSS/etc., I think it would be a great idea to work on streamlining and speeding up your website.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  11. macrumors P6

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #11
    The site looks cool, but having to endure a progress bar to load everything is definitely a turn off

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  12. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #12
    I use to have the whole site built in iweb, looked exacly the same sans the rollovers and spinning animation. The problem was several things-

    -i couldnt use my custom font without rasterizing
    -no roll overs
    -everything had to rerender for every page including the navigation which stayed the same for each page (biggest peeve). Loading times were worse then flash because it was for every page not just each section.

    I agree on the slow load comments hence my journey to correct them...
     
  13. macrumors P6

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
  14. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    #14
    ^ This.

    You are looking at using current tech - HTML/CSS and javascript libraries for effects.

    Right now when people say HTML5 they are mostly talking specifically about the ability to deploy video, but there are some brewing issues around H.264 licensing.

    The reason for the confusion is that with the rise of YouTube, Flash came to mean video. When is the last time you played a Real or .wmv file? So, if the video can be handled through other means, than the only other thing you are looking to replicate is interactive effects, data handling and sorting which moves from Actionscript to Javascript.

    It's not a direct replacement, Flash will always be able to produce much more art intense interactive experiences, and some other things like the ability to control things like fonts.

    Welcome to the Splinternet.
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    #15
    What kind of society are we if a few seconds of loading puts us off? Are we really that hyperactive now that we cannot sit still for 5 seconds without a massive amount of visual stimulation?

    The flip side of this is that some people prefer to see animation even it means waiting a few seconds for it. Complexity has a tradeoff and that tradeoff is time. Some of the best computer games take a few seconds to load new levels. To me dumbing down the content so people can get a quick fix and run through the internet like they just drank 10 cups of coffee is not the solution either. There needs to be an in between.

    The reality is that people today are just spoiled brats. I used to have to wait sometimes a minute for a simple HTML and jpeg based website to load on dialup. Mostly young people today have no concept of relaxing and waiting for the finer things in life. In all reality a site that uses a lot of jpegs and just HTML and CSS could take just as long to load. After all Flash itself does not add much of an overhead in a SWF file. 95% of the data is your image and audio data.

    I did not find your site to take too long to load. You may want to try to speed it up slightly for those who are addicted to that quick fix by having each section use smaller data but other then that I do not see a problem with your site. Very nice work.
     
  16. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Location:
    Skipton, UK
    #16
    html5 isn't an app, it's a description of how elements on a web page should act and interact with one another, plus it's work in progress.

    Rather than replace all of your site with html (of whatever level) look at those parts of it that Flash does best and those that are better done in html then aim towards that.

    Loading times are dependent on the goal - I'd quit a commercial or information site that took as long to load as the main content of your site - but for an entertainment site it is probably acceptable these days.
     
  17. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #17
    and nor is action script, but there is an app called "flash" that allows you to build websites with it... I was hoping there was an app that easily, with semi wysiwyg elements where i could build a site using html5... Dreamweaver perhaps?
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    #18
    Dreamweaver is a glorified text editor with code hinting and formatting, site management and FTP built in. Which is basically what a WYSIWYG HTML editor is.

    Coda is also very popular on the Mac. Maybe $60?

    Aptana Studio and Komodo also get some play. Free.
     
  19. Moderator emeritus

    angelwatt

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    #19
    You're trying to compare apples and oranges, though I realize you don't realize that yet as you need to understand both sides, which is why I keep encouraging reading (there's lots of articles on HTML5). You're not going to find anything like Flash for doing HTML5/JavaScript because they aren't in the same category really other than being for the web. The only thing I can think of that may partially addresses what you're looking for is YUI. The simple answer to this thread has been "no," but you keep dragging it out unnecessarily.
     
  20. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    #20
    That's not really what he thinks his issue is.

    Some sites are appropriate for Flash.

    Other sites want/need more universal access, or their authors just want them to work on all devices.
     
  21. thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    #21
    that is actually the first time the answer has been addressed, thank you :)

    ive appreciated everyones input, i learned more then I expected.
     
  22. Moderator emeritus

    sushi

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    キャンプスワ&#
    #22
    Good questions.

    I think the point is this, what kind of website is it going to be? Is the priority an entertaining one or an informative one.

    For the first type, Flash and other are fine. These individuals have the time to enjoy watching whatever is presented.

    However, for the second type, those who access the site want information provided quickly and effectively. They are not interested is being entertained.

    Some sites provide both by having a button/link that the user can click to skip the Flash.

    For me both types of sites are good. Which I prefer depends on what my purpose is when accessing a site. Hope that makes sense.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    #23
    FWIW, I build sister mobile websites now for our main sites.

    I was just on an around the country trip doing some work with various design agencies. There we are with our iPhones and Androids trying to pull up some agency's website on our phones and there were are staring at the missing Flash plug-in.

    All we wanted was a phone number or an address or something.

    You can build an all-flash website, but you need to consider mobile users, SEO, and deep linking now, and that's with the usual concerns about ease of updating, etc.

    It's enough to almost make one forgo Flash altogether in some instances.
     
  24. macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #24
    Javascript and CSS... which is a poor alternative, but Apple doesn't give you anything better. Basically, they are trying to gimp the internet in a way.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    disconap

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #25
    The current one. It's easy to say things like this, but how often do you turn off films, tv shows (or flip channels during commercials)? Have you never jumped a site because it loads slowly?

    The reality is that web design is half art, half advertising. You have to meet the visual needs of your clients, but appeal to the technical needs of their customers. If you're not doing both, you're an artist or an advertiser, not a web designer.
     

Share This Page