Russia and Chechnya

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by JesseJames, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Considering that one of the planes that crashed in Russia this week was the result of terrorism, I'm intrigued about the root problem for all this.
    If Chechen separatists were responsible for this, why doesn't Russia just let them go?
    What is so important about Chechnya that Russia won't let them out of the Russian Confederation? Can someone educate me on this?
    Let's not forget that theater debacle either, where they used some kind of knockout gas to end the standoff.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

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    #2
    I don't think Chechnya was ever a distinct republic, unlike the 'Stans, Ukraine, etc. It was always part of Mother Russia, hence the difficulty.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

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    #3
    But aren't the Chechens ethnically/culturally very different from Russians?
     
  4. takao macrumors 68040

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    #4
    perhaps because a lot other provinces would dicide to 'go' too ;)

    well whats actually so interesting about that theather thing is that the gas they used (which is still unknown) compared to knock-out gases in the west at least 1 to 2 generations ahead in security,power and usability according to western experts for knock out gases...
    most people died after they got pulled out of the theather because the russian soldiers didn't know how to put them in a position that they dodn't swallow their own tongue...and that the corridors were to narrow for getting the people out faster...
    better trained soldiers and better coordination of rescue forces and they would have pulled the biggest surprise for counter terror troops taking over a building with over 1000 hostages...
    _any_ western police using gas would have killed _more_ hostages before the squads moved in than the russians lost through their lacking organization...
    i saw a 2 hour report about that on TV..it was amazing to see those western experts who still have no explaination what gas they used because no comparable gas exists in the west....

    ihave to admit that i was surprised as well ;)
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    Probably just another of those "white-men-drawing-arbitrary-lines-on-maps" scenarios. They just got caught on the wrong side of the line.
     
  6. Leo Hubbard macrumors newbie

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    #6
    Right, wrong, whatever, letting them go is now no longer the answer once they have resorted to terrorism. Never let a terrorist win. They crashed civilian planes as a means to get attention. Now lets give them some.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Unbelievable! You have not the faintest scrap of evidence, you know virtually nothing about Chechnya (I'm just guessing here...), and you are suggesting that "they" should be "given" something or other. Who are "they"? If you can't find "them", do you suggest high-altitude bombing of Grozny as a suitable response? This kind of stupid comment is as close to trolling as you can get.
     
  8. takao macrumors 68040

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    #8
    actually Grozny got bombed to shreds a ew years ago already so there would be not very much left:

    after the russians lost lots of tanks + troops against those seperatists in urban warfare they decided to pull troops out of the city and switched to artillery bombardements ...after a few days they sent in spetznas (sp) and special equipped tanks to wipe ...then artillery in different section of town etc etc.
    actually grozny still looks like some german towns after WW2 ..about 80+% of all houses completly destroyed ...

    edit: and excuse the errors of this post and that before (and all other that will follow this night) i had a few beers already
     
  9. JesseJames thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Well, I did a little bit of internet research right after posting this thread. I see that Chechnya is rich in mineral resources and of course - oil.
    But I'm not convinced that's the whole reason that Russia wants to keep it.

    You gotta hand it to those Chechin rebels though. They can hold their own against Mother Russia. I'm surprised that those Ruskies haven't just steamrolled through the country.
     
  10. takao macrumors 68040

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    #10
    if you mean "free roaming with troops and blowing nearly everything up" with "steamrolling" then i can assure you that they already tried that....
    i've still got those pictures of those fat russian mil-mi Hind helicopters shooting countless unguided rockets into buildings (or better ruins) in my mind when i hear about the chechynian (sp?) conflict...
     
  11. macsrus macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Oh yes it must be the evil white men.... lol
    where did that come from
     
  12. mypantsaretight macrumors newbie

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    #12
    Hmmmm. Something feels strangely familiar in Chechnya.

    Perhaps this is what I'm reminded of. Or maybe it was this. Or maybe the Russians just aren't as smooth yet as the West in these situations.

    m
     
  13. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Without meaning to be callous...this is an example of "you reap what you sow." In USSR: Stalin forced deportations and migrations of various ethnicities and cultures to minimize societal cohesion/cooperation on a local level (re: potential resistance) to benefit the Government's stabilty and power/control. These instabilities, as well as natural ones deriving from ethnic/cultural settlement patterns and/or previous Imperial wakes...can be smoothed over temporarily by an over-arching Tolitarian governance...but when the USSR crumbled...back to the surface they came with a vengeance...in fact, something so dramatic as the crumbling of an ideological empire that the USSR represented, thrust people into uncertain and fearful territory, making them much more apt to grasp at anything that might define them once again (usually in opposition to)...this is often virulent Nationalism and/or self-determination (see Yugoslavia)...

    throw in oil/natural gas interests, profoundly different cultures...and competing spheres-of-influence ...and you get a recipe for disaster.

    The US should know something about this...at least it is not (primarily) in our backyard...I believe Russia gets let off the hook by the International Community for the atrocities it has done in chechnya (and elsewhere) for the same reason the US is ultimately left alone...their strategic (and financial) value overrides any moral concerns of the suffering or the righteous...

    or something like that...
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

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    #14
    From a previous thread which strayed into the Evils of Imperialism...
     

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