sabotaging school computers for folding

Discussion in 'Distributed Computing' started by howard, Apr 26, 2004.

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  1. howard macrumors 68020

    howard

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    #1
    what are your thoughts on sabotaging school computers for folding...

    i could potential get many computers folding however i'm not certain i should. what is everyones moral thoughts on this?

    if i did, or tried it on a few, is it possible to be traced back to me? (we don't have personal logs or anything, we can just go on the computers at school, everything is under "student")

    also, what would the easiest way to do this be, with having it resume folding on restarts... does mc68k's regular scripts do this, or do you need to use the automated script to enable this? i forgot what the setup said...

    anyway, what are your thoughts?
     
  2. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #2
    when i was in school, i ran a lab and had 20-50 old G3s doing SETI all the time because the machines were in use probably an average of 20% of any given day...the rest of the time they were on, but the screens were on standby...we had chronic won't-wake-from-sleep problems for a couple months, so we turned off sleeping on all these computers...I figured it wouldn't cost the university anything, and I ran the lab, so why not?

    My boss never even asked me about it.

    Seems to me that a console-based F@H client could sit on unlimited computers and nobody could trace it back to you directly...at least if you have permission to install things on these computers...just do Team 3446 in the setup and make up a user name that you can track but that isn't your normal user name, and who'll ever know the difference?

    or just use the default anonymous...it will still help the team.

    and to answer your question, mc68K's script will let you set the program to run at startup, yes. unless the machines are mirror-door dual 1.0's or something, nobody will ever even know that they are folding...except maybe a network administrator...

    stupid mirror-door G4s and their stupid jet turbines....
     
  3. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #3
    You really need to get the permission of whoever the admin is for those machines. If you explain the project's purpose, most people won't mind helping out - especially if you let them know it shouldn't effect system responsiveness.

    See "Can I run Folding@Home on a machine I don't own?"
     
  4. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #4
    first of all, you wouldn't being"sabotaging" anything.
    F@H uses idle cpu time so it won't interfere with any work done.

    as posted above, it's not trackable unless you use something too descriptive as username.
    mc68k's scripts would do that fine, or you can use InCrease (just make sure ou put team 3446 in place of their default ;) ).

    that said, you should probably ask permission (especially if you are on good terms with the admin :D )
     
  5. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    #5
    Definitely get permission. I don't know about the laws in the US but it's using something that isn't yours for an unauthorised purpose so it could be construed as a form of theft.
     
  6. baby duck monge macrumors 68000

    baby duck monge

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    #6
    not to mention that if they did figure out who did it... NO COMPUTER FOR YOU!! :eek:
     
  7. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #7
    oh, it couldn't be considered "theft" if he's a university student...

    students at most schools pay "tech access fees" that help pay to keep those labs open in the first place...

    it would be wise to get permission from the lab admin, but if you don't care to do that, just strictly from a "could i get in trouble" standpoint, i'd have to say no.

    some of you guys seem to think the RIAA or someone is going to come and shut down mac rumors because people are having a conversation.

    Have you ever driven *gasp* over the speed limit in your car?
     
  8. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #8
    Just because you paid a tech access fee it doesn't mean it gives you the right to do whatever you want to the machine - in almost all cases, installing software is not allowed. Trust me; I'm a university lab admin. And just because your boss was clueless/didn't care, doesn't mean that's the case elsewhere.

    As for getting in trouble, if the lab techs know anything about Folding, they'll be able to get your username/team number from the config file and track you down. It's more than wise to get permission - it's ethical.
     
  9. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #9
    I've seen people booted from universities/colleges and corporations for doing things with computers they didn't own. It's nice that you could do what you wanted, but not everyone is in that situation.

    Does your recommendation guarantee this person an education?
     
  10. howard thread starter macrumors 68020

    howard

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    #10
    well i don't think i'm going to do it

    looks it would be to much of a big deal
     
  11. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #11
    It's still worth a shot asking the lab admin - at the very least they'll appreciate being asked. ;)
     
  12. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #12
    just approach whomever is in charge and ask them.
    I see little reason for them to say no, but if they do, no big deal, end of story.

    Just go prepared to explain what is F@H, why it is a good thing and ESPECIALLY, how it won't affect the computer performance.
    good luck and keep us posted.
     
  13. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #13
    On a side note, I run F@H on my fathers G3 400, and he doesn't know; I use an app called Dockless to hide the terminal window, and he's non the wiser.

    Many of our schools comps have Grokker or Kazaa installed on them, I don't think the admins would mind one more hidden app. ;) So if I get a chance to instally F@H, I'll give you all a ring.

     
  14. chv400 macrumors 6502

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    #14
    i already asked and i got yes for an answer at my school except the comps can't run folding@home yet since my school is still on OS 9 but when the switch is made i'll beable to put folding@home on about 650 computers. Mostly G3 imacs but there are about 100-200 emacs in the school. We need to switch soon cause the new comps from apple don't support 9
     
  15. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #15
    [emphasis mine]

    :eek: :D :eek:
    man, you gonna be da king!!!!
    :eek: :cool: :eek:
     
  16. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #16
    I'm trying to stop being to redundent in this threads so above are the reasons and answers to your questions in perfect form.


    Ethical? No
    Doable? Sure

    And again, its not sabotage, its not going to interfere with anything, Anything at all -- all idle processor time.

    Six Hundred and Fifty? Holy-- Sweet Lord!
    Thats pretty damn sweet.


    howard -- Its pretty simple, explain to them that its easy and it has no negetive conquences.

    Really, its a win-win. The school can say they are pro-fighting diease, and you win for helping out.

    --MrMacMan
     
  17. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    #17
    if the admin doesn't know it is on his machines, then it deserves to be on there. if he knows, he can take it off or prevent it. putting it on someone else's machine is 100% effective. asking is prob more like <50% effective

    i have taken over many labs and feel good about it. depends on your personal ethics. it is not malicious intent, IMO
     
  18. Mustang Mac macrumors regular

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    Apr 1, 2003
    #18
    Ah yes. I think I remember reading that in the Stanford Pande Group FAQ and license agreement. No harm, no foul right?! Let me see if I can dig up what the Pande Group suggests. Here it is.

    Yes sir. It says exactly what mc68k says. I'll be darned! OK. Just wanted to be sure that such a big folding contributor is being an ambassador and role model for his team. Thanks! Fold on!
     
  19. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    #19
    i guess my ethics differ from urs. maybe i shouldn't steal music, movies, or rip DRM protection either
     
  20. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #20
    Any IT person needs to know whats own their machines. You know why they need to know this? Because Rower or mc68k are IT's.


    Anyway you should probably ask them beacuse they are probably going to say yes anyway.
     
  21. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

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    #21
    I'm a technology director at a school district.
    They would never find your body.

    Actually, I've run SETI that way and there is no harm because of it. If your director was a progressive with common sense... wouldn't hurt to ask.
     
  22. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #22
    like Team MacOSX hasn't benefitted from a bunch of unaware college system admins...

    i think mc68k is right...if they can't tell that they are running an entire lab of computers (especially macs and their jet fans) at 100% processor usage, then they don't need to be a system admin.

    and it doesn't hurt anything, anyway.

    and scaring that dude into thinking he could be "caught" and somehow "kicked out of school" for logging in on a public terminal anonymously and running a script is just stupid.

    if someone really really really knows what they were doing, they could trace back to the macrumors team, and then possibly trace back to this forum, and then subpoena for the owner of the offending username of the person who asked about installing descretely, and maybe, possibly, they could figure out who it was. But he could just...deny it.

    really, though, nobody would know/care if he did this.
     
  23. Mustang Mac macrumors regular

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    Apr 1, 2003
    #23
    Not to my knowledge. And NO team members have been brazen enough to actually question 'how' or 'should I' do it. We are a tight knit group and like it that way. Frankly, if someone did ask, then it would be a resounding 'absolutely not without permission'. I think that personally, and I am sure team consensus would be, if someone IS doing it they should stop by here and sign up post haste. It is a direct violation of the end user agreement for crying out loud. And to have a large contributor to the project be so flippant about it is ludicrous. I know all about the 'it doesn't hurt anything, or slow down performance, or pose a security risk, yada, yada, yada' arguments. But the fact remains that permission is not granted and many unknowing admins or bosses get pissed once they find out something is going on behind their backs. Then the project gets a bad name in IT circles. So the 100% without permission that mc68k espouses turns to 0% and any future 50% with permission is dropped to 0% as well. But as you say, your ethics may vary. Just try to not ruin the project and hobby for the rest of us. Thanks in advance.
     
  24. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #24
    Well, if telling the truth is stupid, then, I admit to being stupid. I've seen people removed from school for doing a lot of things with school computers that they should not have.
     
  25. mkaake macrumors 65816

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    mi
    #25

    good golly, in high school and entire paragraph was added to the school code of conduct because of my actions on a computer... so after that, stuff i did was a no-no :rolleyes: they tried to remove me from school for two weeks, but one of my teachers stood up for me, seeing as there were no rules against doing what i did (and no, nothin serious, just playin f/a 18 hornet). <edit: this means that i agree with you ;) you can do things that are harmless enough, and not even 'against the rules', but you can still get in a load of trouble for it)

    it scares me that so many people see morals as being something of a sliding scale - people who are proud that they do illegal things, and ignore the law when they see fit.
    "yeah, i'm doing something that i said i wouldn't do when i agreed to the software licence, but they don't expect to you *read* those..."

    although i imagine life would be several times easier (read:lazier) if i choose to ignore laws i didn't agree with.

    scary thing is, people seem to think that the above statement is reasonable and a fine choice.

    scary.

    matt
     
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