Small Form Factor(SFF) - return the Cube?

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by cyberddot, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. cyberddot macrumors 6502

    cyberddot

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    #1
    As with many searching for the right multi-tool to do jobs at home, provide some play-time as well as take care of distance school work, I've wandered away from the Apple/Mac rumor sites to find out what's happening on the other side of the PC tracks. I hadn't realized how much work had been done over the past several years in developing the PC - SFF systems that provide almost ALL that I (and many others) would like to see in a Mac platform! (Shuttle systems look GREAT but for the processor and OS)

    I hadn't yet seen the light in the Days Of The Cube, so didn't get to experience the adaptability inherent to the little beauties. Why did Apple nix this product? I love my v2.2 iMac, but she's starting to lag behind in some performance areas. Why is there nothing in between the new iMac and the G5 to provide a consumer an upgradable choice? Any thoughts or recent rumors on the likelihood of Apple moving back in a Cube-like direction? Is there no profit in providing a sub-Pro upgradable Mac?

    dot
     
  2. vollspacken macrumors 65816

    vollspacken

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    #2
    ah, one of those "bring back da Cube..!"-threads...

    some people will immediately start flaming, but I too think that Apple should release something along those lines. they should have done this long time ago with a speedy G3...

    won't happen I suppose, since Apple does not even seem able to get their sh*t together in order to update their iMac and PowerMac lines...

    vSpacken
     
  3. Ajmbc macrumors regular

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    #3
    I guess that the reason that there is not another cube is that Apple hasn't gotten around to it.

    They halted the cube because of various problems (such as the power button not working) and because they weren't selling that well.

    I would love to see another cube.

    -ajmbc
     
  4. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #4
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Number one reason is Apple is ran by a Bunch of arrogant egomaniacs that are out of touch with the consumer and as such the sales have declined,declined, and declined even after opening new stores. Get rid of Jobs and find someone from the PC world that knows whats going on and who wants to sell to consumers not just a bunch of Pro's. Consumers outnumber pros 100 to one but who does Steve go after? and hence 1 % marketshare. maybe thats the target.
     
  6. ~Shard~ macrumors P6

    ~Shard~

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    #6
    I've proposed this wacky idea before, but thought I'd bring it up here again. What if the G5 iMac is indeed the machine everyone is hoping, with upgraded hardware, some upgradability, etc. - somewhat along the lines of the current 1.6 GHz G5? With PowerMac updates soon(?), possibly bumping up the line to 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 (or whatever, give or take), this would possibly isolate and differentiate the product lines enough between the iMac and the PowerMac.

    But now, here's the "wild" part - what if, because of all of this re-engineering on the iMac to make it a G5, upgrading the hardware, redesigning the mobo from scratch, including more expensive parts in general (relative to what the iMac has now at least), the iMac no longer remains at its current price point. This would make sense I think, as Apple can't magically offer a brand new system for the same price as a "relatively" outdated G4 system - this is simple logic as I see it. So now, as a result, we see the eMac becoming the sole low-end machine in the Apple product line, the PowerMac remaining as the high-end machine, but now the iMac becomes a more expensive, yet mid-level machine, possibly taking on the role of a digital hub - but as a result, starting at $2500, (just to throw a number out there)?

    Once again, I'm not saying this is liekly by any means, just some crazy speculation on my part! :cool:
     
  7. ~Shard~ macrumors P6

    ~Shard~

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    #7
    Oh, and as an addition to my previous post, I'll agree that there is a significant gap right now between the iMacs and the PowerMacs, but what can you do other than be patient and wait for updates? Well, the other option would be to buy a PC I suppose... The fact is that Apple will release the G5 iMacs, the G5 PowerBooks, and the PowerMac updates, when they're ready to be released - and not a day sooner. If this is unacceptable for people, they can buy a PC, which I have no problems with if that's your thing.

    I'd love to see updates right away too, as they seem long overdue, but for now I'll be happy with my 17" 1.25 GHz G4 iMac - the longer the G5 iMacs take to come out, the longer my machine will still be the top of the iMac line! ;) But seriously, even when the new iMacs come out, I won't be too envious of them. Although having a G5 would be nice, my current iMac will do everything I need it to, and more, for the next 2-3 years - which is when I'll be picking myself up a nice new G6! :cool: (Oh, and I realize not everyone is in the same boat as me, which is fair enough)
     
  8. ravenvii macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    #8
    If you want a good looking SFF case that can have two optical drives, check out the Soltek Qbic series. I'm considering buying it and transplanting my current rig over to it.

    And BTX isn't the standardized SFF, it's actually just a successor to ATX, with components of the motherboard moved around to improve heat dissipation and some other improvements.
     
  9. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #9
    Rant off the port bow, Captain!

    Aye... Bring me harpoon, lad.

    Overall sales are not down significantly, but sales are down when compared to the the continuously expanding PC market. Apple's installed base is still the largest single OEM, and their sales are higher than many of the PC manufacturers when you consider them separately. If you want to be ridiculous and claim all PC sales together, with the sum of some hundreds or thousands of companies competing with Apple, then there's some serious issue. However, the issue is with your lack of scale in your thought, not the sales themselves.

    :rolleyes:

    Right... Someone from the PC world, where all but one of the OEMs are hemhorraging money, and the only one that's turning a profit does it on sheer volume and would crush Apple in their low-price market because of established supply lines and marketing hype.

    Do you say these things after thinking about them, or just blurt them out when they occur to you?

    Assume that this is the case, for a moment. I'll play nice and grant for a moment that there could be 100 consumers for every professional user (unlikely, but we'll play that game).

    For ten sales to professional users, calling the costs $50 per unit:
    1000 x $1,000 = $100,000 ; $100,000 - 50,000 = $50,000
    10 X $5,000 = $50,000 ; $50,0000 - $500 = $45,500 and less logistical issues

    Sales to professionals tend to be far more profitable, and $5,000 for a serious workstation is peanuts.
     
  10. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #10
    I find it unlikely, for reasons of economy and costs in the new architecture. The G5 is still a massively new system, and the parts just aren't cheap enough to go much below the pro line with them. Everyone who complains about there not being a sub-Pro, upgradeable system is ignoring the single processor low-end tower, which is approximately $1,600-1,700 when configured properly.

    As things stand, I think there will eventually be a G5 iMac or iMac replacement, but I doubt it will be nearly cheap enough to shut people like DHM up, and I doubt that it would be expandable. Shuttle cases are interesting, but there's very little incentive in them for a company like Apple.
     
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #11

    I've got to echo thewendigo's comments. Currently (and for the past year if not more) Apple and Dell have been the only companies in their field to turn a profit. So which captin of a sinking ship from the PC world do want to bring over? Dell is making money because of the sheer volume they deal with and their excellent inventory control. All the other big PC makers are in serious sh*t because they tried to out-Dell Dell and they lost, big time. Just look at Gateway. Apple needs to play to its strengths not try to compete in areas where it is obviously weaker. You don't fight fire w/fire when you have a Zippo and the other guy has a flame thrower.


    Lethal
     
  12. vollspacken macrumors 65816

    vollspacken

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    #12
     
  13. bennetsaysargh macrumors 68020

    bennetsaysargh

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    #13
    i want a cube so bad,. maybe cut the head off of the iMac, because the way i see it is the iMac as pro-sumer. eMac and iBook are consumer, and he powers are obviously pro. the imac is that in-between product that the cube would be.
     
  14. aswitcher macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #14
    Yeah, I am not so keen for them to lose a cheap low end lcd machine.

    I would argue that they could do a cube as the base end of the powermac line (you dont need all that space in a single processor machine) to beef up the middle rather than raise the cost of the lcd entry models. Sure I think the imac could do with a serious face lift and perhaps a few more options, but not at the cost of the current price points.

    I think a G5 PowerMac "mini" (ie more cubish) would be a good seller...
     
  15. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #15
    Alienware is not hurting how about that boss and how the heck can any of you mac lovers sit there and tell me 1% of the market is just fine. What iam saying is after Imac crt saved their corporate behinds they forgot about all those consumers. Imac Crt was a tick behind powermac, emac/Imac lcd are a joke and not even close. are you guys & girls going to stand up when it hits near 0%???? Apple needed a new Imac last year. powermac sales though declined are matching Imac & Emac together and thats not good when you have billions of consumers. we have billions of consumers and apple is missing the mark by almost 100% and thats good?
    Thatwendigo ill tell you again i dont want a cheap bunch of junk Imac but i do demand(with my dollars) a Imac G5 with good video(CARD) and will pay up to $2000 if it comes with a 17" but a G4 dont cut it.
    Marketshare will kill Apple unless it gets turned around. Not one product has stopped this migration of new computer buyers. The money in the bank is from all those millions of Imac crt buyers.
     
  16. aswitcher macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #16
    I agree, Apple did need a new iMac last year and because they haven't addressed this they are suffering from piss poor sales in this area from what we have seen of the last six quaters figures.

    Sooner it comes out the better.

    But, I don't think its going to look the same as the current model. To accomodate a G5, more ram etc its going to have a new form factor, and given its Apple this is again likely to be something new with market appeal.

    I don't like the delays that a new form factor iMac are having but if completly retooling (not just chucking some new bits in a standard box) are taking time, plus marketing campaign preparations etc etc to capitalize of the iPod/mini iPod success, then it could well be worth the wait...

    I suspect Steve's ego has also been in a factor since I think he will want to reveal it in person at WWDC...
     
  17. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #17
    could be and i guess thats why i havent ordered alienware(yet) but man am i close. so they introduce a new machine at wwdc and then ship it in sept? they have got to get their corporate butt together when it comes to new products and intro's. being a long time mac user its hard to jump ship and the wife tells me everyday to order that Aurora. most consumers wouldnt put up with Apples crappy advancement they would just go out and shop and take home the PC.
     
  18. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #18
    Alienware is a niche company that sells machines that are far more expensive than the components themselves are. In fact, as far as margins go, they're a lot like Apple, except they target the gullible people who are impressed by shiny plastic even more than Apple does.

    Also, if the gaming market goes bust in the near future, as some analysts are predicting, that kills Alienware, but not Apple.

    I never said it's ideal, just that it's the situation as it stands, and not the horrible emergency that you seem to think it is. Like others have pointed out, BMW has less than 2% of the car market, but you don't see people saying that they're going out of business.

    The iMac CRT was a big seller, but hardly the savior of Apple. Oh, and it's more than a little hypocritical of you to be calling for the ouster of Steve Jobs, since he was a big part of the whole iMac phenomenon... So the guy saved Apple while he was crashing it, did he? :rolleyes:

    Billions of consumers? Billions? Hardly.

    I might be willing to accept that there are 500 million people in the world who could afford a truly modern computer. You seem to be expressing the same lack of basic economics that you show off in other places, since roughly two to three fifths of the wealth of the world is in America, while only about 300 million people live here. According to the US Census Beureau, the United States population is 292,943,042, out of a total world population of 6,359,514,472. That's only 4.6% of the world possessing some 40-60% of the wealth. Let's say that there's only a billion dollars to go around, all over the world. In other words, 95.4% of the world is splitting up about the same amount of money as our 4.6% are.

    There are not billions of consumers. There are, however, billions of subsistence and poverty line dwellers.

    Well, your demands aren't being fulfilled, and I don't see them being done to your satisfaction, short of some major revolution. I know that you don't want a cheap, junk iMac, but that's what you'll get if you try to cheapen the hardware too much. Apple makes margins that it needs to survive and turn a profit, while paying for one of the largest R&D departments in any OEM on the market. Short of a major revolution in the way that suppliers treat the mac market, something which I doubt even Apple could do much about, we're not goingt to see any major price drops.

    :rolleyes:

    Right... The money has nothing to do with the 100,000 G5 preorders, the consistent sales that have started falling off in the last two quarters as rumors grow more feverish and FUD-trolls like you yak it up. It doesn't have anything to do with the incredible success of the iPod, the continuing sales of the PowerBooks, or all the other computers Apple has sold since the CRTs were EOLed.

    Mmmhmm.

    You haven't ordered it because you'd have to learn something new to complain about. Instead of it being Apple, you'd have to learn what was making your machine crash, how to fix the hardware incompatibilites and driver issues, the virsues that you'll inevitably get (because my opinion of your knowledge of computers isn't very high at this point), and generally make a stink of the whole thing.

    You're a chronic yakker. If you don't have something to whine about, you'd have to stop making posts that said the same thing, over and over again, so that your post count would keep pumping up.

    Christ, I'd be a Demi-God by now if I did the same thing you do.

    Most consumers buy Fords and Chevys, unhealthy food that they believe is good for them, don't pay attention to how a little outlay could save them trouble later, and live off of debt spending. That doesn't mean they know what they're doing.

    As previously stated, numbers only mean that a larger amount of people accept something, not that they're right or that their way is better. There are more roaches than people, after all.
     
  19. aswitcher macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #19
    One bright side to the delays is the greater likelihood that newly announced machines will be shipping immediately. I think a revamped G5 iMac shipping immediately is pretty likely, especially if they have put a music spin on it with high quality speakers as standard etc
     
  20. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

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    #20
    Back to the cube... I really wish I could get my hands on a cube as well. I would really like to have one to hook up to my home entertainment center. ( OK so its really a 13'' tv, receiver, and two speakers but I digress.) I hope Apple does return to that form factor, even as an iMac line. I would get one, as I missed out on the other cube revolution. Even a speedy G3 that I could use for my entertainment center would be a dream come true. I don't see it happening though. I agree that R&D costs would make this tough to do. I can hope though.
     
  21. ingenious macrumors 65832

    ingenious

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    #21
    the iBox looks cool! http://www.2khappyware.com/ibox/ i want one, i want one!
     
  22. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #22
    Hmm, i suppose a transplant could be possible, but there's a reason i don't see this happening.

    The iMac boards may not even fit the SFF enclosure The iMac logic board width/shape may create some problems. Even then, PC-side SFF's can house powerhouse gaming systems (Athlon 64 / 800fsb P4C's or P4EE's)...the G4's aren't quite at that point yet.

    The reasoning behind SFF is power in a small size...so i gues we are still waiting for the G5 in iMac size *_*
     
  23. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #23

    Of the major computer companies, Apple, Dell, Gateway, HP, Sony, Toshiba, etc., only Apple and Dell are turing have been turning a profit. It's funny that you blast Apple for its low market share but threaten to get an Alienware PC even though, at absolute *best*, Alienware has the same market share that Apple does. Where is the logic in that? And instead of comparing Apple to everything-not-Apple why don't you compare Apple to other business on a one-on-one basis? It's not excatly accurate to compare Apple to the combined efforts of a dozen or more other companies. Market share isn't the end all, be all statistic. You can have a large market share but still be in dire financial straights. At this point in time I'd feel much more secure buying a new Mac than a new Gateway.

    Is Apple perfect? No. Do the iMacs need a serious update? Yes. I think the problem is in the exicution of their business model and not their business model itself.


    Lethal
     
  24. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #24
    Please that wendigo lets not talk about companies who sells componets for more then they are worth. Apple has done that for years and even today. They make everyone else look like a best buy. also lets keep your post a little shorter, perhaps you should write a book about spelling,punctuation and world knowledge. While your at it do a nice chapter about MARKETSHARE! it seems you have missed that class.
     
  25. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #25
    So? Does that at all change that Alienware is far overpriced for what they sell, and that they don't even have Apple's hardware problems as an excuse?

    Way to miss the point, tiger. :rolleyes:

    You know, it's kind of funny that you sound just like a guy I work with. Too bad he was homeless for two years, smoked crack, has only one tooth on the upper row because of it, and always comes to me to fix his computer... Any time I demolish one of his half-baked stories while he's telling them to someone else, he starts in on my erudition and range of genral knowledge, saying that I ought to have a book if I'm so smart. Well, that doesn't at all change that you can't defeat my arguments, sir.

    All you can do is make noise and throw insults, and the people who actually understand things read these discussions and agree with me, whether outright or in private messages. I've made a couple of friends, just from my willingness to keep on countering your FUD.

    Does that tell you something?

    (Incidentally, for the watchers, I'm not joking or lying about the coworker. He's real, and that's a true and accurate description of him. He also loves reality TV.)
     

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