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Discussion in 'Current Events' started by mactastic, Nov 25, 2003.
Very strange story here.
That is a great find mactastic. Thank you for posting the link. It will be interesting to find out what the doctors learn from the medical testing.
wow that is very weird...
i'd like to see what comes of this.
hopefully nothing disasterous like the poor guy starving to death while being tested
dang, if true, pretty amazing.
wonder where he's getting the energy from...
Indian fakirs! Walk on coals, now not eating, great stuff, I love it when our scientists get all confused and stuff. Proves that we aren't God.
Man, I wish I didn't have to eat. I actually wouldn't be so close to broke right now then.
as a scientist voice... it still doesn't make much sense.
even if you managed to not create any waste products... you lose a fair amount of water just from breathing and living. (800ml's a day). Challenege him to a game of basketball, then we'll see...
anyhow...my two cents... I'm not a believer yet.
Man, I've heard of mind over matter. I've heard of ascetics doing amazing things. But surviving with no food or water? Impossible.
I don't see this as being possible - he has to get energy from somewhere...and there is no explanation for that...I'd love to see the final *results* of his observation...
I reserve comments on this gentleman; my instincts say, can't be, but then...
but some years ago i was in the himalayas, trekking in the snow with a group. average temperature was around 5 to 10 degrees below zero, celsius (that's somewhere in the 20s in Fahrenheit), and we met a similar sadhu / fakir, roaming around in the bare-minimum (some sort of a cloth around the middle). he told us that he never needed anything more to keep him warm, because 'god looked after him'. for all appearances he was pretty healthy, and quite chatty. we did not have anything to share with him for eating, but he had : he offered us some dry-fruits and some hand-rolled tobacco
when we got back our cozy rest-house we were especially thankful for the warm fire-place
He must be a cyborg. Get one of the scientists to try and lift him up. If he's too heavy, it's a dead giveaway.
Leave it to those craaaazy Indians!
Seriously, though, I'm skeptical. It seems very impressive and would definitely make David Blane (sp?) jealous. It would appear to be impossible, but there is much we still do not know about this world of ours.
As a strong believer in science, I'm not going to believe that a boon from a goddess could magically cause this and leave no physical manifestations to make it happen. I'm a religious person and the idea of a miracle doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility, unless it violates the principles by which the universe and life are governed.
The hole in his palate is interesting, but it seems farfetched that it would sustain him. Sheer power of the mind, though, has a strength and ability that we haven't yet begun to understand. There might be something to it, and as others have mentioned, Hindu sadhus and sanyasis have subjected themselves to incredibly harsh conditions and survived them.
I really hope that we discover something amazing from this chance encounter with a simple Hindu sanyasi. Sometimes, these simple incidents of accident (or Fate?) have the most remarkable outcomes. Assuming this is legitimate, I don't know if we've got enough fore-knowledge of the mental processes that would probably be involved in this feat.
On the other hand, I hope this isn't some orchestrated scheme by the Hindu right wing, a disgusting movement that has unfortunately developed in this religion of mine. I definitely wouldn't put a stunt like this past the proponents of "Hindutva," as the Hindu fundamentalist movement is known. I imagine a claim of the power of the self-denying Hindu sanyasi would serve as evidence of Hinduism's superiority over religions like Islam and Christianity. That superiority has to become a dialogue in comparative religion is a disturbing development that is entirely un-Hindu. But it's there and it's something with which Indian society has to contend.
I'm really, really hoping that this isn't some gimmick. What the fundamentalists don't realize is that every one of these apocryphal shows just detracts from the Hindu faith. If this isn't legit and if it turns out to be a purposeful parading of a Hindu sadhu with a false claim, then it's going to make less meaningful the immense physical and mental endurance of legitimate sanyasis, who through the focus of the mind have endured incomprehensible conditions.
Perhaps, I just want to believe that there's still a little magic and mystique left in the world...That the seemingly impossible can be discovered in a little man in a little cave deep in the heart of Gujarat.
one explanation may be that perhaps these people know of a way to slow down the heart and/or metabolism. (somehow.)
but taken literally, these people seem to violate the laws of thermodynamics...
don't want to start some sort of religious discussion, but "god is looking out for them" or "some things simply can't be explained by science" aren't really acceptable to me... they sound more like giving up on coming up with reasonable (re: scientific) explanations...
Well, this is just the way that these people can rationalize their own abilities. In a way, God is giving them something. If they are slowing down their heart/metabolism, it is usually done through some sort of meditative practice, and in the case of these sanyasis, that involves fixation upon the image and concept of the Divine.
As far as violating the laws of thermodynamics...I always hear people throwing around "Well according to the first law of thermodynamics..." or "This violates the second law of thermodynamics..." Most of the time, I really don't think that they're right. jxyama, what you're saying makes a lot more sense than most, but some people try to use the laws of thermodynamics to prove (or disprove, it really doesn't matter) the existence of God. The far-fetched applications of these laws seem unending.
In this case, though, while your conjecture might have some merit to it, I don't necessarily agree. Metabolism and heart function are very complicated tasks. As with all tasks, there is a measure of inefficiency and imperfection with the average human's conducting of these tasks. We note in athletes more efficient and streamlined bodily function, as induced by physical training.
But aside from improving the physical conditions in which these operations must occur, there are probably mental means to do the same (or more). The brain definitely plays an important role in ensuring the proper conducting of them. Isn't it possible to augment the efficiency of complex tasks by a better utilization of one's brain's potential? Perhaps concerted meditation over a long period influences the brain to find better or more efficient signals by which to regulate bodily functions. I'm speaking in generalities because I'm not yet familiar with the specifics. I'm a neurobio major, but I don't take my neuro courses until next year. Then, maybe, I'll be able to give a more specific discourse on neural function. But even without expertise and with a general knowledge of biological function, cell function, and organic chemistry, it seems perfectly rational that there are ways to improve the performance of bodily functions...Certainly, it wouldn't become such a fundamental problem of science as to question a law of thermodynamics.
well, if he doesn't eat or drink, he has no input of energy. laws of thermodynamics prohibit perfectly energy efficient systems, so that's what i meant by "taken literally, he'd violate the laws of thermodynamics."
what you suggest about mental/neural capabilities and physical processes being connected is very interesting. i'm a physicist so i don't know much about them, but would certainly be keen to learn more.
I believe it is possible. I'm not sure whether he is aided by spirits/godesses or whether it is a mental thing.
I know a man who is a martial artist that can heal a bee sting by massaging it, smash stone with his hands, but cannot do a pull-up(he is only 170 lbs.). It's not exactly the same thing, but it is similar.
Oh, you're absolutely right. If we're referring to this guy, then yeah, it would seem to be a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. But in responding, I for some reason was thinking about the people whom it has been said can just slow their heartbeats and metabolism in order to live much longer in meditating states. I imagine THOSE people do take in food, as opposed to this man, who says that he doesn't. Those folks probably DON'T violate basic laws of physics.
And who knows? Maybe this guy can metabolize CO2...that would be crazy.
The source of all life energy on Earth is the Sun. Maybe he can photosynthesize. I guess being trapped in a room for ten days would cause a problem then. Plus, even trees and other plants draw water and nutrients from the soil with their roots. Does he have roots?
metabolizing CO2 seems unlikely, as it has no where near the energy potential of O2.....theres a reason why fires burn in pure oxygen, and carbon dioxide puts them out.
Maybe the hole in his palatte acts like a kind of baleen, and he subsists on various bacteria and microscopic detritus in the air...somehow....this guys warrents further study, i think.
I agree with the further testing. I'm anxious to hear the results. We should send arn and some of the other scientists on the forum to perfom testing and report back.
I wish I could teach my 2 year old how to not eat or go... Potty Training sucks. I am about to get a book on house training a dog, because what we are doing isn't working.
BTW a bit more on topic here. I think this is a hoax. Even a cyborg requires a recharge. Not to forget the physical law against building a perfect machine. There must be a loss of energy to create motion.
I don't think it's the same thing. The things that this martial artist can do are scientifically explainable. I believe bee stings swell up due to a toxin on the stinger (note that a pin prick does not swell up so it's not just the breaking of the skin). Massaging the sting could easily force the toxin out of the wound or in to the blood where it would have no effect due to its incredibly small quantity.
Smashing stones is just a matter of hitting them correctly. Nothing hard or mystical about it.
Not eating or drinking is, IMO, a different can of worms entirely. And I'm not a believer yet.
Maybe he gets his energy from parallel universe that is contracting (therefore laws of thermodynamics work oposite,or don't hold at all)
Lots of speculation in this thread for a load of crap.
All i can say is, just because someone says they can do something (Realiens) doesn't mean they can. But, people should always have an open mind about things...it would be cool if true.
Maybe he's powered by Karma....