So many problems, so few cojones.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mischief, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #1
    Okay, I've been seeing the various global hotbutton topics pop up here recently and I want to hear SOLUTIONS dammit.

    I'm starting this thread to see if, among what has proven to be a fairly mentally adept crowd there can be found actual SOLUTIONS to the issues (and others like them) that I'll list below. I'd like to go through them and really go through each one... not from the usual "here's the problem" angle because the problems are well defined. I want solutions. none of this stopgap, vote getting, keep funding my research garbage neither. These are all things that require long term PLANS.

    * Terrorism.

    * World Hunger.

    * Global Climatic Imballance.

    * Global Ecological Imballance.


    Pick one and go for it.
     
  2. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #2
    Those would make for a great game of "who's on first" or "chicken/egg"...

    more seriously, I'll think on it...
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    You will not 'solve' or 'defeat' terrorism.

    It is a strategy, a tactical approach to being faced with a superior military threat that has been used for centuries.

    It may be waged by sophisticated, intelligent people or fanatical psychopaths or both...

    It has no regard for the Geneva Convention because from a terrorist's perspective... the end justifies the means.

    One person's terrorism is another's 'freedom fighter'...
     
  4. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #4
    All of this is still defining the problem.

    The root of which is the imballance of context between the first and third worlds.

    So for Terrorism the question becomes:

    How do you resolve a cultural gulf that is re-enforced by xenophobic ideologues at both ends?
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    Not enough orgasms? Sort it out yourself.

    Unless, of course, you meant "climatic"... :D
     
  6. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #6
    Your definition of terrorism doesn't seem to include: Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Omaha City... amongst others.

    These disputes have nothing to do with 1st v. 3rd worlds.

    As long as there are fanatics, there will be terrorism...
     
  7. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #7
    Touche.
     
  8. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #8
    I'll pick two. Take all of the terrorists food and give it to the hungry. :D
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #9
    for the separatists, give 'em some land and self-rule. for the islamic fundamentalists, get foreign troops out of their holy land.

    any terrorist goals i've missed?
     
  10. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #10
    Where do you see fanaticism's root?

    This is not a problem of fanatics simply existing or being born such. Certain conditions must exist. These include isolation, economic fugue in the region, social power lying in either a literal or de facto Theocracy and desperation.

    These are then channelled by the Theocracy into an agressive and violent outlet directed at some outside group that is demonized and blamed for the current condition. So rather than focussing on bettering their conditions the emphasis has become one of violent scapegoating. Often this is based on the half-truth that the culture being blamed had, in past generations been responsible for the conditions that lead to the above conditions. The logic being that current generations are complicit and must be punnished.

    This too is digression. What do you suggest DOING about it? Historically violence ALWAYS agggrivates the problem by justifying the case of the idologues promoting violence.
     
  11. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #11
    Complications:

    Where? From what I can tell, any piece of habitable land on the planet is claimed by at least three groups. Shall we simply declare some of the most hotly contested areas non-countries and forbid ANYONE live in them? Jerusalem for instance?

    (This has realy been getting to me so please forgive my tone.)


    Fundamentalists.... Has anyone else noticed that Fundamentalists aren't really fundamentalists? They're really ultra-conservatives who want to go back to the "old ways" that have little or nothing to do with the thrust of their religion. Puritains are the best western example I can think of. Am I full of **** or are we enabling these groups by acknowledging their legitimacy more than is healthy?
     
  12. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #12
    upon further reflection:

    the only actual solution to terrorism (or all the problems) is to end humanity. Harsh, but true.

    short of that, trimming a few billion off the world's register would probably cause at least some of the these problems to be addressed by the more thoughtful. Disasters of this magnitude would also exarcerbate world-hunger and the potential for terrorism, but I have found that humanity is at it's best when faced with disaster and might actually realize that we are all human. Temporary solution at best, and unlikely to be uniform.

    Satisfying a human's base needs for security, meaningfulness, and dignity would go a long way. Of course, then new needs pop up...education, sanitation and music help with that. Sexual gratification and love fit in there too.

    With education, however, there is the question of what should be taught, which will never be homogenous (nor should it) and therefore always a point of contention.

    Since everyone is unique, and we are not equal it is difficult have a plan that covers everyone w/o stifling that which is best about humanity.

    It is what is worst about humanity that we are talking about, of course, and it is hard-wired into each of us. Some of us, through religion, or education, or intelligence will be able to mitigate this dark side, but it is difficult. Entropy is a physical law. It is the curse of free will, an complex world beyond our understanding and short lives.

    Things are bound to be tied up in unfortunate ironys and paradoxes. You might say that the wiser or the the more affluent should assist those who are foolish and without, but is anyone wise enough to make the correct choices about other people's lives? More importantly, will the foolish understand the reasons and context of these actions? It is misunderstandings such as these that give rise to conflict and cliche.

    I believe that the Bible is pretty good at spelling out these inherent human flaws and attempting to posit solutions. It also ultimately says it won't work and we will all be destroyed. Problem solved, one way or the other.
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    the devil's in the details, of course. some examples of areas in which i would consider supporting separatism:
    - the basque region of spain
    - kashmir
    - northern sri lanka
    - southern phillippines
    - southern US
    - northern ireland
    - kurdistan
    - uigers in china
    - tibet

    these are all examples of more or less indiginous people wanting self-rule (okay, southern US is a stretch). outmatched militarily, many of them turn to terror as a way to 1) get attention, and 2) achieve their goals of self-rule. the reluctance of the ruling country to do so is, imo, more a function of what's best for the ruling country than what's best for the inhabitants.

    terror is a way to change the calculation of what's best for the ruling country. provide self-rule, terror drops.

    i'm going to start a thinktank. "Half-Baked" is the first name that springs to mind :)
     
  14. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #14
    An excellent response...

    "Satisfying a human's base needs for security, meaningfulness, and dignity would go a long way. Of course, then new needs pop up...education, sanitation and music help with that. Sexual gratification and love fit in there too.

    With education, however, there is the question of what should be taught, which will never be homogenous (nor should it) and therefore always a point of contention.

    Since everyone is unique, and we are not equal it is difficult have a plan that covers everyone w/o stifling that which is best about humanity."

    This is the best most simply profound way I've seen to express this in quite a while.

    It's quite obvious that none of these are issues that cen be made to "go away", however this does not render them hopeless issues nor issues that can be excused as being unworkable because of their nature. Your suggestions on where to start are spot on.

    We can agree then that human compassion must be the driving force in combatting Terrorism correct?

    Now how do we go about working that Compassion into a reciprocal solution?
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    If the aborigine drafted an IQ test, all of Western civilization would presumably flunk it. -- Stanley Marion Garn, anthropologist (1922- )
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    i don't think we have to. it would come about as a matter of course.
     
  17. mischief thread starter macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #17

    I can see your point. I just wanted to draw you out a bit. Do you support returning ancestral Tibal lands to Native American tribes... or the nearest facsimile (National Parks)?
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    i would consider it, yes.
     
  19. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #19
    In part, you proved my larger point...mired in such relativism, who's to judge the standards?

    That doesn't stop people from making, from their POV, logical assumptions about such matters (or any others).

    I did not mean to imply that Wisdom and Affluence belonged together, that affluence referred to monetary standards, or that the West has anything to do with either. Still, we do have iPods and such...

    The fact that most of us here on this forum come from a singular Culture/Civilization and still can't understand each other, let alone agree, does not bode well for the larger picture. Plus, there will always be a "Voltron" in the mix...
     
  20. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #20
    A couple more suggestions:

    - Capitalism, as we know it would have to go. What to replace it with, I am unsure. Of the top of the head, I would consult EF Schumacher, perhaps the best economist of modern times. Economies of scale and relavance. I am of the opinion that Capitalism encourages conflict. Also the rest of the list.

    - We might have a chance of pulling things together about the time we truly understand Quantum Physics. The principles are very applicable (on multiple levels). Same, to a lesser extent, with Fusion. Added benefit of Energy source.

    - Democracy may have to go to, or a new, limited form of it developed. Preferably, the populace would be rise to task, but the former is easier, so is probably the better bet. Best bet is a decentralized federation, on the city-state level, keeping power diffused and issues simple and relevant.

    - Space travel would help, as people could leave and fu** up other worlds.
     
  21. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
    i'm fond of saying that "everything is a resource allocation problem". though i've backed off on that a bit (after many conversations w/ friends about exceptions, but that's another story), i think it's definitely applicable here.

    here are the resources which need to be allocated properly:
    1. natural resources
    2. power
    3. money

    it is my belief that the 1st world's energy demands force it to take from regions outside their domains, leading (to put it mildly) to strife. the most obvious example is middle east oil.
     
  22. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #22
    I absolutely agree (see above post, first paragraph). I also have a few minor caveats, but it is the largest singular contributer to problems, with the exception of ignorance.

    Which is why I would add "knowledge" to that list.

    A slightly contentious addition (in definition and execution) as noted, but necessary.
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    i should probably list the classes of problems. in order of prevalence:
    1. resource allocation
    2. communication
    3. logging

    knowledge/education is interesting. on one hand, communication problems destroy knowledge. but there's also the aspect that poor monetary and priority resource allocation contributes to undereducation. good find.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  25. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #25
    What about taking all the terrorists and feeding them to the hungry, aka "Soylent Green."
     

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