Recovering from what?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #1
    Tonight I watched Jim Lehrer interview Treasury Secretary John Snow on the NewsHour. Six times, by my count, Snow mentioned that we were in "a recovery." This left me wondering -- a recovery from what? Of course Lehrer never asked him, leaving the mystery intact.

    All suggestions are welcome!

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/jan-june05/snow_3-23.html
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #2
    we're still in a recovery of the 2001 recession, which officially ended in november 2001.

    nice how the tax cuts and deficit budgets seem to be hindering the recovery, rather than helping it, as bush claimed they would.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Reality
    #3
    Pfffft! Wishful thinking on Snow's part. The economy's going to stay in the gutter as long as Bush is in office.
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #4
    My opinion is that the twisting and redefining of words by highly-placed politicos often make their statements almost meaningless.

    In this particular interview, the whole thing is meant to maintain or improve consumer confidence, and whatever words will help do that will be used. That makes sense, since our economy is some 2/3 based on folks buying crap they don't really need. That keeps money in circulation, which helps the tax-take at all levels. If people stayed home and started saving money, woe unto all levels of government! (Woe unto China and Japan, for that matter...)

    The feds gotta keep us consumers convinced that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and that nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong...the dot-com bubble generated a lot of money for a lot of people and for the tax-takers; the current housing bubble is doing the same. Those who said the dot-com bubble would burst were correct; it will be interesting to see if their same views about housing/interest rates/re-fi/etc. will also be correct.

    "May you live in interesting times." Boy, do we ever!

    :), 'Rat
     
  5. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #5
    Personally, I think we're recovering from the Bush administration. The recovery will take at least another four years.
     
  6. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #6
    I think we are recovering from a collective head injury and/or heart attack.

    The economy and much political discourse these days seems to be in a PVS, and perhaps it is time to pull the feeding tube and move on.

    But, of course, many in the Administration, despite facts to the contrary and/or expert opinion, believe that recovery is imminent. This position thinly veils their private interests as those of the public.

    There was obvious malpractice on the part of those handling the economy and many of the the political media outlets, so I am looking for my settlement thankyou very much...
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #7
    We still haven't managed to undo the damage good old Ronnie Ray-Gun did, it's gonna take alot more than 4 years to recover from the shrub...
     
  8. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #8
    Well, the fed deficit is some $600 billion a year? Iraq is costing around $100 billion a year? The Bush tax cuts mean foregoing some $150 billion a year in government income?

    That means some $350 billion a year that you, me and Joe Sixpack seem to be happy with? That is, get rid of Dubya and we're still $350 billion, annually, behind?

    That ain't much of a cure.

    'Rat
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #9
    i'm not sure to which words you're referring. 'recession' has a very specific definition, and by that definition it ended 11/01. afaik, 'recovery' doesn't have such a specific definition.

    it's very much in stride for the bush administration to look at only the data that supports their position. there are a number of economic indicators, and if even one is improving* (as is always the case, i'd expect), they can latch onto it and declare we're in a recovery.

    * funny to me how snow latches onto rising interest rates as that one
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #10
    Ronnie RayGun? Well, there were indeed such things as the expansion of farm subsidies from $6 billion per year to over $40 billion, and an expansion of federal employment unseen since Nixon...His policies forced the USSR into bankruptcy, so possibly his deficits were worth it. Of course, some folks might say there's apparently no value to removing fear from hundreds of millions of people--which Reagan's policies danged sure did.

    Sure, zim, "recession" is a specific term. But "recovery"? How are we still in recovery, four years later? Or, who's recovering--or are folks recovering--from that $8 trillion hickey from the dot-com bubble's burst? I wonder how we're having this recovery when I read about the decline in high-pay jobs compared to the rise in lower-paid jobs? Something just doesn't compute, there. I'm reminded of the white-collar recession of 1988/1989 as computers and email obviated the need for much of middle management: Lose an 80K job; find a $35K job.

    It's not government policy which forces people out of savings and into more debt than is wise. It's not government policy which is pushing the costs of crude oil and gasoline upwards. And it looks like it's We The People who are buying more goods from overseas than we have need for.

    I dunno. I like "toys" and fine restaurants as much as anybody. I like to indulge myself as to "things". But, right now I don't do much indulging; I'm hanging on to my money and sitting tight. Call me a short-term pessimist. Long-term, I'm far more optimistic.

    So "they" can holler about low inflation rates and recoveries all they want to. Me, I'm looking at the way the dollar is losing buying power, and the way a lot of the stuff I buy keeps increasing above 3% per year. (Five years ago, hydraulic oil at Sam's was $13 for five gallons. Last week? $21.)

    And so it goes...

    'Rat
     
  11. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #11
    Invest in pesos.
     
  12. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #12
    Reagan's policies danged sure didn't do that. The USSR was well advanced in the process of rotting from within long before Reagan built a 400 ship Navy. An equal an opposite argument could be derived from the facts that the Reagan military buildup was a colossal waste of the taxpayer's money -- and that's even before we get to SDI.

    One of the reasons oil prices are moving ever higher is the weak dollar. The dollar is weak due in no small part to record deficit spending, which is due almost entirely to the Bush tax cuts.

    As for Snow's remarks, I simply wanted Lehrer to question him about his frequent use of the word "recovery." At very least, it seems at odds with the relentlessly sunny appraisal of the economy we're hearing from the administration on an almost daily basis.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #13
    So which foreign leader will get the pseudohistorical credit for bankrupting the USA?
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #14
    i think you've answered your own question. let's consider "recovery" the purgatory between the end of the recession and the beginning of agreed-upon good times.

    perhaps we should call it "doldrums."
     
  15. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #15
    No doubt about the internal rot, IJ, but Reagan's stuff was the proverbial last straw for the camel's back. Without him the USSR could well have hung in for several more years...

    zim, I can buy "doldrums", although several of the Contrarian view are speaking of "stagflation".

    Looking at the weak dollar/oil price thing, I wonder if the rise in oil will push China to seriously change their tie between the renmimbi and the dollar. China is now ahead of Japan in the quantity of imported oil; second only to the US. But, the US is the biggest market for Chinese products. If they let the renmimbi float, oil becomes cheaper. The drawback is that they could lose a share of the US market because of higher prices for their goods.

    The Kiwi, the Aussie and Canadian dollars, the Swiss Franc and of course the Euro have all risen against the USD. Mexico's Peso has stayed fairly constant at 11.2 to the dollar for this whole run-up period of the other currencies. Don't buy Pesos. :)

    'Rat
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #16
    And apparently some people put little value on the damage Ray-gun did in the foreign policy sphere, even if you do give him a modicum of credit for hastening the demise of the USSR.

    And that's not even getting into what he did to us at home.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #17
    umm...I would be one of those people. I remember his administration taking on left-wing elements in Central America (marxist government in Greneda, weapons aid to El Salvador and the aid of the Contras). I also remember the SDI initiative (Star Wars). There was also aid to Iraq and the mujadeen in Afganistan, which seem understandable policy then, if not now.

    Still, he did preside over the relaxing of tensions between the USSR and the US, and accomplished an agreement for the destruction of hundreds of nuclear missles.

    I am no fan of Reagan, but much like Bush...I am more concerned with failures on the Domestic front.

    I will say that Bush Sr is rapidly becoming one of my most admired presidents of recent memory in retrospect.
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #18
    Hmm... I consider Reagan's meddling in South America to be a major blunder. It was a bad way to go about resisting the spread of communism. Reprecussions of those policies, both legal and illegal, are still coming back to roost. But hey, without those days where would Negroponte have gotten any experience?
     
  19. cleo macrumors 65816

    cleo

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Tampa Bay Area, FL, USA
    #19
    Perhaps he was referring to those 53% of Americans who are by now hopefully recovering from whatever caused the delusion that it was a good idea to re-elect Shrub? Viral encephalitis, maybe?
     
  20. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #20
    Temporary vegetative state?
     

Share This Page