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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
8,858
11,379
Good for Russia! I think it's a great policy. Keeping information inside the country is a good way to add a layer of protect to its citizens. It's also good because it forces linked in to put some money into a large country it probably gets a large profit from. LinkedIn is just a giant ad machine anyways. Who cares. They can afford to put a rack of servers in Moscow.
Here's the dilemma I find myself in with stories like this: I completely agree with what you're saying here (at least this part that I've excerpted)-- by keeping user data in the country, the country can insist that it be handled according to local law. For countries that have strong privacy protections, that's important.

The problem I have is that I know that's not why Russia wants this information in Russia. They want it where they can get to it.

I come from a reasonably stable and democratic country-- not perfect, but pretty good. My concerns are almost a perfect mirror image of those of someone with my sensibilities living in a more autocratic regime.

As much as I distrust any government accessing private data I believe that for the most part the more democratic governments of the US and Europe have mostly done so for security reasons so far. My problem with the US surveillance programs so far is that I'm afraid they can, in the wrong hands, eventually become what Russia and China's are today-- a tool of domestic political control. They haven't, but they could.

The US and European programs so far have had some unfortunate side effects and have accidentally caught some innocent people in drag nets, and I think that's a real problem. The bigger problem though is when that starts happening intentionally, and where social media is mined for signs of potential dissent and then action is taken against those people.

Many people in Russia are using US internet services specifically so their personal information is kept outside the country.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
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So, the US and EU had some unfortunate side effects, while Russia/China are plain evil? Someone forgets that US spies on even their most trustful allies. Go figure what they do to Russia, China, etc.

When will some understand that we (the west) are no better then China? Especially our media that is supposed to be 'free', but it is all but that. Liberals have destroyed the western culture. Some say we have free elections, but then Democratic party in US had rigged elections so Bernie couldn't win.

In EU if you oppose mass and uncontrolled migrations, well, then you are a facist. And as we can see in this very topic, if you oppose Hillary, you are obviously a dumb person that voted for Trump. Brainwashed all around, and we point fingers to Russians and Chinese. Great.
 

ateslik

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2008
401
523
Let's see what happens in the next 4 years. Then you can complain if Trump does nothing.

There is an extremely high probability that the thrice bankrupt former game show host will not produce the dramatic social and financial gains you expect.
 
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Dominicanyor

macrumors 65816
Apr 1, 2012
1,229
253
Florida
The Russians are in the fire with the United States anyway. A lot of politics going on and many people does not know what's going on behind close doors.
 

sudo1996

Suspended
Aug 21, 2015
1,496
1,182
Berkeley, CA, USA
It's cute that you think the NSA needs a backdoor.
Do you know because you work for them or something? Cause I'm so curious that I wanna get a job there just to find out whether the conspiracy theories are true.
[doublepost=1483897905][/doublepost]
LinkedIn, which has several million users in Russia, said it was "disappointed" by the news.
LOL
[doublepost=1483897988][/doublepost]
People who have "joined" LinkedIn have given that entity permission to access their contacts. Then the entity sends emails in the guise of invitations to those contacts as though they had been sent by the person who has "joined" LinkedIn. The same applies to Tagged, ShoppyBag and PCH, to mention a few (from personal experience).

"LinkedIn, which has several million users in Russia" - makes me wonder how many were duped into joining when they received those invitations from their friends.
Yeah, I deleted my LinkedIn account a while back because of that and kinda also because MS bought it. Honestly, I'm glad that they got screwed. They deserved it the second-most, behind Yahoo!.
[doublepost=1483898319][/doublepost]
When will some understand that we (the west) are no better then China? Especially our media that is supposed to be 'free', but it is all but that. Liberals have destroyed the western culture. Some say we have free elections, but then Democratic party in US had rigged elections so Bernie couldn't win.
Media isn't free? No, it's definitely free, even if there are biases. You're pointing fingers at Democrats, but you're ignoring Fox News. And there's also small media that'll have all kinds of different viewpoints.

The actual government elections are supposedly free. The Democratic party is a private entity, and they can legally endorse whichever candidate they want, even if they do it in a dishonest way that pisses off Americans enough to not support H. Clinton.
 
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sir1963nz

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2012
738
1,217
It was a mistake to underestimate the gullibility and blissful ignorance of the average Trump voter.

From 1926

No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

H.L. Mencken
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
Here's the dilemma I find myself in with stories like this: I completely agree with what you're saying here (at least this part that I've excerpted)-- by keeping user data in the country, the country can insist that it be handled according to local law. For countries that have strong privacy protections, that's important.

The problem I have is that I know that's not why Russia wants this information in Russia. They want it where they can get to it.

I come from a reasonably stable and democratic country-- not perfect, but pretty good. My concerns are almost a perfect mirror image of those of someone with my sensibilities living in a more autocratic regime.

As much as I distrust any government accessing private data I believe that for the most part the more democratic governments of the US and Europe have mostly done so for security reasons so far. My problem with the US surveillance programs so far is that I'm afraid they can, in the wrong hands, eventually become what Russia and China's are today-- a tool of domestic political control. They haven't, but they could.

The US and European programs so far have had some unfortunate side effects and have accidentally caught some innocent people in drag nets, and I think that's a real problem. The bigger problem though is when that starts happening intentionally, and where social media is mined for signs of potential dissent and then action is taken against those people.

Many people in Russia are using US internet services specifically so their personal information is kept outside the country.
Sadly it's already happened, years ago. Even before I was born. My high school Latin teacher was an anti-war college student in the 60's around the time I was born. She told us how her very peaceful campus group was harassed and under constant FBI surveillance. I wish I could recall her exact words and account for you.

I lived briefly in a very liberal town that was kind of a throwback to the California hippy communities of the 60's-70's. Many of the residents were strongly anti war during the Bush-Cheney era and some of them would gather in these little town meetings to just complain about the war and discuss where and how to distribute "War is Not The Answer" lawn signs and other peaceful protest stuff.

They were the most unthreatening people you could imagine. Well anyway I was quite surprised to find out that these folks were put under surveillance by law enforcement which actually sent spies in to watch these meetings and build dossiers on the most boring peaceful people on earth.

I can't find an electronic copy of the community newspaper in which I first read that article but here is one about similar surveillance programs on people who dare to protest such things as the death penalty or animal cruelty by making puppets. Oh the horror. These terrorist puppeteers must be stopped!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/25/AR2008072502530.html

We live in a police state as surely as the Chinese and Russians do. I hold no illusions about that. All you have to do is join a group that dares to complain about our government's questionable wars or how the government sides with big business in a way that hurts living things and boom...you're a person of interest. I found many many other articles detailing such programs of domestic surveillance but I'm not familiar with the reputations of the sources so I didn't link to them.

What boggles my mind is that while we have all these self important Barney Fifes keeping such a close watch on boring people who dare to have an opinion, a man who actually had a clear dangerous mental disorder who once made the effort to go out of his way to get the attention of the authorities was given his gun back and thus we had the horror at the airport we just witnessed. I see no evidence that our police state exists to do more than keep itself supplied with money and power. Not if our death toll from mass shooting events is anything to judge by. I'll try and be generous and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've shut down many terrorist endeavors I'm not aware of.
 
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Janichsan

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2006
3,034
11,016
…“Thanks,” Obama.
You might have been facetious, but just to point out: that NSA practice predates Obama's presidency by a couple of years. So, it's more like "Thanks, Bush". (Not that Obama bothered to do anything to stop the NSA when he had the power…)
 

Jess13

Suspended
Nov 3, 2013
461
2,434
You might have been facetious, but just to point out: that NSA practice predates Obama's presidency by a couple of years. So, it's more like "Thanks, Bush". (Not that Obama bothered to do anything to stop the NSA when he had the power…)
Yes, I was being facetious, hence the air quotes. Correct, illegal domestic spying programs started with Bush; Obama continued and expanded them. The LinkedIn related crime(s) has taken place during Obama’s regime:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...hq-hacked-belgian-telecoms-firm-a-923406.html

The presentation is undated, but another document indicates that access has been possible since 2010. The document shows that the Belgacom subsidiary Bics, a joint venture between Swisscom and South Africa's MTN, was on the radar of the British spies.​
 

c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
3,266
Media isn't free? No, it's definitely free, even if there are biases. You're pointing fingers at Democrats, but you're ignoring Fox News. And there's also small media that'll have all kinds of different viewpoints.

The actual government elections are supposedly free. The Democratic party is a private entity, and they can legally endorse whichever candidate they want, even if they do it in a dishonest way that pisses off Americans enough to not support H. Clinton.

Nope, media isn't free. Just look at current situation in Syria. As I see it, all western media, from EU to US are writing one thing, while something completely different is happening. Try to dig a little deeper then MSM media. Enjoy the ride. Or cry. Whatever suits you.

And as far as your US elections go, I do agree, Democratic party can indeed choose who they want. But that's not all they did. They held public elections, and then rigged those. And I have never been to US, so for me, it was (almost) the same who wins. But as far as I could see it, 99% of the media were completely biased towards Hillary. Strange. Now is that some weird accident, or the true representation of 'free media' ?

Once we had free media. For a long, long time now, our free media is free to write anything, but only as long as it serves a purpose for their endorsers. EOD from me, I don't like to discuss politics on tech sites. See you maybe on some other site :D
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
8,858
11,379
Sadly it's already happened, years ago. Even before I was born. My high school Latin teacher was an anti-war college student in the 60's around the time I was born. She told us how her very peaceful campus group was harassed and under constant FBI surveillance. I wish I could recall her exact words and account for you.

I lived briefly in a very liberal town that was kind of a throwback to the California hippy communities of the 60's-70's. Many of the residents were strongly anti war during the Bush-Cheney era and some of them would gather in these little town meetings to just complain about the war and discuss where and how to distribute "War is Not The Answer" lawn signs and other peaceful protest stuff.

They were the most unthreatening people you could imagine. Well anyway I was quite surprised to find out that these folks were put under surveillance by law enforcement which actually sent spies in to watch these meetings and build dossiers on the most boring peaceful people on earth.

I can't find an electronic copy of the community newspaper in which I first read that article but here is one about similar surveillance programs on people who dare to protest such things as the death penalty or animal cruelty by making puppets. Oh the horror. These terrorist puppeteers must be stopped!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/25/AR2008072502530.html

We live in a police state as surely as the Chinese and Russians do. I hold no illusions about that. All you have to do is join a group that dares to complain about our government's questionable wars or how the government sides with big business in a way that hurts living things and boom...you're a person of interest. I found many many other articles detailing such programs of domestic surveillance but I'm not familiar with the reputations of the sources so I didn't link to them.

What boggles my mind is that while we have all these self important Barney Fifes keeping such a close watch on boring people who dare to have an opinion, a man who actually had a clear dangerous mental disorder who once made the effort to go out of his way to get the attention of the authorities was given his gun back and thus we had the horror at the airport we just witnessed. I see no evidence that our police state exists to do more than keep itself supplied with money and power. Not if our death toll from mass shooting events is anything to judge by. I'll try and be generous and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've shut down many terrorist endeavors I'm not aware of.
While I have the same concerns you do, I think you're drawing a false equivalence by saying "We live in a police state as surely as the Chinese and Russians do."

In Russia and China, political dissidents are rooted out through social media, hunted down IRL and imprisoned, shot dead spectacularly in the streets, or simply die under mysterious circumstances-- sometimes across national borders. If they can't be found directly, their families are used as leverage.

We aren't that.


The ACLU was handed the documents. The WaPo published the article. State Senator Raskin wasn't disappeared for sedition.

As far as I can tell, most of the surveillance activity was still security focused. I don't like it, I think it's misguided in a lot of cases, and I think it's easy to find specific instances where over-zealotry reached absurd levels. At the same time, I like the fact that the FBI monitors the mafia, and we know there have been cases where domestic political terrorism has taken a lot of lives (McVeigh, Kaszynski, Breivik, the IRA, KKK and SLA, etc...). Lately the violence seems to come from the right, but it wasn't long ago that it came from the left.


I expect the government to try and prevent domestic political violence and to do it in a way that doesn't distort domestic political action. That's a really hard line to walk, and what is warranted and what isn't will be colored by our personal political convictions. One side may think it's obvious that people protesting the death penalty wouldn't hurt innocent people, while the other side may think the same about people protesting for "the right to life". It's hard to know when the right combination of passions and mental instabilities are going to find each other and it always looks like incompetence when the good people are hectored and the bad people slip through unseen.

Ironically, I prefer the surveillance be under cover so long as it remains focused on security only. There's a big difference between a mole sitting on the sofa writing reports that "No intelligence has been gathered at this point that there are any illegal or disruptive actions planned", and what you see in places like Russia where police and security services in uniform stand in the open with cameras and video recorders capturing individual participants. Which do you think will have a more chilling effect on political action?


I had the kinds of incidents you're describing in mind when I said that I do worry about what we could become if the apparatus is placed in the wrong hands. Many western democracies have built what I often call a "turn-key police state".

J. Edgar Hoover crossed the line without a doubt.

I'd say that the Bush administration walked right up to the line for a few years, but I don't think they crossed it domestically.

I do think innocent people have been swept up in security drag nets, but I think it is largely the result of ignorance and the inevitable result of whatever you call the law enforcement version of the fog of war, rather than an attempt to use the powers of the state to crush political opposition.

I also think the incoming administration has pretty clear authoritarian tendencies and I think there's cause for concern when handing them the levers of power, but a lot of individual people and institutions would need to be compromised before the US as a nation passed fully into the darkness.


Vigilance is important in ensuring that the state doesn't abuse the authority we've given it, and publicizing the missteps is an important part of that.

My concern though is that implying we are, today, the same as Russia and blurring the distinction between surveillance as a means to prevent political violence and surveillance as a means of perpetrating political violence is unhelpful rhetoric.

If I were Russian or Chinese, I'd be much happier if my political views were held in a database in San Francisco, London or Amsterdam than in Novosibirsk or Shanghai. Coming from a western democracy, and frequently traveling internationally, I feel that way in fact.
 
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Phil in ocala

Suspended
Jul 14, 2016
728
328
The check must not have cleared for the LinkedIn Putin bribe. Maybe he can get those hackers to release everyone's LinkedIn passwords...
++++++++++++++++++
Soon Herr Trump and Putin will sign a non-agression pact and Linkedin can comeback
[doublepost=1483968203][/doublepost]
While I have the same concerns you do, I think you're drawing a false equivalence by saying "We live in a police state as surely as the Chinese and Russians do."

In Russia and China, political dissidents are rooted out through social media, hunted down IRL and imprisoned, shot dead spectacularly in the streets, or simply die under mysterious circumstances-- sometimes across national borders. If they can't be found directly, their families are used as leverage.

We aren't that.


The ACLU was handed the documents. The WaPo published the article. State Senator Raskin wasn't disappeared for sedition.

As far as I can tell, most of the surveillance activity was still security focused. I don't like it, I think it's misguided in a lot of cases, and I think it's easy to find specific instances where over-zealotry reached absurd levels. At the same time, I like the fact that the FBI monitors the mafia, and we know there have been cases where domestic political terrorism has taken a lot of lives (McVeigh, Kaszynski, Breivik, the IRA, KKK and SLA, etc...). Lately the violence seems to come from the right, but it wasn't long ago that it came from the left.
V E R Y W E L L S A I D...

I expect the government to try and prevent domestic political violence and to do it in a way that doesn't distort domestic political action. That's a really hard line to walk, and what is warranted and what isn't will be colored by our personal political convictions. One side may think it's obvious that people protesting the death penalty wouldn't hurt innocent people, while the other side may think the same about people protesting for "the right to life". It's hard to know when the right combination of passions and mental instabilities are going to find each other and it always looks like incompetence when the good people are hectored and the bad people slip through unseen.

Ironically, I prefer the surveillance be under cover so long as it remains focused on security only. There's a big difference between a mole sitting on the sofa writing reports that "No intelligence has been gathered at this point that there are any illegal or disruptive actions planned", and what you see in places like Russia where police and security services in uniform stand in the open with cameras and video recorders capturing individual participants. Which do you think will have a more chilling effect on political action?


I had the kinds of incidents you're describing in mind when I said that I do worry about what we could become if the apparatus is placed in the wrong hands. Many western democracies have built what I often call a "turn-key police state".

J. Edgar Hoover crossed the line without a doubt.

I'd say that the Bush administration walked right up to the line for a few years, but I don't think they crossed it domestically.

I do think innocent people have been swept up in security drag nets, but I think it is largely the result of ignorance and the inevitable result of whatever you call the law enforcement version of the fog of war, rather than an attempt to use the powers of the state to crush political opposition.

I also think the incoming administration has pretty clear authoritarian tendencies and I think there's cause for concern when handing them the levers of power, but a lot of individual people and institutions would need to be compromised before the US as a nation passed fully into the darkness.


Vigilance is important in ensuring that the state doesn't abuse the authority we've given it, and publicizing the missteps is an important part of that.

My concern though is that implying we are, today, the same as Russia and blurring the distinction between surveillance as a means to prevent political violence and surveillance as a means of perpetrating political violence is unhelpful rhetoric.

If I were Russian or Chinese, I'd be much happier if my political views were held in a database in San Francisco, London or Amsterdam than in Novosibirsk or Shanghai. Coming from a western democracy, and frequently traveling internationally, I feel that way in fact.
 

foobarbaz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2007
873
1,953
Nope, media isn't free. Just look at current situation in Syria. As I see it, all western media, from EU to US are writing one thing, while something completely different is happening.

That's not what "free press" means.

It doesn't mean that everybody (or anybody) must be reporting "the truth". It means that the government doesn't stop people from reporting whatever they think the truth is.

Government interference causes everybody to report the same thing, but everybody reporting the same thing isn't proof of government interference. Just like rain causes a wet street, but a wet street isn't proof of rain.

(Here's just one possible alternative rationale: People don't want to be associated with a country that does "bad things", so they close their eyes and argue that it's the right thing.)

If you're looking for evidence of an unfree press, you'll need to dig deeper that "this doesn't look like the truth".
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
While I have the same concerns you do, I think you're drawing a false equivalence by saying "We live in a police state as surely as the Chinese and Russians do."

In Russia and China, political dissidents are rooted out through social media, hunted down IRL and imprisoned, shot dead spectacularly in the streets, or simply die under mysterious circumstances-- sometimes across national borders. If they can't be found directly, their families are used as leverage.

We aren't that.


The ACLU was handed the documents. The WaPo published the article. State Senator Raskin wasn't disappeared for sedition.

As far as I can tell, most of the surveillance activity was still security focused. I don't like it, I think it's misguided in a lot of cases, and I think it's easy to find specific instances where over-zealotry reached absurd levels. At the same time, I like the fact that the FBI monitors the mafia, and we know there have been cases where domestic political terrorism has taken a lot of lives (McVeigh, Kaszynski, Breivik, the IRA, KKK and SLA, etc...). Lately the violence seems to come from the right, but it wasn't long ago that it came from the left.


I expect the government to try and prevent domestic political violence and to do it in a way that doesn't distort domestic political action. That's a really hard line to walk, and what is warranted and what isn't will be colored by our personal political convictions. One side may think it's obvious that people protesting the death penalty wouldn't hurt innocent people, while the other side may think the same about people protesting for "the right to life". It's hard to know when the right combination of passions and mental instabilities are going to find each other and it always looks like incompetence when the good people are hectored and the bad people slip through unseen.

Ironically, I prefer the surveillance be under cover so long as it remains focused on security only. There's a big difference between a mole sitting on the sofa writing reports that "No intelligence has been gathered at this point that there are any illegal or disruptive actions planned", and what you see in places like Russia where police and security services in uniform stand in the open with cameras and video recorders capturing individual participants. Which do you think will have a more chilling effect on political action?


I had the kinds of incidents you're describing in mind when I said that I do worry about what we could become if the apparatus is placed in the wrong hands. Many western democracies have built what I often call a "turn-key police state".

J. Edgar Hoover crossed the line without a doubt.

I'd say that the Bush administration walked right up to the line for a few years, but I don't think they crossed it domestically.

I do think innocent people have been swept up in security drag nets, but I think it is largely the result of ignorance and the inevitable result of whatever you call the law enforcement version of the fog of war, rather than an attempt to use the powers of the state to crush political opposition.

I also think the incoming administration has pretty clear authoritarian tendencies and I think there's cause for concern when handing them the levers of power, but a lot of individual people and institutions would need to be compromised before the US as a nation passed fully into the darkness.


Vigilance is important in ensuring that the state doesn't abuse the authority we've given it, and publicizing the missteps is an important part of that.

My concern though is that implying we are, today, the same as Russia and blurring the distinction between surveillance as a means to prevent political violence and surveillance as a means of perpetrating political violence is unhelpful rhetoric.

If I were Russian or Chinese, I'd be much happier if my political views were held in a database in San Francisco, London or Amsterdam than in Novosibirsk or Shanghai. Coming from a western democracy, and frequently traveling internationally, I feel that way in fact.
Please believe I read and thoroughly understand the points and distinctions you are making. I've had insufficient sleep and insufficient coffee so I don't know if my post would make that apparent as I find myself far from articulate this morning.

Yes you are correct, we are still more or less free to hold whatever political views we want, especially compared to our Russian and Chinese peers. That's not what the government cares about too much as long as we don't vocally embrace views tied to known terrorist activism. So I agree the government does engage in surveillance to prevent political violence.

Where I diverge from your views as to their other purposes for engaging in surveillance does not bear further discussion, not because I dislike conversing with you, or lack things to say, but because I like my life very boring and normal, plus this is not the forum for it. It's all so tinfoil hattish. o_O

I think I can safely divulge, because I think I've done so before on this forum and definitely on FB, that I had one unsettling encounter with a government agent on a matter entirely unrelated to me (it was about a neighbor) that let me know the spooks don't really need to track us on Google or our social media accounts. If they want info, they can get it quite well using methods and means available before smart phones and social media were such a part of our lives...if they really want to.

Now what I found interesting was apparently he did not limit his "inquiry" to just the one neighbor in question, because he was willing and able to brag to me about knowing all of my neighbors' business...the whole danged street's worth...goodness that was boring and tedious as our cul de sac was not even remotely like Knot's Landing (campy 80's soap opera about an upper middle class cul de sac of that name). Every single family on that cul de sac except for our heathen family even went to church every Sunday or Synagogue on Saturdays. How these agents don't go insane, I'll never know. There is such a thing as too much info, after all. What he was not able to find out was how disappointed I was that he didn't look a thing like David Duchovny and wasn't looking for aliens in my yard. ;)

I just find Linked-In extremely annoying not because of what it would tell the government, but because it links me into an intrusive social media system I don't want or need. And you never know what weird random employees will have access to this stuff for their own personal mischief.

I would feel governmental constraints on my frankness no matter which of the superpower governments I were to live under. But yeah, I do think Uncle Sam's underwear is considerably less tight than that of his rivals.
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
8,858
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Please believe I read and thoroughly understand the points and distinctions you are making. I've had insufficient sleep and insufficient coffee so I don't know if my post would make that apparent as I find myself far from articulate this morning.

Yes you are correct, we are still more or less free to hold whatever political views we want, especially compared to our Russian and Chinese peers. That's not what the government cares about too much as long as we don't vocally embrace views tied to known terrorist activism. So I agree the government does engage in surveillance to prevent political violence.

Where I diverge from your views as to their other purposes for engaging in surveillance does not bear further discussion, not because I dislike conversing with you, or lack things to say, but because I like my life very boring and normal, plus this is not the forum for it. It's all so tinfoil hattish. o_O

I think I can safely divulge, because I think I've done so before on this forum and definitely on FB, that I had one unsettling encounter with a government agent on a matter entirely unrelated to me (it was about a neighbor) that let me know the spooks don't really need to track us on Google or our social media accounts. If they want info, they can get it quite well using methods and means available before smart phones and social media were such a part of our lives...if they really want to.

Now what I found interesting was apparently he did not limit his "inquiry" to just the one neighbor in question, because he was willing and able to brag to me about knowing all of my neighbors' business...the whole danged street's worth...goodness that was boring and tedious as our cul de sac was not even remotely like Knot's Landing (campy 80's soap opera about an upper middle class cul de sac of that name). Every single family on that cul de sac except for our heathen family even went to church every Sunday or Synagogue on Saturdays. How these agents don't go insane, I'll never know. There is such a thing as too much info, after all. What he was not able to find out was how disappointed I was that he didn't look a thing like David Duchovny and wasn't looking for aliens in my yard. ;)

I just find Linked-In extremely annoying not because of what it would tell the government, but because it links me into an intrusive social media system I don't want or need. And you never know what weird random employees will have access to this stuff for their own personal mischief.

I would feel governmental constraints on my frankness no matter which of the superpower governments I were to live under. But yeah, I do think Uncle Sam's underwear is considerably less tight than that of his rivals.
Certainly not my only takeaway from your post, but one I thought you might enjoy (ignore the Springer poster frame, I can't figure out how to change that):

 
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5105973

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Certainly not my only takeaway from your post, but one I thought you might enjoy (ignore the Springer poster frame, I can't figure out how to change that):

Laughing too hard! I actually don't crush on David Duchovny, but if you could have seen the insufferable creepy berk I had to deal with (he actually forced his way into my home while shoving his credentials in my face) it is not hard to wonder I would be hoping for Fox Mulder instead and a few little aliens and even a shapeshifter or two.
 
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0098386

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Jan 18, 2005
21,574
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Once? You're joking, right? A 'mistake'? Over 500 000 killed from 2003 till 2011 (just in Iraq!), and you call it a 'mistake'?

So please, what have you lined up to compare to the 'mistake' I've mentioned above? :D
Well yes, a mistake. A mistake can cover any scale of things but is caused by a single event. I assume you're a native English speaker and know the meaning of the word?
[doublepost=1483990877][/doublepost]
It was a mistake to underestimate the gullibility and blissful ignorance of the average Trump voter.
I like to watch them try and explain it. These, after all, are the group that believed in Pizzagate.
 

c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
3,266
Well yes, a mistake. A mistake can cover any scale of things but is caused by a single event. I assume you're a native English speaker and know the meaning of the word?

Still, u promised me a comparison of mistakes. Mention just one that is on the scale of that 'mistake'. And no, English is not my native language, I don't even live in the country where people natively speak/write English, but I do believe that I understand meaning of the word.

And deliberate 'mistake' is not a mistake. For a real mistake that would cause mass immigrations, more then 1 million killed, etc., someone would end up on court and in jail. And the mistake would be rectified, at least to some extent. But then again, another 'mistake' happened in Lybia, then in Syria, etc.

So, I really don't believe in those major 'mistakes' that you mention. As I really don't believe in free media. At least not anymore. I have all the proof one really needs, others have 'mistakes' ;)

P.S.
Not to be disrespectful, but I've already promised that this is the EOD from me. Nothing personal, I love the subject, and we are having a simple (civilised) conversation here, but I hate politics on IT forums/portals, since I try to avoid politics as much as I can. So I will call EOD from my part for the last time.

Best regards to you never the less :)
 
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