Retina MacBook Pro Could Lose EPEAT Status

[KPOM]

What is apple thinking with the MBPR

No upgrade for ram,
No upgrade for the SSD
No replaceable battrie at all, and its glued in.

What the hell.

What if the macintosh was never made, Would 1984 been like what the book said?

Guess, I should go read it.

You know I thought apple was about creativity and choice and stuff like that,

Where is the choice? The choice of parts and such? I think to be honest my next computer is a pc running OSX

First of all, Apple WILL replace the battery in the RMBP for $199. You don't need to throw away a $2200 computer when the battery no longer holds a charge. Second, Apple's have never had the same degree of expandability as PCs. Steve Wozniak was the tinkerer. Steve Jobs was the businessman and designer, and he wasn't as much a fan of "choice" as he was in selling you what he thought was the best product he could produce.

The SSD is removable, and OWC has already created a replacement drive for the 2012 MacBook Air. My guess is that they will follow suit with the RMBP. However, in general, I think that we'll see a slowdown in the growth of onboard storage (and a step backwards now that SSDs are more common), and more reliance on the cloud. Both Google and Apple are staking their futures on the cloud.

If we see what's happening, not just with Apple, but with Samsung (its most formidable rival right now), sales and profits are driven mostly by mobile devices like the iPhone and iPad. Those devices aren't upgradable, and have sealed cases. The PC is headed in the same direction. It's becoming an appliance. Intel is on board with the Ultrabook project. Microsoft is following suit with the Surface and WinRT (the latter of which won't even be sold standalone - so no "Boot Camp" for iPads, I guess). All-in-one "disposable" solutions are becoming the norm.

It's a sea change, to be sure, and undoubtedly disappointing to many used to the days of ultra customizability and tweaking (prevalent from the 1980s through the 1990s), but for that's the direction of the entire industry.

 

[macintoshi]

- Really? Why does it matter what color your computer is? It's a computer not a fashion accessory.

Of course a choice of black aluminium would be very nice!

 

[NAG]

I've also been really surprised with the trend of MBP's and MBA's with all these non replacable parts. They've put so much thought into the designs that I refuse to believe that this is the only way. I think they are purposefully designing them this way to encourage more people to throw them out instead of upgrading.

In fact, with the outer body largely remaining the same, why not even make them so that you can replace the logic board from say a 2009 model like mine to a new 2012 model? Some ports have changed, but if they wanted to, I'm sure the could have designed their new logic boards to have the newer ports in the place where the larger ports used to be and users could fit them in with adapters.

They don't care about the environment, they just care about profit.

Yes, you've caught Apple. They don't really want to make a usable tablet that is light and thin. Those thick and heavy, upgradable Windows tablets were selling like hotcakes until Apple used their reality distortion time machine. They want to destroy the rainforest by using glue, which is Captain Planet's kryptonite!

I love false dichotomies. It makes not thinking so easy!

 

[KPOM]

In fact, with the outer body largely remaining the same, why not even make them so that you can replace the logic board from say a 2009 model like mine to a new 2012 model? Some ports have changed, but if they wanted to, I'm sure the could have designed their new logic boards to have the newer ports in the place where the larger ports used to be and users could fit them in with adapters.

They don't care about the environment, they just care about profit.

By that logic, shouldn't I be able to upgrade a 2006 car to the latest model by dropping in the new engine and suspension? After all, the body might not have changed much.

To some extent, what you are talking about has long been possible with desktops. Intel created a socket to enable switching processors. The ATX-style motherboard design hasn't changed much in years. However, people aren't much into "upgrading" as they are into getting new items. At the end of the day, it costs as much or more to "update" an old computer in a meaningful way as it does to get a new one.

 

[DoNoHarm]

By that logic, shouldn't I be able to upgrade a 2006 car to the latest model by dropping in the new engine and suspension? After all, the body might not have changed much.

To some extent, what you are talking about has long been possible with desktops. Intel created a socket to enable switching processors. The ATX-style motherboard design hasn't changed much in years. However, people aren't much into "upgrading" as they are into getting new items. At the end of the day, it costs as much or more to "update" an old computer in a meaningful way as it does to get a new one.

That would be great, actually. Instead of cash for clunkers, people could just throw in a 40mpg engine into an older car and not have the inconvenience of having to buy and sell. It would reduce pollution and free up cash to be invested in other endeavors.

Of course, it will never happen because it compromises profitability for the company. Just goes to show you that the companies only go so far with making environmentally friendly products....

 

[MuppetGate]

No black / white colored Apple products any more......people should have a choice when it comes to colors.

And this is really important to you is it?

 

[DoNoHarm]

Yes, you've caught Apple. They don't really want to make a usable tablet that is light and thin. Those thick and heavy, upgradable Windows tablets were selling like hotcakes until Apple used their reality distortion time machine. They want to destroy the rainforest by using glue, which is Captain Planet's kryptonite!

I love false dichotomies. It makes not thinking so easy!

Actually, you're the one creating the false dichotomy and your post seems a little angry. You don't need to use glue to have a thin tablet. You can still have 99% of the battery volume by using 3 teenie screws to keep it fixed. And having the battery be easily replaceable with a new one means the user will quickly make up for that 1% if/when the user decides to recycle the battery.

 

[NAG]

Actually, you're the one creating the false dichotomy and your post seems a little angry. You don't need to use glue to have a thin tablet. You can still have 99% of the battery volume by using 3 teenie screws to keep it fixed. And having the battery be easily replaceable with a new one means the user will quickly make up for that 1% if/when the user decides to recycle the battery.

The I'm rubber and you are glue defense. Glad to see you at least dropped the whole Apple destroys the rainforest for money argument, though.

And sorry about you being confused. Hopefully you're able to better determine when someone is angry in the future.

Other than that, your post was pretty meaningless as you basically restated your point with zero evidence to support your claims.

 

[KPOM]

Actually, you're the one creating the false dichotomy and your post seems a little angry. You don't need to use glue to have a thin tablet. You can still have 99% of the battery volume by using 3 teenie screws to keep it fixed. And having the battery be easily replaceable with a new one means the user will quickly make up for that 1% if/when the user decides to recycle the battery.

Most people won't need to replace the battery. When they do, most will take it to Apple anyway. I don't see how not using glue would make much difference.

 

[DoNoHarm]

The I'm rubber and you are glue defense. Glad to see you at least dropped the whole Apple destroys the rainforest for money argument, though.

And sorry about you being confused. Hopefully you're able to better determine when someone is angry in the future.

Other than that, your post was pretty meaningless as you basically restated your point with zero evidence to support your claims.

And now your post seems passive-agressive.

----------

Most people won't need to replace the battery. When they do, most will take it to Apple anyway. I don't see how not using glue would make much difference.

I agree - although it would be nice for those who do to have the option to do it themselves. And those who won't would benefit from higher resale value from a device that is still in demand from those who are fine with replacing the battery and still using the device.

 

[MuppetGate]

Then what was the reason for pulling them in the first place?

I suspect that they couldn't get the Macbook Retina certified, so they pulled the whole line until EPEAT agreed to look at their standards. Once they got the agreement, they put all their gear back on the list, including the Macbook Retina.

I think Apple fears downgrading and negative publicity, as the new devices have higher power usage and worse recyclability than their predecessors.

Well, we don't know they are worse for recycling, so I can't really comment on that.

The power usage is also debatable. The screen definitely draws more power, but this can be partially offset by improved airflow and the lack of a hard disk motor.

But I think you're right: the Macbook Retina does draw more power. The screen is better, the chip is faster. So what do you suggest? Apple should cripple the machine to keep EPEAT happy? I would rather see them leave EPEAT permanently.

 

[NAG]

And now your post seems passive-agressive.

Nah, I'm just bored by trolls.

 

[jtrenda33]

Who cares.

 

[rmwebs]

I think this whole gluing the battery in thing is the worst idea Apple has ever had.

Batteries are consumable. They need to be replaced eventually. They contain toxic chemicals and need special handling for recycling.

Why did anyone at Apple think gluing the battery in was a good idea? It makes warranty service on the battery more expensive for the company. Surely a mounting screw does not occupy THAT MUCH space!

A glued-in battery is barely forgiveable on a $500 iPad. On a $2000 laptop with a much bigger battery? It's preposterous.

I agree completely. I've taken to either:

A) selling my macs & upgrading when they are around 2 years old to avoid having to deal with a dead battery after apple care expires)
or
B) taking a mac into the store for a battery change a week before Applelcare expires. Apple were the ones stupid enough to glue the battery in, so they can damn well pay for a new one.

 

[Pivs]

not an option for everyone

They also give out free pre-paid shipping labels...

 

[arkhanjel]

Probably not, actually. Government offices and corporations don't use Macs very much to begin with, and when they do they usually aren't portables. Assuming it just affects the RMBP, anyways.

Very true and the times they do use Macs they're aren't going to buy the high end laptop.

 

[MuppetGate]

That would be great, actually. Instead of cash for clunkers, people could just throw in a 40mpg engine into an older car and not have the inconvenience of having to buy and sell. It would reduce pollution and free up cash to be invested in other endeavors.

Of course, it will never happen because it compromises profitability for the company. Just goes to show you that the companies only go so far with making environmentally friendly products....

Your argument collapsed on the very first line. To begin with, if manufacturers were restricted by existing car frames then they would be unable to improve the engines in the first place. Any improvements in technology would be limited to satisfy backward compatibility. So you would not reduce pollution.

Secondly, fitting a 40mpg engine into an older frame would not give you a car that could do 40mpg. Why? Because the real improvements in fuel efficiency are down to other factors:

• Lighter materials to build the shell.
• Improvements in car aerodynamics.

And that's before we even talk about all the new safety features that wouldn't be supported by your old clunker.

Toyota is a prime example. They had to completely rethink their shell design to accommodate the batteries (sounds familiar). So under your scheme, we would have never got the Prius.

Incidentally, the battery pack on a Prius is guaranteed for 8 years. If it fails outside of the warranty, then it will cost $2000 + labour to replace it But what really sucks is that you can't do it yourself with a Philips screwdriver.

However, like Apple, they do offer incentives to make sure that people don't poison themselves or damage the environment by trying to save money by taking it to a mate who reckons he can do the job.

----------

You can still have 99% of the battery volume by using 3 teenie screws to keep it fixed. And having the battery be easily replaceable with a new one means the user will quickly make up for that 1% if/when the user decides to recycle the battery.

Nope. The problem isn't the screws; it's the brackets needed to accommodate the screws, and the screws needed to hold the brackets. Without the screws, they don't need the brackets. That means the batteries can be larger and/or the case can be thinner.

You don't drive screws through the battery into the case. You need brackets.

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

I knew it was daft of them to glue the battery in. Kinda pointless knowing that the air battery is just screwed in.

 

[swingerofbirch]

There's a lot of media reporting, including iFixit's very thorough review, but it seems like it's still not clear whether recyclers can separate the battery from the aluminum so that the battery cells can be refilled and thus reused and the aluminum recycled.

Apple obviously thinks that it can either remove the battery or perhaps just refill the cells since it offers mail-in service.

I think Apple must still be unsure about the recyclability of the computer itself since it originally pulled the computers from EPEAT and when it added them back did not make a statement on the rMBP.

The fact that Apple wouldn't know, after the product is already announced and shipping, seems a bit odd given its commitment to the environment and certainly leaves customers confused.

 

[r.harris1]

Reading through the multitude of posts during the course of the EPEAT shenanigans, it has become clear to me that what really bothers most people is less the recyclability of certain Apple products (though for a few on here it seems genuinely important) but more the inability to throw in a new battery themselves or upgrade RAM post purchase. EPEAT has become the lightning rod for this sort of person.

With my current late 2008 uniMBP, I upgraded the RAM after the fact and had to install a new battery. Because I spent many years building my own PCs with all of the latest this/that I was pretty comfortable doing the work but I have to say that anymore, I'm happier to pay people to do stuff for me and to max out the RAM at the get go. A little more expensive, but when I add in my time to do the work, it about evens out anyway. And that said, I'm done maxing out: RAM can't be expanded further, battery can be replaced but doing so myself isn't top on my priority list.

I also used to take pride in how long I kept one of my bespoke PCs running. But really, at the end of 5-7 years, the innards had been replaced so often that the only thing the same was the case. And in terms of cost both in equipment and more importantly (for me), my own time, it is a wash for me to buy new equipment more frequently and have other people deal with it. After all, as a software developer, the machines are my bread-and-butter.

These days, I am happier using my chosen tools than tinkering with them. To be honest, the recyclability of a product has never entered into a purchasing decision and probably won't ever do so. And you know why? Is it because I am an uncaring heartless bastard? Maybe, but really, it's because it's so much a part of our first-world society anymore that I don't have to really consider it. Most equipment manufacturers have a recycling program in place, whether it's to take it to some independent third party or return it directly to the manufacturers themselves.

So the next time I'm out to get a power hungry machine with a glued in battery and maxed out soldered RAM, I won't hesitate to grab the machine of my choice and because for me, Apple makes products that satisfy my current desire for both form and function, a nice rMBP might be the right choice.

 

[ValSalva]

I haven't read all these posts but two words come to mind: heat gun.

 

[Stridder44]

Retina MacBook Pro Could Lose EPEAT Status

To the surprise of no one

 

[gnasher729]

Reading through the multitude of posts during the course of the EPEAT shenanigans, it has become clear to me that what really bothers most people is less the recyclability of certain Apple products (though for a few on here it seems genuinely important) but more the inability to throw in a new battery themselves or upgrade RAM post purchase. EPEAT has become the lightning rod for this sort of person.

Nah, what bothers people is that they don't have the cash to afford the Retina MBP. Battery for a 2006 MacBook costs $129. Lasts 300 charges. Battery for a Retina MBP costs $199. Lasts 1000 charges. With 7 hours vs. 4 hours per charge. Do the maths.

According to people dissasembling the rMBP the glue is so strong that you can't remove it without damaging the battery, which would cause the battery to leak dangerous chemicals and present a firehazard.

They were not very good at it then, were they? Was that the same guys who tried to pull off the glass cover of an LCD screen that didn't actually have a glass cover? Just because the guys at iFixit haven't figured it out on their first attempt doesn't mean someone who knows what they are doing can't remove the battery quite easily.

I haven't read all these posts but two words come to mind: heat gun.

And I thought: Putty knife with a blade that vibrates at very high speed and cuts easily through hardened glue while leaving the softer battery untouched. Like a rotating saw that is used to cut through someone's plaster cast without damaging even the skin when it touches it.

 

[tomsamson]

Yeah, i wondered how credible that epeat certification is if Apple gets it granted for a device where so much glue is used.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Would I be satisfied with a "5 yr" lifespan on a $2000 laptop? Maybe not, but I'm honest enough to accept I never bothered replacing batteries in the ones I've owned.

I have. And disk drives. And memory. It used to be reasonably easy, and, there is no reason for that to change.