So how many?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stubeeef, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    Aug 10, 2004
    #1
    Been alot of going to Canada, or Europe, or Utopia talk. Anyone here made it yet?
    With the nationwide numbers checking into it, some will make the jump, just curious if any firsthanders here.
    I heard a few countries saying don't bother to look "here" unless you are an in-demand individual.
     
  2. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #2
    I have to finish grad school first, so I'm here until at least next summer. Then I'll start looking. I think that I'll try to alleviate my desire to not be here by an overseas assignment/job first. Depending on how the world goes from then on, I'll start looking into other options. England's easy. I have lots of relatives there. I qualify as "in-demand" as far as Canada is concerned. I think New Zealand is a long shot. I think I want to stick with the English speaking world. The other language I know is Russian--and I'm too lazy to want to have to learn (to fluency) a third.
     
  3. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #3
    Sorry to disappoint, stubeef, but some phony, false macho, chicken hawk, alcoholic, born-again, cowboy-playing, frat-boy from New England isn't going to scare me out of my country. Now, if he tries to reinstitute the draft then I'll figure a way to get my kids out of the country! They aren't going to be more fodder for Dubya's wars.
     
  4. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #4
    So is this the rational discussion we have been waiting for?

    Sounds like more of the same to me. Are you just here to bait people or do you actually have something to say?
     
  5. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    Aug 10, 2004
    #5
    You're not dissapointing me, as far as the draft you'll have to ask the dems if they plan to try another bill to start the draft.

    No baiting, honest curiosity, there has been so much discussion on these forums about it that I wanted to know how it was going?

    I tried to get the wife to repat to NZ/AU in the mid 90's, albiet for different reasons, she wouldn't bite. Being married can make it harder.
     
  6. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #6
    In kind of a hurry to see us leave, eh? <-- (Might as well get used to that expression. ;) )

    As you say, some will. paulwhannel and his partner certainly seem to be serious about it. I'm looking at jobs in Canada now as well as the U.S. It'll be a complicated decision -- my 19-year-old daughter who lives with us doesn't want to change colleges, so she'd have to stay behind with a relative (though she acknowledges that when she graduates, she may have to move to Canada to find a job as well).

    But it's not going to happen tomorrow, for any of us. Many countries will welcome you a lot more eagerly if you have pre-arranged employment, and that takes time.

    My next door neighbor, an immigrant, is moving back to Italy. He was already disappointed with Bush, and when he lost his job recently he and his wife started thinking seriously about moving back with his family. The election pretty much sealed it. His house is for sale now, so yup, he's really going.
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #7
    Dude, I live on the Central California coast. I ain't leavin' here cuz of Bush. Have you seen what the weather is like here?

    Plus, around here we have REAL cowboys, not Northeastern elitists playing cowboy. ;)
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    That's the main reason I'm for blue state secession. I want to leave red state puritanism, but keep the good weather. :D
     
  9. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    Sorry, I thought the whole topic was flamebait. As in "when are all you ****s planning on leaving?" If there is a real honest curiosity behind the question, then my answer is simply I'm not. As after '72 and '80, I plan to stay and work to stop the disaster in process.
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    I live in a very red county in the blue state of Pennsylvania where jobs are dying and unchecked sprawl is eating our only remaining asset, our pristine farmland (and woodland).
    About the only downside of Ontario or Quebec would be missing 20 degrees a few weeks of the year.

    Even the Amish are leaving Lancaster.
     
  11. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #11
    I'm planning on keeping a US address at my parent's house so I can continue to vote. :D

    Gotta love dual citizenship.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    Same here, I live in a heavily red area of California. But I came from a heavily blue area before that.
     
  13. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #13
    Bravo!
     
  14. amnesiac1984 macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    I hear Vancouver is a nice place.

    Just out of curiosity, and it is off-topic but sorta related. Somebody mentioned the draft. Due to the relatively recent allowance of women in the military, would a draft involve women too? I don't remember seeing any women fighters in vietnam flicks and that was the last time the draft was instituted? :p
     
  15. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #15
    perhaps that explains why there is no dual-citizenships possible for austrians ;) (either you are an austrian or you are not .. but with EU laws it's not really that easy anymore ;) )
     
  16. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #16
    Personally, I am kind of torn.

    On one hand I have always wanted to move either back to Europe or to Canada bacause I appreciate their socio-economic policy and lifestyle more than the American model. This is not to say one is better than the other, but the relentless darwinian competion which fuels some of the entrepreneurial successes here in the US, is not for me. I personally am happy to sacrifice a large amount of money, both in the form of increased taxes and lost earning potential, to live in a society that effectively cover's it's citizens basic needs. I also appreciate the fact that I may not have to work myself to death and neither will my neighbors. I want to lead an enjoyable life, a rich one, and that entails more than a bulge in the bank account. I also appreciate the progressive values and the growth involved in learning and dealing with multiple languages. I would like my child to be truly bi-lingual.

    On the other hand, I do appreciate the uniqueness of America, the beauty of it's geography and of some of it's culture. Some Art, literature and music are beyond compare. I almost see a flowering of the arts in opposition to the main sway towards Conservatism, as if it feeds off of the possibilities taken by mainstream culture to explore the rest. I also like some of the hyper-convenience of America, which I would have to give up. I also feel that I should stay and fight for what I believe in, as my opinion has as much validity as anyone elses. I do deeply believe in the system, despite it's current situation. It is my hope that as America declines in power worldwide over the next years, it will do so gracefully and adopt, almost by default, a more internal focus by returning to a more isolationist policy. I feel much could be accomplished.

    Last night, while playing some pool, I ran into a Saudi man, who is a student at my University. He has been studying here for seven years, the last couple in Portland, and before that, Arkansa(!). He told me many interesting stories about hassles he has received from both the Government and regular people since 9/11, most notably the dissolution of his engagement to an American woman in the wake of 9/11, because the woman's mother was convinced he was a terrorist. Some of these were truly terrible stories, but he still seemed to take everything in stride. He still really wants to stay here.

    When my friend and I commented on the possibility of us leaving the US, he looked at us incredulously, as if we were crazy, because to many, America still is a beacon, or at least an improvement. His other comment was priceless: "why would you move to another country? You will not be safe from being invaded by Bush." Interesting.

    As for what I am actually doing, I am finishing up my Grad Degree in Interior Architecture, so I will be a professional when applying for entrance into other countries in a year or two. I have already inquired about Architecture Firms in Vancouver and understand the process. I also used to be an English Citizen (I had to give it up in my teens), but due to relatives, the UK would still be pretty easy for me. If I was willing to put in the time, I would have a ticket to the EU as well. I also have Swiss relatives, so I have a potential in to one of the most difficult countries to emigrate to. I am also thinking about teaching English abroad, either in Eastern Europe or Japan.

    So it is nice to have options. I am not going anywhere just yet. I am going to work on my foreign language skills in the meantime, however. I look at the current situation as an opportunity, as are all situations.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #17
    yeah and if you consider moving somewhere else (and consider getting passport/citizenship there) watch out for countries who have a conscription service...
    in austria if you immigrate and get your citizenship(it takes a few years normally as far as i know..except athlets they get it faster) before you turn 35 you get a nasty surprise-letter from the army ..i did get to know a nice bunch of 30-34 year olds family fathers who came here at younger age who weren't very happy ... (they make no exceptions..even athlets have to do their service in ,of course, champagne units)..they even take people who are not allowed to lift more than 20 pounds,peopel with multiple allergies, orcan't stand around for more than 20 minutes,start punking after running 800meters (without gear)... but you always can make something like "social replacement service" if you don't want to do the army and work in a hospital etc. for 4 months more....
     
  18. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #18
    If I moved to canada it would have to be Vancouver, the best sushi in all the americas!
     
  19. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #19
    For once, Stu, we are in complete agreement.
    <looks to see if sky is falling>
     
  20. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #20
    The red states don't believe in Darwin. They're strict creationists. Which probably explains why they're okay with the current kleptocracy that encourages no-bid contracts to cronies.
     
  21. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    Aug 10, 2004
    #21
    Actually, methinks you paint with to broad a brush. (sorry mact) Perhaps you meant they don't believe in his theory. Anyway, except Utah, most of the red states are purple. WM had a great thread on that.

    I struggle with the fact that science constantly aludes to the existance of God. Who said God doesn't build with DNA? The big bang theory is right in line with my beliefs. I can believe that God created with DNA, but there are certainly a lot of holes from there. In a previous thread I listed as one of my favorite movies "Contact". I think it shows the struggle between the two that may just prove they are the same!
    I don't have a problem with darwin taught in schools, it absolutely should be, but why is it the only thing taught? Where is the open mindness here?

    I wouldn't characterize kerry and edwards as evangelical, but they believe marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. Because I believe that I am now a wackedout jesusland neocon. The retoric is become so prevasive that it now seems habitual, some couldn't stop if they tried.

    And evangelical enthusiasm is not all bad, Dr Martin Luther King would start a thread on that. Granted some use it as a mantel to project power instead of solution, but it is the same with politics, some talk a good game, but are there for themselves.

    Oh well, sorry I went on so long, let the attack begin. :cool:
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    You can teach creationism as soon as I get to teach Turtolitarianism in schools. :D

    The problem with most of this 'Why isn't creationism taught as an option?' stuff is that there are so many versions of the creation story that as soon as you start teaching one religion's version of the creation myth, you have to teach another. And another. And pretty soon you are teaching Greek mythology in history classes.

    I've got no problem with the Biblical creation mythology being taught in a literature class, particularly in a comparitive sort of way, but as history or biology? No way.
     
  23. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    Aug 10, 2004
    #23
    You can at least sum it up in a paragraph such as:

    "Many people of all cultures throughout the world hold beliefs, either religous or otherwise, that the human race was created in the eye of the maker. They do not believe in the evolution of man from simple one celled organisims"

    Well I am sure an english lit major could do better, but that would not take more that a couple of minutes with any commentary added.
     
  24. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #24
    That made me smile! :)
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    Stu,
    I would submit that one of sciences greatest assets is that it is primarily engaged in the "How?" and less of the "Why?". The "how" can easily be addressed via the scientific method and the results and methodology laid out w/o an intrinsic value judgement.

    Personally, I feel that science points to the existence of a higher power. Many of the greatest scientist have been very spiritual individuals.

    I also worry about the excesses of humanism in sciences (or in general) where man is so impressed with itself, it forgets it's obvious limits.

    Nevertheless, I beleive that injecting Creationism into scientific curriculum is a poor idea. There is little in the way of facts to back up the premise and to me, more importantly it adds a loaded value-judgement in the one area we are to attempt to be impartial.

    The problem with God, as it relates to science, is that it forstalls the asking or investigation of the deeper questions. Sure, on a philosophical level, Religion might inspire those questions, but if the answer to everything was "because God created it..." (as it once was), we would not have any scientific development or inquiry at all.

    Also, is not Religion/faith something better suited to be taught in the home? Science, by it's complex nature is not easily explainable by the layman, while Religion, consisting mainly of articles of Faith and belief can be. It is also, imo, a deeply personal matter and something to be shared within a family setting. Do you agree?
     

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