see, no nVidia

Discussion in 'Games' started by benpatient, May 4, 2004.

  1. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #1
    well, the X800 Pro and X800 XT from ATi have been announced and released to the media...

    they are the (generally) faster, and (clearly) more elegant/efficient counterpart to the nVidia 6800U that you guys were all drooling over.

    like i said...we won't be seeing the 6800U in a Mac any time soon.
     
  2. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    Unless Apple wants to work on it, we won't see it.
     
  3. switchedanhappy macrumors regular

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    #3
    I just came here too post about this... you beat me to it. I love ATI cards, and wouldn't want to switch to nvidia. just one thing though... will the x800's fit in my g5? I think it uses pci express, which is (I think) faster than pci X, which is what I have. I think that if it does, I might just get rid of my 9800 pro and stuff in an x800. (anybody know if there are current plans for a mac version of the x800? (I realize there probably are) I really hope that my G5 will take one. (dual 2 ghz)
     
  4. benpatient thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #4
    the G5 actually has an old-fashioned AGP 8X graphics card slot...not PCI-X or anything else...

    the next-gen graphics cards after the R420 (the X800 is R420 architecture) will use the new PCI Express-16 (i think that's what they're calling it...something or another like that, anyway), which is basically a wider implimentation of the PCI-X format...if that isn't right, i'll correct myself in a few minutes...but that's how i understand it.

    anyway, because ATi has gotten the X800 cards to fit in a single slot space (unlike nVidia's 6800U), it will actually be an easy replacement for your current graphics card...but honestly it would be something of a waste to upgrade your G5 with one of these. You'd get more performance benefit if you spent that 500(!) dollars on a PC to play games, and aside from games, you aren't really going to see any difference at all at the moment.

    That said, yes, you can pop out your current card and put the as-of-yet-unannounced Mac version of the X800 into your G5 and attach the aux. power cable and you'll be set. The announced PC versions of the X800 Pro and X800 XT are both AGP 8X cards...and they illustrate clearly that we will be reaching the bandwidth limit of AGP sooner than I think anyone really expected...probably this fall when R480 (or whatever they call it) gets released...

    The X800 XT's GDDR3 memory runs well over 1000mhz!!!!

    It looks like in probably 2 years or so, computer gaming will be almost totally CPU-limited in its advancement. Already they have gotten incredible performance from this card at 1600x1200 with FSAA and AF fully enabled! Some of the screenshots they are relasing of games running 50-80 fps at these settings are truly amazing.

    Can't wait for the middle-of-the-road models to start shipping (so i can get my hands on a super-cheap 9800 Pro for my Athlon...or maybe an X600 Pro or something...
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Ati's new stuff seems a lot better then the nvidea offerings, lower power usage and you dont need 2 slots. looks like ati has done it again but i wouldnt expect a retail mac version of the card for about a year if at all. ATi has never been fast with the Mac versions. sad reality when you have such a small market to sell in due to the fact Apple has only 1 machine that you can put in a videocard. very impressive cards and toms hardware has a good read and a bunch of tests.http://www.tomshardware.com
     
  6. Benjamin macrumors 6502a

    Benjamin

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    #6
    except for the fact that nVidia has posted that the 6800 has mac support on their page while ati's page has no mac support. However Ati's have generally be in the mac pro line higher up on the chain then nVidia and since the G5 announcements are probably going to be at WWDC I can see that the X800 Pro/XT will probably be out for the mac by then. As for APG.. it already has enough bandwidth we don't need to go to PCI X/E just yet.
     
  7. Dippo macrumors 65816

    Dippo

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    #7
    The ATI's will have Mac support, there is no doubt about that. I think they have been pushing hard to get this card out the door for the PC, and as such haven't put too much time into the Mac drivers yet.

    Just to fair though, the nVidia does do better with OpenGL games on the PC than the ATI. How this will translate onto the Mac is anyone's guess.

    As for PCI Express, those cards won't be out until later this year. All of the current cards being reviewed are AGP. Personally, I am not about to about to go out and buy a new system for just PCI Express support.

    Hopefully we will see these new cards (and PCI Express) in the next revisions of PowerMac.
     
  8. Bigheadache macrumors 6502

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    #8
    The G5 (1.8Ghz & up) has PCI-X slots and an AGP Pro 8x slot. PCI-X is an extension of the PCI design, you usually find high end RAID cards and I am sure the Fibre Channel card is also PCI-X. PCI Express has absolutely nothing in common with PCI or PCI-X. PCI Express is a serial technology like Hypertransport, not a parallel technology like PCI or PCI-X.

    Anyway, hopefully the Mac version of the R420 will not need the extra power cable because the G5 AGP slot is the Pro version which can supply more power. I may be wrong, but I am sure the G5 Radeon9800 Pro doesn't need the cable, but the PC versions do. The PCI Express version of the X800 (R423) is due in only a few weeks so maybe we might see it in the next G5 revision (assuming that G5 will go PCI Express).

    You are right about one thing, if people want to play games they need to get real and get a pc (or at least an xbox)
     
  9. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

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    #9
    Well, the OEM mac Radeon 9800s don't need a cable, but the retail mac versions do. I was also wondering if teh R420s could be powered by the AGP bus on the mac...

    Interesting point some of you guys brought up, which I agree... if you want to get serious about gaming, you're better off putting your money into a PC and/or an Xbox.
     
  10. crazzyeddie macrumors 68030

    crazzyeddie

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    #10
    The BTO 9800 can run off of the AGP slot in the G5's because its an AGP 8x PRO slot. The PRO means it can carry more current to the GPU. The Retail models all have power connectors because G4's don't have AGP PRO slots.
     
  11. Dippo macrumors 65816

    Dippo

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    #11

    The Tom's Hardware Review that I read, found that the Radeon X800 actually used less power than the 9800XT, so it is probably still be possible for it run off the AGP bus.

    On the other had, the Nvidia has two power connectors on the PC version and uses a lot more power (about 110 Watts).

    Of course for the cost of one of these cards, you could buy like 3 XBoxes, but then I don't see the XBox doing 1600x1200 4xFSAA & 8xAniso playing UT2004 while pumping out 60+ FPS!
     
  12. Veldek macrumors 68000

    Veldek

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    #12
    I also read Tom’s Hardware review and my conclusion was that the GeForce 6800 is the better card when it comes to OpenGL rendering. In all OpenGL test it benchmarked a lot better than the X800. As Mac games only use OpenGL I think the GeForce would be the better solution.

    It’s true though that the ATI has a much better power consumption.
     
  13. kiwi_the_iwik macrumors 65816

    kiwi_the_iwik

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    #13

    I never thought I'd hear it:

    The G5 - old fashioned?!?


    Well - if the AGP 8x isn't fast enough, then what about utilising one of the PCI-X slots that the G5 is equipped with?

    :confused:
     
  14. Veldek macrumors 68000

    Veldek

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    #14
    Because PCI-X is even slower. Perhaps you mean PCI Extreme, the successor of AGP, but the G5 is not (yet) equipped with it.
     
  15. benpatient thread starter macrumors 68000

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    Nov 4, 2003
    #15
    actually, according to that logic, there should be a Mac version of the 5700, the 5800, the 5900, and the 5950, because they all listed "mac support" on their page when they were announced...the thing is, that's theoretical support.

    it doesn't mean they are actually going to make a Mac version with an ADC and all of that mess...much less devote the time it takes them to "tweak" their drivers to actually perform well...

    Someone said that nVidia has an OpenGL advantage, and that is true, but ATi's Mac drivers are better enough to remove any advantage that nVidia gains from OpenGL performance...the nVidia Mac drivers are slow and well...i think they are fairly crap.
     
  16. switchedanhappy macrumors regular

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    #16
    I guess I'm going alittle off topic now, but why the heck did steve put pci x into their machines when he knew that the emerging standard was pci express?!?!?! now my 4,000$ rig that's only a year old isn't gonna support new video cards? maybe a logic board upgrade will be available for pm g5 rev a some day...
     
  17. Bigheadache macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I suppose you didn't think about those professionals using high end RAID controllers or HD digital video cards (like BlackMagic Decklink HD pro)
     
  18. job macrumors 68040

    job

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    #18
    I guess you were misinformed/confused.

    PCI-X was never meant to be a replacement for AGP or have anything to do with GPUs, obviously since the current G5 towers still have an AGP slot.

    PCI-X is an emerging standard, just not for the uses you are thinking about.
     
  19. Veldek macrumors 68000

    Veldek

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    #19
    Just to clear things up a little:

    PCI-X is the successor of PCI.
    PCI Extreme is the successor of AGP.

    These are two completely different ports. One (AGP, PCI Extreme) is only for graphics cards, the other (PCI-X, PCI) for anything else like soundcards, TV cards or more.
     
  20. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

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    #20
    Actually PCI-EX (PCI-Express) is for graphics and sound and every other type of card. There will be 2 types of PCI-EX slots, the 16xspeed (which are longer) for graphics cards and the 1xspeed (which are shorter) and are for everything else.

    PCI-X that Apple uses in it's current G5 Macs is just a more advanced/faster version of normal PCI slots, although it is nowhere near as fast as PCI-EX.

    There is some more info on it here: http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040301/alderwood-09.html
     
  21. Veldek macrumors 68000

    Veldek

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    #21
    Wow, I didn't know that. Now i finally understand why they chose the name PCI Express. Thanks for the link.
     
  22. benpatient thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #22
    I just wanted to comment on something someone said earlier that was...well...just plain wrong.


    AGP "PRO" slots have been around since like 1999, and virtually every modern PC and Mac with an AGP slot has an AGP Pro slot.

    The BTO 9800 Pro in the G5 doesn't need an extra molex power connection because it is clocked down, as you can see below.

    the G5's AGP port is just a plain-old, run-of-the-mill AGP 8X slot.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Pegano macrumors newbie

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    #23
    This 9800 Special Edition appearing in the above chart has yet to see the light of day, no?
     
  24. switchedanhappy macrumors regular

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    #24
    ok then, I guess i was wrong, but still, why didn't they think ahead and put in pci express instead of agp? I'm guessing price/availability.(spelling?)
     
  25. Bigheadache macrumors 6502

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    #25
    What would they plug into it???
    There were no PCI Express graphics cards at the time, only AGP ones.
     

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