Ronstadt Banned from Aladdin Casino for Pro-Moore Statements

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mactastic, Jul 20, 2004.

  1. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #1
    Why aren't we talking about this? ;)

    Link

    As Ari Fleischer so succinctly put it, we do indeed need to be careful what we say.
     
  2. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #2
    Three things:

    1) Politics can make strange bedfellows...(me and Linda...)
    2) Evidently Linda's fan base (such as it is), is not really Left-wing it would seem, perhaps a misjudgement on her part...
    3) If she (or anyone) had made pro-Bush (or pro-War) dedications, do you think the same result would've happened? (After all the Casino's official position was that they hire people to entertain, not to espouse political beliefs; hence, her dismissal.)
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #3
    "Bill Timmins, president of the Aladdin," was scared spitless that had he not loudly and publicly run her off, it would be bad PR for the Aladdin. The only thing that matters in Vegas is profit. Not much profit when folks come out from a show all irate, and go down the street to another casino.

    I don't really care one way or the other about Ronstadt's political views. However, when one goes for the "fun evening out", hearing serious political stuff can spoil it. There's a time and a place, and she picked the wrong time and the wrong place...

    :), 'Rat
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #4
    Yeah... pissed off people don't tend to stick around and gamble away their life savings. ;)

    The throwing of drinks and defacing/destroying of posters is uncalled for. All that did was create unneeded work for hotel staff. I hate it when people do mindless stuff like that.


    Lethal
     
  5. davecuse macrumors 6502

    davecuse

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #5
    Exactly, I just want to let it ride!
     
  6. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #6
    there was a link at another site i visit that had a response from a person who was at the show...i'll post it when i can find it again...but...

    the person said that there was an equal amount of cheering and booing after linda's comments. also, the witness said he saw NO drinks being thrown and no posters being ripped down...IOW, no "bedlam" at all. he said there were disgruntled people that were disappointed that linda didn't play much of her old material, just the nelson riddle orchestrated standards.

    it sounds like the aladdin is playing "cover your ass". of course, this is the best PR linda's had in years so good on her.

    edit:linkypoo
     
  7. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #7
    It sounds to me like Ronstadt gave a second-rate performance and the Moore comment gave Timmins an excuse to fire her.
     
  8. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #8
    Have to agree, she picked the wrong time and place. Or maybe the right time and place, if she really didn't want to perform at that venue again. And she got some PR, albeit maybe not necessarily positive PR. (If PR was her intent, it smacks of desperation.)

    I certainly know I could be "let go" or disciplined for making certain political comments to co-workers or customers. Most people have enough tact (or fear) to limit their comments in a work environment -- and most don't have royalties to fall back on...

    Why isn't anyone talking about why pop singers don't seem capable of writing or performing songs which express political views anymore? I guess it's easier to pull a switcheroo and attempt to preach to a captive audience which didn't come for the sermon... At least if you write a clever, catchy (even subtle) song, people know what to expect, and politically they can take it or leave it. I mean, I don't agree with the lyrics of "Imagine", but it's still a great song... Seems like the country singers are the only ones who can wrap politics into song nowadays, or at least that's all I hear (and I don't even listen to country). The approach on these songs might be more ham-fisted than the usual clever wordplay, but I think it works in the country genre.

    I guess my point is, it's hard for someone to shout "Shut up and sing!" if the message is the song. But I guess songwriting is kinda hard even for songwriters, huh?

    (BTW, has anyone ever done a good tribute song to the Columbia space shuttle crew? I'd love to hear one.)

    Admittedly I'm out of touch with the music scene, maybe I'm missing some great stuff. All I hear is criminal-behavior-celebrating hip-hop and droning Nirvana knockoffs...
     
  9. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #9
    BTW, how exactly would one "shut up and sing"?

    Then again, I didn't coin it...
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #10
    Where is Tom Paxton, now that we really need him?

    :), 'Rat
     
  11. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #11
    -mactastic

    Haaah! :D Got me!

    Actually, I WAS wondering...

    I agree with the others, like Michael Moore himself at the Oscars, there is a proper time and place for everything. Expousing personal views, especially ones that the speaker knows that there are strong feelings about, in a venue not appropriate to it, pisses me off personally.

    After all, I'm sure this is why we have this particular dedicated forum, I can speak for you, but I really don't like it when I come across a politically charged discussion in 'Hardware Help'.

    So I understand Ronstadt's termination - though I think the boot from premesis was a bit extreme (maybe riot worries ;) )
     
  12. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #12
    patrick, do you think the Aladdin would boot an entertainer who went on stage and said we have to support our President in the war in Iraq? I don't think so.
     
  13. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #13
    Sayhey, I don't think it's fair to compare remarks supporting a President to remarks supporting a controversial and polarizing (searching for a nice term here) gadfly filmmaker. Remarks in support of the commander-in-chief, especially in times of war (whether one personally supports said war or not), are not as controversial IMO. So many other elements are tied into this - patriotism, support for the office of the President (if not the man), etc.

    (Not saying such a comment wouldn't trigger a similar response on the other side nowadays, however. Nor that one shouldn't criticize the President.)

    Moore, OTOH, is a celebrity, just like Britney.

    Well, maybe that's a stretch...

    A better comparison would be remarks in support of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, which would be similarly inappropriate in a mixed-audience setting.
     
  14. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #14
    While I'll agree that there are many reasons that go into a person's reactions to criticisms of a President, I don't agree that there is a fundamental difference with expressing support for President or with a prominent critic of a President. The problem is that our society is so polarized by the actions and policies of this administration that we have overreactions to expressions of political positions.

    Would I go to a performance of Todd Rundgren and be unable to stand his views to the point of throwing things on stage? If I did I would be pretty stupid; just as the outraged customers at the Aladdin reacted in a stupid and boorish manner.

    I also think the owners of the Aladdin can make decisions about who to employ (although depending on her contract, Ronstadt may have a good lawsuit) and patrons of casinos have the right to take those decisions in mind when they decide where to throw away their money.
     
  15. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #15
    -Sayhey

    Perhapse not, but then showing of support is always less combative and hack-raising than disparagement - we see it every day on these boards. It's all about presentation.

    But then, I can't speak for Aladdin on this. I, however, do know that my reaction to even a supportive comment would ranckle me if I went to a concert expecting something else. I'd feel used. ("Now that your here and a captive audience, I'm going to take advantage of that and do something your aren't paying me to do.")

    I guess I'm particularly sensitive to this sort of thing because of what I do in my job. I spend much of my day trying to keep people's eye on the ball.
     
  16. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #16
    What do you do? Are you a tennis coach?
     
  17. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #17
    Ronstadt is pretty well known for her left of center views, and also for speaking out. I doubt many of her fans in the audience were offended. But this is Vegas we're talking about -- attending a show in Las Vegas isn't about being a fan of the performer, it's about throwing around money like a high-roller and getting smashed. I think it's pretty amusing to think of anyone being offended by anything in Vegas. The outrage expressed by the casino owner has got to win the Irony of the Month award.
     
  18. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #18
    patrick, my point is that either what we have here is a further extension of the Dixie Chicks phenomenon or we have a right-wing Casino owner who can't stand dissent. All of which boils down to a choice between seeing Mr. Timmins as a coward or a thug or both. He may have a right to do what he did, but it sure wasn't something to be admired.
     
  19. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #19
    Trying... not to make... French Quarter joke... argh!
     
  20. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #20
    You go to certain events, you have certain expectations, right?

    George Carlin is a different deal from Lawrence Welk. You're probably be pretty hard put to be surprised at ANYTHING Carlin says. You wouldn't expect political stuff from Welk.

    Heck, I once went to a Nascar race, and was startled at a bunch of conservative views from some EmCee guy before the race. I was not there for a bunch of speechifying; I wanted to see the cars race.

    Hey, the Dixie Chicks sing real good. Politics? I'm pretty much fed up with political wisdom as accumulated by some 19-year-old...

    Ronstadt's like a lot of the old VietNam-era protest crowd: Nobody's paid any attention to them for almost thirty years, and they gotta make up for lost time...

    'Rat
     
  21. davecuse macrumors 6502

    davecuse

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #21
    The bottom line is, there's a time and a place for everything. If I started getting political (especially saying anything controversial) with the people I serve I would get canned as well. No one calls tech support for a lesson on who they should vote for, likewise people go to a concert to hear good music (well maybe not this concert) not to be lectured about who they should vote for.

    I don't really see the controversy here, she said something controversial that was out of place and she got asked not to come back. It bugs me when celebs get political, just like it bugs me that some people worship celebrity. They are just people who happen to be performers. If I want to get a lesson about life I'll go listen to a lecture from someone who actually deserves my respect.
     
  22. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #22
    Celebrities and Artists have always used their talents to express their views. If you don't like the views of one in particular, then don't go to their shows. As much as you may not like Ronstadt's views on Moore's film, it is not an excuse to throw things. The people who behaved badly in the audience and the Aladdin ownership are the problem not Linda.
     
  23. davecuse macrumors 6502

    davecuse

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #23
    So if something has "always" been, that automatically makes it right? All I have to say is, change is good.
     
  24. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #24
    Yeah, I agree, the CEOs of Diebold, KBR, FAUX News, etc, etc, should keep their mouths shut. They weren't hired to voice their political views.
     
  25. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #25
    Should all artists keep their mouths shut or is it ok for some to voice their views and others must keep silent? Because Ronstadt is mainly known as a singer, must she only communicate her ideas through her songs? Should artists only say the things that the majority of the audience feels comfortable with? Nah, I'd rather have folks who make you think. I can take or leave their message, but silencing their political views makes no sense to me.
     

Share This Page