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rp2011

macrumors 68020
Oct 12, 2010
2,337
2,653
Pressing the Netflix button on the remote and pressing the home button on a phone is a wash, TouchID or not. But on the Roku, that one button will launch the app whereas unlocking a phone does not. So, again, not a good example of how chromecast is easier or faster.

Also, every streaming device's app has a keyboard, so it's really nothing to shout about.



Mike
Ok ok I'll let you suffer how you want to. We all have our thing.
I'll just never buy a Roku again.
I may get an Apple TV on day but the way the neglected it, I may stay a Chromecast user until something better comes along.
But I would NEVER recommend a Roku to anyone. Not after owning one and knowing there are far better options
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
Ok ok I'll let you suffer how you want to. We all have our thing.
I'll just never buy a Roku again.
I may get an Apple TV on day but the way the neglected it, I may stay a Chromecast user until something better comes along.
But I would NEVER recommend a Roku to anyone. Not after owning one and knowing there are far better options
Perhaps you have an axe to grind. I have an ATV3, chromecast (2nd gen), Fire Stick and (2016 version) Roku Stick. At the moment the Roku is my favorite. I won't buy an AT4 without Amazon support.



Mike
 

Mudasir

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2016
4
5
I have both Roku 3 and Chromecast on my living room TV. In their present state, I wouldn't want to give up either one, as I really like both and they serve different use cases. Roku for putting on a TV show or movie -- I still like having the traditional physical remote that you don't have to look at to use and I don't have to go back to the smartphone app or Chrome browser tab to control what I'm watching. Chromecast for spontaneously throwing on a video or music -- it's simply fantastic for this purpose.

What I really want is something like Roku's top-end model combined with full Chromecast-style functionality, including the way the Chromecast uses HDMI-CEC. You can actually cast to a Roku for some apps (e.g. YouTube), but I'd like to see this go all the way. Too bad Google hasn't made it an open standard.

For all that chromecast can do... roku can too..

If youre using an iphone, download the app called "tv cast" and make sure you download the version for roku.
 
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milo

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2003
6,891
522
Not sure Apple will please you either. Not only are they relatively quick to quit updating "units we already have" (like :apple:TV3) but we all just waited for about a year to get a switch from white background to black and features like single sign in. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for some very simple features of :apple:TV1 to be resurrected in this :apple:TV4- stuff like using the "Show" tag to allow serialized movies like Star Wars or Harry Potter to show as one line item in the movie list instead of 6 and 8 movies. Or if that seems too discrete for the (always) defenders, how about just getting fast forward and rewind working very well?

Note: I think :apple:TV is great- have owned them all- but it consistently feels like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back or sometimes 1 step forward, 2 steps back product in how useful features get dropped, non-useful features get added, fundamental features get broken, gold masters go out with bugs that make one wonder if there was any real-world testing beforehand, etc.

If I got a different streaming device, good chance it wouldn't be Apple either.
 

rp2011

macrumors 68020
Oct 12, 2010
2,337
2,653
Perhaps you have an axe to grind. I have an ATV3, chromecast (2nd gen), Fire Stick and (2016 version) Roku Stick. At the moment the Roku is my favorite. I won't buy an AT4 without Amazon support.



Mike
No ax to grind, just like the better product.
And if you already have the Roku, why have the Fire stick too? Sounds redundant. Or more likely bs.

Roku now also offers a dongle instead of the box which is smart as it seems redundant when everyone already owns a smart phone with these apps already and probably far better computing power. I can't imagine why Apple doesn't go this route also as there are higher margins on their own smartphone than the Apple TV. Especially as they have shown little interest in it and blew a huge opportunity with it.

Apple should discontinue their Apple TV and just focus on a nice dongle to better compete with Google and stop losing money on their Apple TV
 
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CarlJ

macrumors 604
Feb 23, 2004
6,971
12,134
San Diego, CA, USA
Except that you don't have to have iTunes on the top shelf on the ATV4. I'm also one that thinks Roku needs to update their UI.
Indeed. The top row of apps on my AppleTV: Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, The Bat Player, and Apple's Music app. None of them are showing ads, they're showing me my recently added/played things and new/popular things I can watch for no additional fee*. This is useful.

It's been a while since I've used Roku(3) or Amazon FireTV, but I was substantially underwhelmed by the interfaces, compared to the AppleTV. And yeah, I don't like ads - trying to sell me something - on the screen.

*: (Actually, YouTube puts up a montage of simplistic artwork, wasting the opportunity, and I wish they'd change that - but I keep it in the top row because I use it so much.)
 
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Foxglove9

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2006
1,632
249
New York City
I've had different Roku's since the original models and love them. I got an Apple TV last Christmas, and it's great for mirroring and games, but I still like the overall ease of use better on the Roku. These new models look like nice upgrades but nothing essential to make me want to upgrade just yet.
 
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bladerunner2000

Suspended
Jun 12, 2015
2,511
10,478
That looks like potentially a pretty nice/capable little box.

At what point did Apple excitedly advertise the USB port to you as a useful feature for consumers? The only mention of it on their page for the AppleTV – not on the main page, but under "Tech Specs" – is, "USB‑C for service and support". "Service ports" on consumer devices (especially TV-related) are not exactly a new thing. Would you be happier if they dreamed up some proprietary connector for this instead? Or hid it behind a little door that says, "Do Not Open" on it? Or are you just looking for more things to complain about?

Why are you being an apologist? The AppleTV is sold to consumers with a USB port but they (YOU) can't use it. This is clearly a bone-headed move. You have to have your head buried in the sand if you think otherwise.
 

CarlJ

macrumors 604
Feb 23, 2004
6,971
12,134
San Diego, CA, USA
There are a couple things about these boxes (Roku, AppleTV, etc) that bother me.
1: You cannot record streaming video with any of them. This means you're stuck watching ads. Ads waste a lot of time. Ad skipping was available way, way back when Sony introduced the betamax.
2: You can't record streaming video, meaning you cannot keep a copy of anything locally. Many of the providers limit the time any given video is available. Movies "expire," TV shows "expire" and you can't watch it again unless you pay for it.
...
Regardless, as long as we can't record and can't skip ads, I see these streaming services as a big step backwards.
I understand this in theory, but in practice my experience with streaming services is much different than you might expect. I gave up cable TV a while back, switching entirely to Netflix and Hulu streaming on the AppleTV. I never had Tivo or a DVR, I just had "cable" (aka 200 channels, 5 of which you actually like). I'm paying Netflix and Hulu a tiny fraction of what I was paying the cable company, and really don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. Netflix doesn't have ads and Hulu Plus has no ads except for a couple of shows (people who get all upset about "Hulu Plus costs money AND HAS ADS!!1!" are unfamiliar with it in practice, or are looking for something to be outraged by - the only ads I've ever seen on Hulu were on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and it was one ad at the beginning, and one ad at the end of each episode, both pretty short and non-screaming - big deal - some shows have contracts that Hulu can't get around). So, in practice? Ads are basically non-existent to me. Oh, I tend to watch the daily news broadcast on the ReutersTV app every day (you pick 10, 15, or 30 minutes and it gives you the top N stories that fit in that time, well reported by actual journalists vs. the anything-for-ratings "news" you get on TV these days), and that program tends to have two embedded non-screaming ads of perhaps 20 seconds each, so they get me for a whole 2/3rds of a minute a day there. It's a reasonable trade for the news update provided.

So that's under a minute of ads a day, and the rest of the time I don't have to put any effort into riding the fast forward/etc to skip ads, I just watch the shows. You likely end up seeing more ads than I do, each day, just because of the inevitable small miscalculations in trying to skip over them all - for me they're not there in the first place.

As well, some of the best "TV" these days is only on streaming: House of Cards and Orange is the New Black are absolutely two of the best series I've watched in the last five years - they're seriously HBO-good - and they're only on Netflix. Amazon and Hulu are doing some groundbreaking new work as well, I think. If you stick with just cable TV, you're missing out on some really fabulous content. Oh, and no ads there, either.

Yes, some things do go away eventually, but I don't want to watch every show/movie all the time. And if I want to watch something right now and it's not on, I can buy it or rent it. And keep in mind I can buy or rent a LOT of things every month and still end up paying way less overall (Netflix + Hulu + rentals) than I was paying for cable. And I don't have to worry about physical or disk-based storage space - no managing shelves of DVDs, no juggling Tivo/DVR contents, deciding what to sacrifice to make room for something that starts in five minutes.

And if you do happen to have an existing large collection of video content on your home network, just download and fire up the Plex or Infuse apps and the AppleTV becomes a great front-end for watching that content.

There are people who take this route (cut the cord and stream with an AppleTV, Roku, FireTV, etc.) and find a few shows they really want to stay current on even though they aren't available (or aren't entirely available) from Netflix/Hulu, so they buy a "season pass" for the show from iTunes (in the AppleTV case), and get the episodes as they come out. I did something like that last year when I got hooked on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and wanted to binge-watch all the back episodes and there was a season's worth that wasn't available otherwise - bought a season pass for the missing season and satisfied my craving - still came out way ahead of my old cable bill that month.

And, again, I'm watching less than a minute of ads per day. I can live with that.
[doublepost=1474938790][/doublepost]
The Rokus are my go to device for my streaming (Amazon Prime when, Apple?) and the ATV has become my new niche device when I need it (like when I want to AirPlay my niece's soccer games using my iPad Pro or MacBook Pro).
The Rokus are (at least mostly) good devices, though my preference is for the ATV4. But as to Amazon Prime, don't ask Apple about it, direct your ire at Amazon. I'm annoyed by this. I'm paying Amazon for Prime, which includes their Amazon Prime Video. Amazon will stream video to my iOS-based iPhone and iPad using their existing iOS app, but Amazon refuses to tweak that app to run on the iOS-based AppleTV4, and they also refuse to sell, or allow any 3rd-party Amazon Marketplace dealer sell, the Apple TV, because that might "confuse" buyers. Uh huh. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with Amazon wanting to make an easier place to sell their FireTV. And they call Apple a "walled garden".
 
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npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,756
1,965
I need two, one like Apple TV, and one like Google Chromecast or Amazon Fire Stick. That is it. Home use the main TV, travel with a stick device. Now to complete my perfect world, all deliverers of content have an app on all devices. Happy Camper!
 

thebroz

macrumors member
Jun 21, 2012
37
59
Arizona
I understand this in theory, but in practice my experience with streaming services is much different than you might expect. I gave up cable TV a while back, switching entirely to Netflix and Hulu streaming on the AppleTV. I never had Tivo or a DVR, I just had "cable" (aka 200 channels, 5 of which you actually like). I'm paying Netflix and Hulu a tiny fraction of what I was paying the cable company, and really don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. Netflix doesn't have ads and Hulu Plus has no ads except for a couple of shows (people who get all upset about "Hulu Plus costs money AND HAS ADS!!1!" are unfamiliar with it in practice, or are looking for something to be outraged by - the only ads I've ever seen on Hulu were on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and it was one ad at the beginning, and one ad at the end of each episode, both pretty short and non-screaming - big deal - some shows have contracts that Hulu can't get around). So, in practice? Ads are basically non-existent to me. Oh, I tend to watch the daily news broadcast on the ReutersTV app every day (you pick 10, 15, or 30 minutes and it gives you the top N stories that fit in that time, well reported by actual journalists vs. the anything-for-ratings "news" you get on TV these days), and that program tends to have two embedded non-screaming ads of perhaps 20 seconds each, so they get me for a whole 2/3rds of a minute a day there. It's a reasonable trade for the news update provided.

So that's under a minute of ads a day, and the rest of the time I don't have to put any effort into riding the fast forward/etc to skip ads, I just watch the shows. You likely end up seeing more ads than I do, each day, just because of the inevitable small miscalculations in trying to skip over them all - for me they're not there in the first place.

As well, some of the best "TV" these days is only on streaming: House of Cards and Orange is the New Black are absolutely two of the best series I've watched in the last five years - they're seriously HBO-good - and they're only on Netflix. Amazon and Hulu are doing some groundbreaking new work as well, I think. If you stick with just cable TV, you're missing out on some really fabulous content. Oh, and no ads there, either.

Yes, some things do go away eventually, but I don't want to watch every show/movie all the time. And if I want to watch something right now and it's not on, I can buy it or rent it. And keep in mind I can buy or rent a LOT of things every month and still end up paying way less overall (Netflix + Hulu + rentals) than I was paying for cable. And I don't have to worry about physical or disk-based storage space - no managing shelves of DVDs, no juggling Tivo/DVR contents, deciding what to sacrifice to make room for something that starts in five minutes.

And if you do happen to have an existing large collection of video content on your home network, just download and fire up the Plex or Infuse apps and the AppleTV becomes a great front-end for watching that content.

There are people who take this route (cut the cord and stream with an AppleTV, Roku, FireTV, etc.) and find a few shows they really want to stay current on even though they aren't available (or aren't entirely available) from Netflix/Hulu, so they buy a "season pass" for the show from iTunes (in the AppleTV case), and get the episodes as they come out. I did something like that last year when I got hooked on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and wanted to binge-watch all the back episodes and there was a season's worth that wasn't available otherwise - bought a season pass for the missing season and satisfied my craving - still came out way ahead of my old cable bill that month.

And, again, I'm watching less than a minute of ads per day. I can live with that.
[doublepost=1474938790][/doublepost]
The Rokus are (at least mostly) good devices, though my preference is for the ATV4. But as to Amazon Prime, don't ask Apple about it, direct your ire at Amazon. I'm annoyed by this. I'm paying Amazon for Prime, which includes their Amazon Prime Video. Amazon will stream video to my iOS-based iPhone and iPad using their existing iOS app, but Amazon refuses to tweak that app to run on the iOS-based AppleTV4, and they also refuse to sell, or allow any 3rd-party Amazon Marketplace dealer sell, the Apple TV, because that might "confuse" buyers. Uh huh. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with Amazon wanting to make an easier place to sell their FireTV. And they call Apple a "walled garden".
[doublepost=1474949114][/doublepost]CarlJ, you make some very good points.

A couple minor things.

My TiVo skips commercials instantly. It's a feature called "Skip Mode" and it's fairly new. Hit the green button, and the program advances past the commercials instantly, no matter how many or how long the commercial stretch might be. No overshooting, or undershooting.

I subscribe to Amazon and Netflix, and agree that House of Cards is a great show, as is Longmire. It's not the same caliber as Breaking Bad of Better Call Saul, but it's in there. Better Call Saul is not available on Hulu.

I never, ever, ever get close to running out of space on my TiVo. Lots and lots of room there.

Don't forget that my TiVo can record shows Over The Air, for free. So, I can get local news, and the best HD picture.

But, I agree with you that cable costs way too much, and I'm forced to pay for many channels I don't watch and don't want. My annual cable contract is running out in a few months, and I'll have another look at Hulu and others. But, if I ditch cable, my internet service cost will go up quite a bit. Seems like "streaming only" is not a clear win, depending on what you watch.

Thanks for the suggestion, and encouragement to ditch cable. I'll have to do the math.
 
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Black Belt

macrumors 65816
Jun 15, 2007
1,036
944
California
I love my Apple TVs (3&4). The interface is great and the remote for the ATV4 is phenomenal. The only thing it doesn't have is an Amazon Prime app and that is due to Bezos being obstinate. It would take 10 Minutes to port the iOS App. Amazon Prime video isn't my first choice anyway as the selection is a little dismal and the streaming is sometimes poor. But it is free to subscribers so it would be nice if they put customers first. I prefer Netflix then Hulu.

The ATV connection to my massive iTunes library is amazing. It just works, with zero setup.
 
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mclog

macrumors newbie
Sep 8, 2010
15
0
I really am looking forward to a single device that allows me to watch Netflix, Amazon, HBO and my local library that supports 4K and HDR. Having to use a combination of my smart TV, Apple TV and UHD BluRay player to watch these is kind of annoying.

NVidia Shield is your closest option at the moment. Amazon isn't official yet (although they say it's coming), but there is an unofficial way to get it working that looks pretty straightforward, although 4k content doesn't work through it.

Shield supports all the 4K stuff including HDR.
 

JackANSI

macrumors 6502a
Feb 3, 2011
558
413
First, it was the user who first responded to me that put me into the idiot category. I just went with it because idiots are people too. #idiotlivesmatter

Second, you and someone else above said the buttons are not confusing when viewed in context or by comparing to their nearby buttons. This is incorrect for two reasons. (1) The design of an icon or a visual cue on the button should stand on it's own. Users should not have to search around for context, especially when the task is common and trivial - going back in the menu. (2) In arguendo, the context here does not lend any help. This button View attachment 659563 being in the same row as View attachment 659565 and View attachment 659566 , and above View attachment 659567 does not help understand what that little circular arrow does? It looks sort of like the refresh button on an internet browser, but it's above the linear player controls which implies it has something to do with linear controls. On the flip side, it's next to a search icon and a totally ambiguous asterisk which implies it is not related to linear controls. What does this button do?

Third, it's funny that a few folks have tried to poke holes in my argument but none have actually answered the question: which of the buttons is actually the back button in the UI?

I want Roku to be better. I like the idea of a company other than Apple, Google, Amazon, or Microsoft innovating this category. I want there to be some serious competition in the set-top box category. But I will not give this company a pass for having such an awful user interaction design year after year. Especially when it is their fifth generation of products - their user interaction design should not be so awful.

You did the same thing again... removing the buttons from context to complain about them. Way to go!

Seriously though, how do the "non-techie grandparents, spouses, and the like" know the menu button on the aluminum AppleTV remote is the back button?

It says "menu" not "back" but it serves that "back" purpose in about half of the interactions. How does this work? All magically properties of the device aside, it works because of context. Exactly like the buttons on the Roku. (if you wouldn't keep cutting them out to stubbornly try to cling to your erroneous argument)

You're just out of your depth. Stick to one of these if the Roku confuses you:

imote-kid-remote-264x500.jpg
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,978
13,990
You did the same thing again... removing the buttons from context to complain about them. Way to go!

Seriously though, how do the "non-techie grandparents, spouses, and the like" know the menu button on the aluminum AppleTV remote is the back button?

It says "menu" not "back" but it serves that "back" purpose in about half of the interactions. How does this work? All magically properties of the device aside, it works because of context. Exactly like the buttons on the Roku. (if you wouldn't keep cutting them out to stubbornly try to cling to your erroneous argument)

You're just out of your depth. Stick to one of these if the Roku confuses you:

imote-kid-remote-264x500.jpg

What's with the personal attacks? We're having a discussion about remote controls. There is no need for bile.

The reason I know the "menu" button on the AppleTV remote is the back button is because there are only 4 buttons. Volume up is not back. Volume down is not back. Play/pause is not back. Easy peasy. On the Roku, that process of elimination is much longer, and it doesn't even have volume buttons. Also because I have been trained since the first iPod to associate "menu" with back.

You say "context" but what context? Context needs to be explained. I'm pointing out that the Roku, for yet unknown reasons, places four buttons that all look like they could be back. Are all four of those really necessary? Does a remote need a d-pad left and a dedicated rewind button? Pretty much every other set-top box remote has one button for both functions. Does a remote need that circle back button button? Wth does that button even do? And what does the asterisk button do? Asterisk seems to be the opposite of context, it's intentional ambiguity.

And the four dedicated app buttons just seal the deal. Of the four major set-top boxes today (AppleTV, Roku, FireTV, nVidia Shield), the Roku has the worst remote design, by far. You posted that children's remote as a jab at my intelligence, but the irony seems to be lost on your. Not only is that remote simpler, and includes volume controls, it's also strikingly similar to the Roku remote with the awful dedicated buttons.
 
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thebroz

macrumors member
Jun 21, 2012
37
59
Arizona
NVidia Shield is your closest option at the moment. Amazon isn't official yet (although they say it's coming), but there is an unofficial way to get it working that looks pretty straightforward, although 4k content doesn't work through it.

Shield supports all the 4K stuff including HDR.
TiVo has Netflix, HBOgo, Plex, Amazon, Hulu, Vudu, YouTube, and others, built in. 4K too.
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
And the four dedicated app buttons just seal the deal. Of the four major set-top boxes today (AppleTV, Roku, FireTV, nVidia Shield), the Roku has the worst remote design, by far.
In your opinion maybe. Certainly not fact. I like my Roku remote better than my ATV and Fire Stick remotes.

I hate having one button perform "back" and "menu" and whatever. Too many times I ended up at the home screen, only to have to launch the app again, on my ATV and Fire Stick. In my opinion there is such a thing as too many remote buttons and too few. The Roku remote is a nice balance.

I also love Roku's headphone jack on the remote feature. I don't have that on my Roku Stick's remote, but I can use remote audio to send the audio to my iPhone instead of playing it on the TV.



Mike
 

richpjr

macrumors 68040
May 9, 2006
3,504
2,253
Really scratching my head at all this debate on remotes. I think most people figure out their remotes after about 5 minutes and it's not an issue ever again. I don't find any remote difficult to use, but have replaced the various ones from my TV, ATV, BluRay and cable box with a Harmony to have a single remote. But to each his own.
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
Really scratching my head at all this debate on remotes. I think most people figure out their remotes after about 5 minutes and it's not an issue ever again. I don't find any remote difficult to use, but have replaced the various ones from my TV, ATV, BluRay and cable box with a Harmony to have a single remote. But to each his own.
It's not a debate. It is one person who supposedly can't figure out a simple remote. (But can figure out how to download and edit pics of its buttons, and post them individually and ad hoc to an online forum. Yea that makes sense.)



Mike
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,500
7,380
I want a cheap audio AirPlay adapter from Apple.
I have Chromecast and it's the simplest easiest most useful and cheapest TV accessory you can buy. ... And I'm an Apple guy.

This - the 2nd/3rd gen Apple TV came the closest, but not much good for audio only (unless your Amp has SPDIF or HDMI in).

Apple need simple "headless" AirPlay dongles for video and audio to compete with Chromecast and Chromecast Audio (or bake Chromecast support into iOS so its not reliant on the App provider implementing it... ok, yeah, that ain't gonna happen). Also, don't accept video/audio apps for the App Store if they don't fully support AirPlay!

This industry is really customer hostile at the moment: I have a Chromecast, an Amazon Fire TV, an Apple TV 2nd Gen (and have just decommissioned a Raspberry Pi Kodi box) not to mention now-unsupported "Smart TV" features in the TV set and BD player and not one of them satisfactorily covers all the options. I fear most people are going to need at least 2 dongles/boxes. I have the cash/inclination to play with various options, but that's going to grate for some people.

Getting the Pi going was satisfying - I was using Kodi as a front-end to a separate PC running MythTV PVR + file store - but lacks any official - i.e. (a) legal and (b) will still work in a month's time - support for catch-up TV and paid streaming services.

The Amazon Fire TV seems the best all-rounder: reasonable Netflix client, all the major UK catch-up TV apps, plus Plex (for offline playback & MythTV) & Kodi can be side-loaded without any serious rooting & worked for me with no complications (currently trying to decide on Plex vs. Kodi) - plus, I might subscribe to Amazon Prime again in the future - or just buy stuff from them that I really want.

An iPad airplay-ing to the Apple TV probably has the best "coverage" and can fill in the gaps - but that's the only function of the Apple TV I really want.

(Anybody know if any of the 'AirPlay' apps for Fire TV/Android TV actually work? 3rd party AirPlay tends to break with every iOS update)
 

JoeShades

macrumors 68000
Sep 1, 2010
1,553
798
Williamstown, NJ
Roku remote is terrible, I don't want buttons for things i may never use. The headphone thing is good but unless they changed things, the Roku remote does not control volume so i would have to buy a universal remote
 

JackANSI

macrumors 6502a
Feb 3, 2011
558
413
What's with the personal attacks? We're having a discussion about remote controls. There is no need for bile.

The reason I know the "menu" button on the AppleTV remote is the back button is because there are only 4 buttons. Volume up is not back. Volume down is not back. Play/pause is not back. Easy peasy. On the Roku, that process of elimination is much longer, and it doesn't even have volume buttons. Also because I have been trained since the first iPod to associate "menu" with back.

You say "context" but what context? Context needs to be explained. I'm pointing out that the Roku, for yet unknown reasons, places four buttons that all look like they could be back. Are all four of those really necessary? Does a remote need a d-pad left and a dedicated rewind button? Pretty much every other set-top box remote has one button for both functions. Does a remote need that circle back button button? Wth does that button even do? And what does the asterisk button do? Asterisk seems to be the opposite of context, it's intentional ambiguity.

And the four dedicated app buttons just seal the deal. Of the four major set-top boxes today (AppleTV, Roku, FireTV, nVidia Shield), the Roku has the worst remote design, by far. You posted that children's remote as a jab at my intelligence, but the irony seems to be lost on your. Not only is that remote simpler, and includes volume controls, it's also strikingly similar to the Roku remote with the awful dedicated buttons.

No personal attacks, just saying that for the class of user you seem to fall under, maybe the very basics might be a stretch.

It's good that you have prior experience with a "menu" button being a "back" button, but "menu" does not suggest "back" for everyone, unless of course the last place you were was the "menu". Someone would, rightly I might add, assume they can swipe/press the left on the Apple remote and go back, but... no... It's "menu". You're just ok with that because "Apple".

If you look at the remote as a whole (in context), it's quite obvious. Never had to explain it to anyone before and frankly didn't know that people existed who would be so dense.

It's like talking to a wall, except the wall might actually learn something...
 
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