Religion is Bad

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rickvanr, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #1
    Please don't flame.

    I've been reading in the political forums a lot the past few days, and I just find that religion causes some people to be extremely narrow minded. Especially Christianity. I went to a Catholic elementary school and high school so I get a little bit. I just can't help but think every time in history where religion plays a bigger role then scientific thought, nothing really important happens. It's almost like religion causes backwardness. The Greeks had a lot of good ideas, but then Christianity took over, nothing really important happened for a millennium or so, and then we had the renaissance and lots of good things were discovered, and lots of those things clashed with biblical teachings, but they were right. I just think it's no big coincidence that when religion doesn't influence people more gets done.
     
  2. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #3
    I wholeheartedly agree. It drives me potty when people put religion in front of common sense.
     
  3. greatdevourer macrumors 68000

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    #4
    Great, so, because of a few nutters who, if they didn't follow religion (well, they don't, but I'll leave that for another time), would find some other cause to go follow and kill people for, we're all murdering ****tards? Dude...

    Shut

    The

    ****

    Up
     
  4. rickvanr thread starter macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #6
    I was trying to compare Europe around 200 BCE with Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, etc.. to nothing happening until the people like Machiavelli, Luther, Isaac Newton, etc.. From what school has taught me, there have been more great thinkers when religions were not suppressing them.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    It depends what you mean by "important".
     
  6. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #8
    As we're seeing in the Donahue thread, one can be a godless libertarian and push for genocide.
     
  7. Ashapalan macrumors 6502a

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    England
    #9
    Yet at the end of the day, religious people have a firm belief that God does exist. Everything they do revolves around this key belief. Just as with atheists, the key beliefs are around science.

    If it turns out there is a God, then everything that happened on this earth was irrelevant other than to build faith in God, and most importantly, religious people won't have been narrow minded.

    You really have to be careful with arguments, is it fair to call religious people narrow minded simply because they believe in God? The argument can be reversed just as easily. 'Atheists are narrow minded because all they look at is the laws of science.' If atheists then say that they do explore other alternatives, it is important to appreciate that religious people also look at other alternatives. They aren’t born religious.

    Science isn't proof against God; it's simply the way in which God created things.

    erm, just on the Greek topic, I can't help think about the Romans, who's faith was Christianity and how they seemed to take over almost every part of Europe. (Wasn’t that important?) Yeh, it was. The Greeks themselves were religious and yeh your right, they did get some stuff done.

    At the end of the day, no one will ever be able to prove that God doesn't exist because everyone will just die and that will be the end of that
    But;
    They will be able to prove he does exist because upon death we will consciously be able to find out.

    I'm a scientist.
    I'm also a Christian.

    I used to appreciate that science was the way everything happened; God had no place in my world. But then I looked at probability. It is actually more likely that God exists than he didn’t.

    So many 'exact' things had to happen for us to be here now, the exact atmosphere levels, the position from the sun, the big bang itself...

    I came to realize that science is the answer to how things work but there are some questions that science can never answer.

    Ask yourself what's outside the universe.
    Ask yourself what the universe is expanding into.

    Explain why you believe God to be more unlikely than the less probable answer that the big bang resulted in us.

    Do you really believe that the universe has been around forever, that there wasn’t a first cause, but a chain of infinite causes led to us?

    I couldn't answer these. They scared me. Then I realized that perhaps I couldn’t know. I’m not ready for that knowledge. God will reveal it to me in his own time.

    I was also scared of God, that if I accepted he existed, I would go to hell and suffer. It’s so easy to block this kind of fear out by putting material possessions in the way of it. Such things as iPod could do a pretty good job of this, I know from experience.

    This fear in mind, knowing that I had come to appreciate that God may exist; I decided not to hide, but to face God directly.

    I went to a Christian convention for a week. And at the end of it, I asked God into my life. I felt him enter.

    I've been a different person ever since. I've learned that you don’t have to fear God; he wants us to know him, and those who do will live forever.

    Christians are different from Atheists.

    We believe we will live forever, atheists don’t.
    But, anyone can become a Christian. It doesn’t work the other way around

    It’s the individuals choice.
    Life is what you make it.
    But, I just couldn’t accept that there isn’t a God, science just doesn’t answer the questions that need to be answered. It just doesn’t make sense.
    To me.
     
  8. rickvanr thread starter macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #10
    I'm Catholic. I'm not calling them narrow minded for believing in god, I'm calling them narrow minded for making god the end all/be all. I know things can happen that science can't always prove. For instance a cancer patient going into remission. The Greek thinkers I'm mostly familiar with are largely political thinkers. My point about the Greeks was that religion did not limit them.
     
  9. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus

    Mitthrawnuruodo

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    #11
    While I wholeheartedly support your views on religion, I just have to correct you about ancient Greece. Religion played just a big a deal, and Socrates himself was convicted and executed for lack of respect for the Gods and corrupting the minds of youth.

    So religiously motivated suppression existed before Christianity, although the Church have perfected it... :D
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    ?

    You start off talking about religion vs. science, but it's clear you aren't including any other religion than your own. If any scientific question is too difficult, your answer is "God". How challenging.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Thank you. I'm staying out of this one too. Can't we think of something new to discuss?
     
  12. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #14
    well, how "catholic" would you really consider yourself? ;)

    i'll basically weigh in that i think religion in itself is fairly good. by "religion" there i mostly mean spirituality, etc.... organized religion is more heavily bad, but still does some good...
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    I suppose it would be churlish to point out that the Roman Empire started to fall apart at about the same time they adopted Christianity.

    What on earth are you talking about?

    Really? What branch?
     
  14. rickvanr thread starter macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #16
    I'm a big fan of Christmas. I know the bible isn't literal. I don't goto church, but I don't think going to church makes god love you. But I also know that the earth isn't surrounded by dozen of crystal spheres and that the sun is the centre of the universe. I completely agree with that religion can be a good thing, people need to have faith when there is nothing else, but I also think it's foolish to refuse a medical treatment that could save your life because it's against your religious views.
     
  15. belvdr macrumors 601

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    #17
    For once, we agree. :) Maybe we could start a thread-in-a-thread, like discussing the latest seed for 10.4.3 or whether it will be OS 11 or OS XI. :D
     
  16. Ashapalan macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Sorry for voicing a gappy opinion skunk, I just don’t get much practice at it as I usually get battered into the ground, making me wary before saying what I think, as im always outnumbered.

    But continue questioning please, it shows me where I talk rubbish and where I don't. It strengthens me and therefore I appreciate it.

    Sorry for talking solely about my own religion, I tried to make out that the second half wasn’t to do with the debate but evidently failed.

    I am not a scientist yet, but im going into cell biology.

    About falling back onto God when I can't answer a question, yes I do. But I do believe in him and therefore that to me is the answer. From an atheist point of view I can see that that is narrow minded, and I apologize for that.

    What I was getting at with the dying bit I obviously didn’t do very well.

    I’ll try again.

    If God does not exist, then when we die, we will no longer be aware of anything, so we will not know that God does not exist.

    But if God does exist, then when we die (and yes this is from my own religions point of view, if that offends anyone I apologize) we will know that God exists, as we will go on to live forever, be it in heaven or in hell.

    Sorry for any offences caused by what I said and say. But just remember that sometimes things that others say hurt me too.
    I love God,
    And he loves me.
    That's all I need to know.

    So, by all means challenge me, but my faith is unshakable, I will always be a Christian.
     
  17. rickvanr thread starter macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #19
    Well since I started this thread in the "Politics, Religion, Social Issues" section, perhaps you could look in the "Mac OS X" section for that sort of thing.
     
  18. belvdr macrumors 601

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    #20
    :D Never participated in a thread-in-a-thread... Wonder if I could patent that? Oh yeah, I could, but that's another story.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    Not only from an atheist's point of view, whatever that is. If this is your approach, why bother trying to find anything out? "God" is apparently the answer to everything. Doesn't sound a very promising attitude for a scientist.

    But what if "we" find that "God" is someone else's "God"? That could be tricky, couldn't it?

    I hope you're very happy together.

    You can be whatever flavour you like, just be thoughtful with it.
     
  20. Lacero macrumors 604

    Lacero

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    #22
    I declare holy jihad on this thread!!!

    Religion and politics don't mix but seems the Republicans used this tactic to win the Whitehouse. Idiots. The F***ing of America. That's the title of my new book.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    "Farting"? It's so hard to tell what all those asterisks stand for...
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    Wasn't there a Brit (who just by chance happened to be a betting man) who developed a philosophy based upon the idea that playing the odds led you to a belief in God because if God was real you won and if God wasn't real you couldn't lose? Sounds like something I heard in a Philosophy class once...
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    Isn't that Godwin's Law? :p


    Anyway, it still suffers from a binary approach. "God" may not be "our" "God". Then we're stuffed anyway.
     

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