resumes II:

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    i suspect there are a whole lot of high school and college kids that finished this june and are still looking for a job

    being a former hr person, but now a techie, i will be glad to look at any resumes and give suggestions so you can post it here, give a link, or PM me and i will charge you based on your ip linked to your bank account...no, just kidding ;)

    but send resumes and i will give helpful suggestions
     
  2. SilvorX macrumors 68000

    SilvorX

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Location:
    'Toba, Canada
    #2
    lol, im staying away from resumes this year, did a tonne of work last year for a resume for a business class (best one in the class even tho the other ppl sucked at it lol) but when IF i do get working on it some more, i'll probably be workin on it for a few weeks or so (next year) n i'm thinking getting a job at canada post (cuz it doesnt take a genius to do that career ;))
     
  3. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #3
    Re: resumes II:

    OK, quick resume question - I'm long since out off high school (and even graduate school) but I'm currently, uh, self-employed with no customers.

    One page or many pages? I've got a decade of experience in three jobs with a whole bunch of "this is how I saved the world" material, and it just won't fit on one page any more. monster.com's resume builder is nice (you can write huge resumes) but people have to actually look at monster.com resumes, and I somehow need to condense all that info into something I can send out.

    Also, how would you deal with a resume submitted to a company in August that had the prospective employee's previous job ending in May? I left my last job voluntarily, fairly confident I'd have something lined up within a month or so. Then, just a week or so after leaving, I ended up with a compound fracture and a dislocated ankle, housebound for three months. Mention it? Mention it in the cover letter? Don't mention it unless asked about it at an interview?
     
  4. Edot macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Location:
    NJ
    #4
    Re: Re: resumes II:


    This is just my opinion, but I would want to HAVE another job before I left my current one. :) I would not be comfortable just walking out with nothing on the horizon. Could be just me though. Good luck with the job search:D
     
  5. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #5
    many hr people think a huge resume is the kiss of death...hr people are humans like anybody else and i don't know of anybody who can read two page resumes for hours on end...major brainfreeze...he he

    i have been working since mid 1970s but i keep my resume short as in:




    "jefhatfield"
    -adresss-
    -phone-
    -email-

    objective:

    description that is targeted

    experience:

    my own computer repair business,
    description
    99-present

    my own landscaping business,
    description
    89-present

    ace hardware,
    description
    87-89

    education:

    MCP technical certification
    institution,
    city, year

    BA degree
    institution,
    city, year

    AA degree
    institution,
    city, year

    and working on CCNA technical certification
    institution w/graduation certificates each sem.
    city, year

    references on request



    and this all fits onto one page (barely, in 12 pt font)

    to save space and keep it within one page, i left out that i worked on and off at my parent's retail store from mid 70s to late 80s

    i left out that i had small pt winter jobs when i went thru brief rainy seasons in the landscaping business

    i left out that i was on honor roll once in college

    i left out that i finished high school because two college degrees leave enough of an impression

    i left out that i am pursuing graduate degree studies and want to have an advanced degree in cs

    i left out what i do for hobbies and activities

    i had to leave all those things out to fit my nearly 30 years onto one resume...i think paring things down is crucial when you get to be in your 30s, 40s, or older

    online resumes are kind of neat since you can fool an hr person and maybe get 1.5 pages in...but don't push it...if you make it two pages online and after many hours of reading resumes, the hr person won't give a rip if you have a master's degree from harvard...they will take you resume and hit "delete"
     
  6. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #6
    Re: resumes II:

    Send them where buddy?

    email me at mcrain_il@hotmail.com and I'll reply my resume and cover letter to you if you don't mind.
     
  7. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #7
    Re: Re: resumes II:

    for best results for everybody to see, you can put one on this forum like i did, or you can PM me with your resume if you want more privacy...but you can put it in a quick format on this forum and leave out real name, address, phone, and real name, address, phone of employer (for privacy)


    and also, this is for awrc, it's ok to try and submit a resume late since they might not have gotten around to placing person...hr types can be lazy...he he

    and if you broke your leg or ankle and there is a gap in your resume, no biggie...you won't have room to fit, "i broke me legs in an accident" on a resume...you have grad school and i wouldn't omit that on resume to explain that you had a bad fall but i hope you get better soon ;)

    and just remember two things

    one page
    and target the resume to employer

    that means if you are going for ten jobs in ten different businesses, that means make ten resumes...and this is where computers help vs the old typewriter symdrome of old
     
  8. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #8
    Re: Re: resumes II:

    if you are like me and are an entrepreneur (with computer business), then you can target your resumes for each individual freelance customer...assuming they want a resume...and if they know you, two pages is ok

    most of my computer related customers don't care that i am microsoft certified and they think cisco is a cooking oil ;)

    i do have a few large customers that i was only able to work thru an employment agency like kelly or manpower and in those cases, i went by the rules, sent in a one page resume, and got much needed large scale experience thru the agency (they need their cut to stay in business, too)

    so work small customers like relatives all the way up to large customers via kelly and manpower and be super humble since all us entrepreneurs have to crawl before we walk
     
  9. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #9
    Re: Re: Re: resumes II:

    good advice, but not always possible

    one lady i know left new york and ibm to work for apple in cupertino, ca

    she had to cut ties, and a much larger salary/wage, to move here first, and then go to work for apple inc

    there is no easy way to do this, but personally, get another job lined up if possible but if you are moving, get the place to live first...unemployment checks, family, and friends hopefully can help

    it's not worth it calling in sick in one job to work another job secretly or work, long term, two jobs 80 hours a week

    nobody should work 80 hours a week, unless you are some sort of entrepreneur and you got broadsided with customers before you were able to get help:p
     
  10. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #10
    always keep at least one copy of a resume on a disk, computer, or hard copy

    you never know when it will come in handy and i go on my computer and update my resume once a month and back it up on floppy

    i hope these suggestions help everybody here and i am willing to try and answer any other resume questions...between clients...so i may not get to answer right away but definitely between one or two days at most
     
  11. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #11
    Re: Re: Re: resumes II:

    When the stresses of your current job are such that you're in Nervous Breakdown (*) territory and the doctor recommends you leave your current job for the good of your health, you do it :D Well, maybe you don't, but I do. Oh, and last time I left my job without another one lined up (same job, actually, they persuaded me to come back) I put my resume up on monster.com on the Monday and had six interviews lined up by the end of Tuesday - not so much response this time, alas, due to the economy, but people have at least been looking at my resume.

    Besides, May was a three paycheck month, I'd had a bonus in April and I'd been hoarding for a couple of months in preparation, so I had money in the bank to keep me covered for a good three months. Of course, the leg kinda screwed that up, but I have AFLAC, and the payout I'm hoping for from my injury insurance should keep me financially secure for another couple of months, if need be.

    Oh, and the guy who replaced me quit last week, although he fortunately did have something else lined up. It'd be nice to think my former employer might now be becoming slowly aware that All Is Not Right with that particular position.

    Al

    (*) Aware that it's not a proper medical term, but it's shorthand for the actual problems without all of the grisly details.
     
  12. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #12
    Yep, very useful, thanks, although I'm not the entrepreneurial type (tried it, but in a new town with no contacts, I had the skills, I had the motivation but I didn't have the customers :)) so I'm aiming more for a regular salaried position and with the odd bit of consulting on the side (which is what I was doing before). There was supposed to be some of that this summer too, but the place I was to do the work for got hit with the Microsoft "upgrade all copies of Office to XP before date X or lose the right to upgrade altogether" threat and *foomf* there went the budget for the project. I'm planning to do it anyway, in my own time, in a more generalized form, partly as a programming exercise, partly because I might be able to sell it to them next year.

    It's getting really hard to fit it all that stuff into one page these days though. The perils of advancing age :D I've already cut out all the dead wood. It fits, but it only tells a fraction of the story.

    OK, here's another one - the wisdom of putting the URL of an online "detailed resume" on a one-page resume? Sort of the best of both worlds.
     
  13. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #13
    Another general tweak re resume length that I've observed personally. It's a difficult one to predict so unless you know about hiring practices at the company you're applying to, don't take a risk.

    Example - in one of my stints in management we had to hire a new senior sysadmin. At our location we had maybe a couple of hundred people, 75% of whom where tech support and customer support phone reps, so the frequency with which high level tech posts came up was fairly low.

    Since the requirements for the position were pretty specialized and more than just checking off how many items an applicant met on a checklist, our HR person at the time barely touched the resumes that were sent in - she cut out the ones where the applicant was obviously way way out of their depth, and copies of the rest were sent to my boss and myself. What we wanted was detail - copious detail.

    So this was an occasion where a long resume wasn't a bad thing (2-3 pages was the norm) but it was important to get across the fact that you were adequately qualified on that first page. So if you know the resume's going to go pretty much straight to your prospective boss (much more often the case at small companies) a longer resume can work.

    At least, it worked for us - the guy we hired proved to be excellent at his job and, after I decided that management was sucking the life out of me, he eventually took over as *my* boss, until he moved to one of our other locations for family reasons (taking a demotion in the process) and I ended up stuck with being the manager again and with the resulting nightmares - trying being told to fire your most talented employee for a fake and rather feeble political reason on your very first day in the job for a great way to settle in to the position. "The position" can be taken to refer to "middle management" or "bent over", it's much the same thing.
     
  14. sparkleytone macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #14
    http://homepage.mac.com/alanbrent/resume.html

    just realize that the .doc version is cleaner when it comes to formatting and things lining up.

    i dont know html so i had a bitch of a time getting this to look that good.

    anyways i need a job bad, but im debating whether i even need to bother with the resume because i really just need a part time very flexible college type job. the big problem is that i am loathe to wait tables again.
     
  15. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #15
    for an nt or w2k systems administrator, more detail is needed...things like if they know .net, back office, and how to work macs into an nt environment

    do they know how to implement a firewall, unix style

    do they know active directory

    is there a need for them to work with cisco routers and would they need to configure them and subnet a class c network

    etc...

    i could see how that could turn into two pages in that case
     
  16. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #16
    Here's another "Ask The Former HR Guy" question:

    Puffery/Resume Padding - where do you draw the line? I'm at the stage of my career where, unless someone needed me to write COBOL or do mainframe stuff, I could claim some level of expertise in almost any programming language they'd require me to use.

    As an example, I still routinely include "Java" in my language list, even though I've not actively worked with it in close to five years, because the changes in the actual language over that time are minimal. Most of the changes have been in Java's class libraries (Swing was in beta around the time I finished my last Java project). I'm deeply immersed enough in OO-concepts and design patterns that I know I can be up to speed in a couple of weeks, and be more than just competent inside a month.

    Am I padding my resume by putting Java in there? Or am I just strategically omitting some minor details re the currency of my experience? Note that I do *not* indulge in stuff like putting in languages I've never touched - anything I put in that list I have worked with at some time or another.
     
  17. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #17
    the best thing instead of a puffed resume is a lean, mean, targeted resume that gets right to the point and will be seen by even the most tired of hr professionals

    also remember that most hr people know nothing about high tech outside of the basics like microsoft, ibm, apple, mac, windows, java, etc...

    acronyms could be used to save space but remember not to overuse them as to confuse the feely, touchy hr person

    "implemented VPN and W2K network with P4

    one could put down detail of such a microscopic technical nature that it gets tossed in the circular file
     
  18. ejb190 macrumors 65816

    ejb190

    #18
    I have a bit different stragy for working with resumes (or CVs as the case may be).

    I have an "overkill" resume which is about 4.5 pages long. Depending on the need, I start deleting until I get it down to under 2 pages (in my field a 3-4 page CV is not uncommon). I will usually do some rewriting to fine tune points, but I don't have to worry about forgetting something important because it is all there.

    I have also kept a file of all the resumes I have sent out. That way I don't have to recreate things that work.
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #19
    I had a long resume (2+) pages (and believe me, that was lean and mean), but it wasn't working.

    I also had a 2 page cover letter.

    I was trying to get too much to my audience too quickly.

    So far, after sending a bunch of the 4 page letter/resumes out, and then now sending my targetted 2 page cover letter/resume out, I have gotten far better reactions from the 2 pages.

    Once I got the interviews, I brought in my detailed information in a nice plastic binder (with original resume/cover letter/writing samples, CLE courses, evaluations, references, transcripts, etc...)

    The key is get into the door, then wow them with your organization, thoroughness, and have an answer to all their questions.

    By the way, thanks jefhatfield.
     
  20. awrc macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #20
    Yeah, I'm 5 for 5 on turning interviews into job offers, it's getting the resume right so I get the interview that's still proving tricky.

    I don't count the one where I got to the third interview, as one of two candidates, then never heard from them again (after a third interview you at least owe the candidate a phone call). I found out a month or so later that they'd had a hiring freeze imposed, but still...

    There's another job-hunting question - the wisdom of holding grudges against a major local employer because they treated you so poorly last time you interviewed - the company I refer to in the previous paragraph falls into this category - they've got several positions open right now that I'm an excellent match for, but I'm really having second thoughts about even applying after being left hanging before.
     
  21. macktheknife macrumors 6502a

    macktheknife

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    #21
  22. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #22
    i couldn't get to it since i think i tried to access it while you were working on your page

    i will try again

    jhatfield
     
  23. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #23
    if it's a big company, it could have been the specific management or department that you didn't like

    i worked for an "idiot" department within the federal government, and even though we all get paid within the same pay scale, some departments within the government are definitely "smarter" than others and not all gov employees are "govt slugs":D
     

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