Discussion in 'macOS' started by bosrs1, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. bosrs1 macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    Does anyone out there have a copy of Rhapsody, preferably the x86 version but the PPC version would be cool too. More importantly would they be willing to part with it. I would really like to install this legacy OS on a PC or barring that my old powerbook to tinker around with.

    Or if anyone has a copy of OSX Server 1.0 I wouldn't be adverse to having a go with that either.
  2. dpaanlka macrumors 601


    Nov 16, 2004
    Neither of those two operating systems have an x86 version.
  3. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    Actually Rhapsody 5.0 and 5.1 were both available for the x86 platform. Probably should have been a tip off all those years ago that there was an Intel compatible version of OSX hiding in some dark corner in Cupertino.
  4. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Jan 5, 2006
    Redondo Beach, California
    What is it you want to do?

    What is it you want to do? Maybe there is something else you could use.. Wasn't Rhapsody written for the M68K?

    If you want there is OpenStep and this wil run on generic hardware Depends what your goals are.
  5. dpaanlka macrumors 601


    Nov 16, 2004
    Well if that's true, then I stand corrected. I wouldn't really know, as I never paid attention to anything other than the current Apple consumer OS of the time (Mac OS 8 and 9).
  6. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    Rhapsody 5.0 and 5.1 were written for PPC and x86 hardware Pentium class. Later 5.2 and on releases were written for PPC only (or at least the ones the got to the public were PPC only). And I just want it to play around with a bit of history. Openstep is nice, but it's not an Apple OS.
  7. link92 macrumors 6502

    Aug 15, 2004
    OPENSTEP (the name of the OS, OpenStep is the API standard) 4.2 was released by Apple after NeXT had been bought, so arguably the last version was an Apple OS :p
  8. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Aug 2, 2004
    Rhapsody 5.0 (first Rhapsody Developer Release) was pretty raw and was a mix of parts of Rhapsody and parts of OPENSTEP (the parts that weren't finished yet). I don't make much use of it as there wasn't much software for it and the interface wasn't complete (and was a little hard on the eyes).

    Rhapsody 5.1 (Rhapsody Developer Release 2) is a great OS. I've been running the Intel version on my ThinkPad 760 ED since around 2000 and has been completely trouble free for me. I actually use that system as my primary mobile computer (it has pretty much every hardware manual for all Apple's systems). While there is software out there for it, there is more for the PowerPC version than the Intel version.

    Finding either Rhapsody 5.0 or 5.1 is a very hard task these days... and the Intel versions are even more sought after than the PowerPC versions. I haven't seen 5.0 anyway in a couple years and 5.1 pops up once or twice a year on ebay (it was on ebay in Europe about three months ago).

    Also, in order to run Rhapsody 5.1 on a G3 you'll need a patch. Without the patch it treats a G3 like a 603e (getting about the same performance)

    Rhapsody 5.2 never made it off Apple's campus. But the foundation was what Apple used to start the Darwin project (and you can still find some Rhapsody 5.2 parts in the 0.1 Darwin release).

    Rhapsody 5.3 (Mac OS X Server 1.0) is a pretty good release to get. The boxed version (it some times gets split up when being sold) comes with the developer tools, WebObjects 4.0.1 and a third party apps CD. Right a way you'll want to update it. Apple release to updates... Rhapsody 5.4 (Mac OS X Server 1.0.1) and Rhapsody 5.5 (Mac OS X Server 1.0.2), though you really only need to install the second one (it includes all the parts of the first update).

    There are CDs out there that are labeled Mac OS X Server 1.1... this was a misprinting of CDs that really have Rhapsody 5.3 on them, so if you find one of those you'll still need to update to Rhapsody 5.5.

    Also once you are up to Rhapsody 5.5 you can update Blue Box from Mac OS 8.5 to 8.6.

    Rhapsody 5.6 (both Mac OS X Server 1.2 and 1.2v3) mainly added support for G4 processors. Other wise it is pretty much the same as Rhapsody 5.5. Sadly, Apple dropped the third party apps CD from the bundled CD in those releases.

    I have a ton of info on Rhapsody on my site... but it is having DNS issues right now (should be fixed later today).

    There was a time when I saw a copy of Rhapsody 5.3-5.6 on ebay once a week... now it is about once a month. I normally wouldn't think those would go for more than $50US... but the last one I saw went for $85US. :eek:

    Just so you know what you are looking for, I have a page on Rhapsody media (here, this is an older copy of the page) which includes examples of what the media looks like.
  9. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
  10. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Aug 2, 2004
    Well, my site is finally back up, so here is a list of recommended reading:That should help you get started... specially in knowing what hardware you can use with each version of Rhapsody.
  11. Dunepilot macrumors 6502a


    Feb 25, 2002
    Hi RacerX, I've seen a lot of your posts about Rhapsody (and remember reading about it now and then in the Mac press in the pre-OS X days). I was just wondering what it is that makes you so enthusiastic about this OS? I've seen elsewhere on MR that you use it for serious everyday tasks. Again, could you please explain a little more about what features it has that make it so appealing?

  12. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    I have to admit this has also intrigued me after I found your site. You do seem very dedicated to the old OS. I'm of course interested in it and would love to play with it, but you seem to have a deeper appreciation of it.
  13. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Aug 2, 2004
    Well, in the beginning (right after Apple acquired NeXT) I started using NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP to get familiar with the foundations of what the next version of the Mac OS was going to be based on. And I didn't want to just play with the stuff, I wanted to be as good at using those operating systems as I was at using the Mac OS.

    This required figuring out how to do things I would normally do on a Mac in NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. This wasn't too hard as I had spent time on NeXT systems before and there were applications out there for most of what I needed to do.

    When I got my first copy of Rhapsody (around 1999) I knew that Mac OS X was coming soon and I was just starting out servicing Macs. Well, I really needed to know more about what Apple had changed so I decided that the best thing to do was to remove OPENSTEP from my ThinkPad and put Rhapsody on it... and then make that system the one I used while in the field.

    The idea was that away from home I would only have Rhapsody to rely on (as it was the only OS on that system) to get my work done (as all my Apple documentation was also on that system). If something went wrong, I needed to be able to fix it to keep working, and the fixes would most likely be similar to those I would need to be able to do in Mac OS X.

    Even though I had Mac OS X Developer Preview 4 and the Public Beta, those were on systems which had Mac OS 9 on them, which meant I could always slip back to a safe environment rather than figuring out how to get the job done in Mac OS X. On my ThinkPad there was only Rhapsody to fall back on.

    As it turned out, Apple really deconstructed Rhapsody quite a bit to make Mac OS X. Some of the early developer previews were as bad as the first Rhapsody developer release (just not a fun environment to work in). And the progress was pretty slow on Mac OS X compared to Rhapsody. Rhapsody was pretty much finished by Rhapsody 5.1, which was released to help developers get apps ready for the first public release.

    Well, after spending a lot of time in Rhapsody I got really productive using that system. As with any operating system, no matter how good the OS is, it is only as productive as the applications that run on it. In the case of Rhapsody I got very good with the available apps.

    And when Mac OS X v10.0 was released, I wasn't all that impressed. In fact, other than trouble shooting other people's issues, I rarely used Mac OS X 10.0/10.1. I was still using Mac OS 8.6 for my high end pro apps and Rhapsody (by this point Mac OS X Server 1.2 on a PowerBook G3 Wallstreet) for everything else. My usage was 60:30:10 (Rhapsody:Mac OS 8.6:Mac OS X) at that time. And I did have apps (many of the same ones I used in Rhapsody) for Mac OS X, it just wasn't the system for me.

    So in August of 2002 Apple released Mac OS X v10.2. I had a spare hard drive and wanted to learn the new OS (which was quite different than 10.1) so I pulled the drive with Rhapsody on it out of my Wallstreet and put the other one in with 10.2 on it. I was running it on the condition that if it has to be shutdown or restarted at all over the next two weeks I would pull that drive and put my old Rhapsody drive back in.

    Honestly, it wasn't really a fair test. I let my wife use it a ton and then let a friend from out of town use it for a couple days.

    At the end of three weeks the system had an uptime of 21 days and a few hours. It had been running continuously (even when out of my possession) all that time. I put my old hard drive back in, backed up the data, wiped Rhapsody and installed 10.2 on that system.

    The PowerBook quickly became my primary computer... which made it a bad choice for caring around with me in the field. So this put my ThinkPad (which was still running Rhapsody and still had all my Apple documentation on it) back into full time service.

    This was about the time that I decided to do my Rhapsody Resource Page. I was doing a lot of installations on people's systems which means watching a lot of progress bars. So what better system to make a Rhapsody site on than Rhapsody. It would give me an answer to that question I always get "what can you do in Rhapsody?"

    So my Rhapsody site has been made only using Rhapsody native apps (with a little help early on from ImageReady to get image sizes down) on systems running Rhapsody.

    It turned out great... so I thought why not do it again with OPENSTEP for a NeXT site? Well, as it turns out, Apple made quite a few advances (and so did third part developers in their apps) that I enjoyed using in Rhapsody. So consequently, most of the NEXTSTEP & OPENSTEP Resource Page is made in Rhapsody too (with a few pages made in Mac OS X and OPENSTEP).

    Also my set up has evolved.

    When I started the Rhapsody page the only Rhapsody system I had running was my ThinkPad. The thing is, while nice, Rhapsody for Intel didn't have many of the same apps that Rhapsody for PowerPC did... and I really started missing those apps from when I was using Rhapsody on my Wallstreet.

    So one of my clients gave me a PowerMac 7500 and I added some parts I had to it to make it into a great little Rhapsody system. Then another client gave me an 8600/300, which is just about perfect for Rhapsody, and that is the system I spend most of my time on today.

    This is a current screen shot of my 8600 and the project I'm working on on it right now...

    So the obvious question is what does it take to be productive in Rhapsody?

    Well, a word processor is nice, and I've learned how to get the most out of every version of TextEdit. And because I use it so much, I replaced Apple's Java version with an Objective C version of TextEdit (makes it much nicer to work with).

    Then I also needed to do page layout, illustration and web design, all of those areas are actually covered by Stone Design's Create. In the screen shot above Create 10.0 is the app in front. This is usually the main app I spend my productive time in.

    Even with web pages made by Create, they aren't really ready for the web just yet. OmniWeb in Rhapsody has the same source code editor as in the current version of OmniWeb (which I also use in Mac OS X as my primary browser). I can open a page, edit and redisplay that page within OmniWeb. It also colors tags and highlights errors... so that is how I polish off a page before putting it up.

    Putting up a page in Rhapsody is pretty much the same as putting up a page in Mac OS X for me. I use RBrowser in both systems as my FTP client.

    Image editing can be done in TIFFany3 (which I have) but I can actually get most of what I need done with ToyViewer, PixelNhance, CuttingRoom and ToyAlbum (an image browser).

    I used to use MailViewer for e-mail, but I really like proofing what I write with text-to-speech, so most of my writing (and mailing) is done in 10.2 these days (I don't care for the accent in 10.3/10.4).

    And unlike Mac OS X, PDF is not built into Rhapsody. But there are some very nice PDF solutions for Rhapsody (which I cover on a page here).

    And then on top of all that, Mac OS 8.6 runs better in Blue Box than by itself on a system. In Blue Box memory management is handed over to Rhapsody. I just finished a splash animation using Flash 5 in Blue Box on my 8600 (I don't have a Mac OS X version of Flash) for a client. Plus I can run my old math apps in Blue Box (at pretty good speeds as can be seen here)

    I think that sort of gives an idea as to what I can do using Rhapsody, and how I can be very productive in it. And the other thing is that it is nice to have a platform all to myself. :D
  14. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    Well you do seem to be the only one using it at this point. I agree that it's very cool.
  15. Dunepilot macrumors 6502a


    Feb 25, 2002
    Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to respond to my interest. I must say - I really admire what you're doing there. It's very interesting to hear about another viable Mac-ish OS being used as a serious desktop solution.
  16. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    RacerX. Call me dense but was Mac OS X Server 1.2 still a derivative of OSX Server 1.0 and Rhapsody? Or was it a later release with Aqua and all the newer goodies.

    Also have you had any experience with Server 1.2 and what is your opinion of it.
  17. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Aug 2, 2004
    Mac OS X Server 1.2 (and 1.2v3) is Rhapsody 5.6... and looks identical to Mac OS X Server 1.0 (Rhapsody 5.3).

    The first Aqua version of Mac OS X Server was v10.0.3 (and was based on Mac OS X v10.0.3) which came out in the summer of 2001.

    I have a timeline page here.

    Tons. Both my PowerMac 8600 and 7500 are running Mac OS X Server 1.2 (or 1.2v3... I don't actually recall which is on which system). And I had my PowerBook G3 Wallstreet running 1.2 back in 2001-2002 and I may have installed 1.2 on my PowerBook 3400c last year... though it could have been 1.0 (I only had it on there for a week, Rhapsody doesn't work well at 800x600).

    The main difference between Mac OS X Server 1.0.2 (Rhapsody 5.5) and Mac OS X Server 1.2/1.2v3 (Rhapsody 5.6) is support for the G4 processor. Other than supported hardware and bug fixes Apple pretty much stopped changing anything with Rhapsody after the first release of Mac OS X Server. I believe most of the Rhapsody development team had been moved over to Mac OS X once Mac OS X Server 1.0 was ready for release.

    For those who haven't seen Mac OS X Developer Preview 1... it looks (and feels) almost identical to Mac OS X Server 1.0. The Aqua stuff wasn't added to Mac OS X until Developer Preview 3.
  18. bosrs1 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Feb 23, 2005
    Thanks for the input. I had an opportunity to grab X Server 1.2 and was just curious. I've gone ahead and gone for it.

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