software piracy .. so who's buying??

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by 5300cs, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. 5300cs macrumors 68000


    Nov 24, 2002
    This thought occured to me the other day when I spoke to someone I work with (though am we're not friends.) I was talking about a game for pocket pcs and how cool it was (yes I paid for it) and his first question was "can I get it for free somewhere?" with the eyebrows moving up & down and everything.

    That got me thinking, of all the computer people I've met over the years, very few of them seem to pay for any software. It's as if NO ONE is buying out there- what gives?

    Now I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here, I'm just saying that it seems like I never meet anyone who pays for software. Even people I've met for the first time: "DuDe! Have you tried KaZaA? OMFG you can download TONS OF SH!!" One guy I knew lived here for 4 years and proudly boasted that he had not once paid for software, save for the copy of win98 that came with his laptop. Once he got 0-day access on IRC f-serves, he start filling up 120gig drives with all sorts of stuff he'd never even use.

    Maybe I should move to another country...
  2. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Jan 6, 2004
    i pay for my software, but i do know plenty of people like you as well who dl useless stuff and boast about never paying for software
  3. Chubypig macrumors 6502

    Aug 30, 2004
    I pay (well my parents do for me) I don't usually need very much software though, and i never buy games, just play the demos and move on.
  4. njmac macrumors 68000


    Jan 6, 2004
    I told a friend that I paid for the Apple Production Suite, Office 2004 and Photoshop CS and he said it made him sick that I would spend all that money when I could have gotten it for free. For a minute, I thought, well maybe I am crazy I could have saved 1000+ bucks but then I came to my senses.
  5. Chaszmyr macrumors 601


    Aug 9, 2002
    I have a lot of software and every shred of it was purchased legally. My friends are always like "Why would you spend so much money on things you can get for free?"

    My answer of course is "you cant just 'get' them for free, you can steal them for free. By your logic, the only reason you steal software and don't steal from stores or other people is because you know when you steal software you won't get caught. The true character of a man is shown by what he will do when he knows he won't be caught."

    With that being said: If you steal software, there is no tangible items that are being stolen, therefore no one is being harmed unless you would have bought the software if it were not available for free. THEREFORE: I think software piracy can be justified if you truly would not or could not afford to buy it if that was the only way to get it. However, that in turn means if you can and would afford to buy it otherwise, you have an obligation to the software makers to actually pay for the software.
  6. whocares macrumors 65816


    Oct 9, 2002
    I've paid for about 95% of the software on my computer (including stuff like Adobe Design Suite, Office X, shareware, games, ...); and don't feel too bad about the 2-3 pieces of software I got via mlMac (no, I'm not saying what they are ;) ).

    I do feel I should give some money to some SourceForge projects, but haven't got round to it yet.
  7. wdlove macrumors P6


    Oct 20, 2002
    I also pay for my software. I'm one of those that it would bother me not to pay. When I download shareware that I like and use, then I pay the fee to the owner. It's the only way that we are going to continue to get new innovative software.
  8. eva01 macrumors 601


    Feb 22, 2005
    Gah! Plymouth
    i pay for my software, but if i find something that is freeware that i can use, i use that instead, because if i can get something for free legally then i use that instead of stealing ^_~

    and 5300cs

    i love your sig quote >_>

    boston owns
  9. ham_man macrumors 68020


    Jan 21, 2005
    i would for sure pay for all the software if I had a credit card, but when you are under 18 it is a bit difficult. With that said, I never download pirated software. There is the moral issue for one, as well as my paranoia that I am crapping up my system. Typically if I want some bit of software, I will either save to buy it or, if my parents think that the software warrants the price, they buy it.
  10. saabmp3 macrumors 6502a

    Jul 22, 2002
    Tacoma, WA
    Most of the major software companies get their revenue from companies that buy their software. That's why audits usually only go out to companies, not individuals.

    However, I've paid for about 50% of my software. With an edu discount, it comes out to under 5 dollars usually anyways.

  11. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    I've paid for all of my software. Having been a software developer for so long, I'm uncomfortable any other way--except for a free trial or freeware.

    There is plenty of software that I'd like to have that I don't have--maybe I never will but I can feel better that I've done my part.
  12. ravenvii macrumors 604


    Mar 17, 2004
    Melenkurion Skyweir
    All software I have now, I paid for. I am absolutely free of any 'stolen' software.

    But I ain't a saint either. Some software I have pirated are Photoshop 6.0 (own a legal copy of Photoshop CS now) and Transmit (Yes I know I'm bad... I sort of made it up by finally purchasing Transmit 3.0 after using 2.x for a year without paying for it).
  13. ~loserman~ macrumors 6502a

    Nov 10, 2004
    Land flowing with Milk and Honey
    I steal/pirate almost every piece of software I get then;
    If I like it or find it useful I go out and buy it. Otherwise I just delete it.
  14. Lukasha macrumors newbie

    Feb 19, 2005
    Los Angeles
    I try to buy software that I use regularly, and as a computer consultant, I always recommend people buy their software, but I also need to be able to support people and all the software they use, and I just can't afford to buy all the software out there. So, I do get stuff through illegal means and run it and teach myself how to use it. But 99% of the time, it's not software that I normally use myself.

  15. hob macrumors 68020


    Oct 4, 2003
    London, UK
    I must unfortunately admit to not paying for several pieces of major software and I will name them now:

    Microsoft Office
    Adobe Photoshop CS
    Final Cut Express HD
    Logic Express

    However, before I get my balls chopped off, may I point out that all of the above are used for educational purposes. I have not made a single penny out of any of the stuff I have used the software for, nor will I ever.

    When I'm not on £4.2k a year (average student loan amount) I shall most certainly pay for all the software I need - Gladly infact. My mum's about to get an iMac and I will instruct her to purchase Office, rather than letting myself download it for her...
  16. MattG macrumors 68040


    May 27, 2003
    Fletcher, NC
    I like paying for my software. Cheesy, but it gives me a sense of pride to be able to say "I paid for this, I own this." Same goes for my music. I've got 6000+ songs in my iTunes library, and all of it is from either the iTMS or CDs I own.
  17. clayj macrumors 604


    Jan 14, 2005
    visiting from downstream
    I pay for all my software, and wouldn't even DREAM of using pirated software. (Of course, it helps that I get to shop at the Microsoft Company Store... as an ex-employee, I get to buy Microsoft software and hardware dirt cheap. And no, sorry, I can't buy anything for you... there is a limit to how much I can buy each year, and I usually hit the limit right around the end of the year.) WRT third-party software, all I usually buy is AV software (Norton), TurboTax (each year), and the latest version of Flash when it's released.
  18. Littleodie914 macrumors 68000


    Jun 9, 2004
    Rochester, NY
    I've downloaded and currently use a few pieces of pirated software, including MS Office 2004 and Photoshop CS. I know it doesn't make a difference, but I use them for educational purposes only, and am trying to get myself to use NeoOfficeJ (or, I haven't decided) and the Gimp. As for games, I've bought all the ones I own. I have a dial-up connection, so it'd be faster for me to get a job, work for a few weeks, then purchase the game than it would to download it :D :rolleyes:
  19. Apple Hobo macrumors 6502a

    Apple Hobo

    Mar 19, 2004
    A series of tubes
    Myth: Mac users are more respectful of their software; they buy software rather than pirate it.

    I've seen the above many times on these forums, and I don't buy it (No pun intended!).

    When I find a really good piece of software, I enjoy supporting the company/author by paying for it.

    I've used warez, so I don't flame other people when they do. However, I personally don't like using stolen software, so I usually end up deleting warez from my machine after a very short time.
  20. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus


    Jan 9, 2004
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    I think the statistic was more along the lines of Mac users spend more money on commercial software in a per user sense, which does not necessarily imply this. But does anyone know if there's a source to that claim?

    FWIW, I own all the software I currently use, but I have been looser at times in the past. I try to buy whenever I can.
  21. bentley macrumors 6502

    Mar 20, 2005
    I'm on an income of £4,000 a year.

    Companies like Apple, Microsoft and Adobe, simply put, do not need my money and I have no moral issues with stealing their software.

    However I have no problem paying ~$30 for a small developers piece of Software. eg. Salling Clicker.
  22. clayj macrumors 604


    Jan 14, 2005
    visiting from downstream
    Part of the deal for me is that each machine I buy (Sony, Apple, etc.) comes with SO MUCH SOFTWARE that it almost isn't necessary to buy anything else. My Mac mini came with iLife, iTunes is free, etc. I did buy Office 2004 because I wanted Entourage and Excel, but I get a good discount on that. And on my Sonys, I get Photoshop Elements, all sorts of Sony A/V software (Click to DVD, etc.)... so all I ever need to buy is updated antivirus software and a couple of apps (Flash, Final Draft, PartitionMagic).
  23. flyfish29 macrumors 68020


    Feb 4, 2003
    New HAMpshire
    Niether does Virgin so go steal a couple of CD's why don't ya?

    I don't make much money either but I don't steal.

    chopping away @ hob----> Why does that matter first of all. You are getting the education to make money in the futurearen't you? So that means that since I personally don't have a job now and am in grad school myself I can walk out with a text book from a bookstore and say I am not stealing- "it is for educational purposes only" Come on now! :rolleyes:

    Nice quote Chazmyr "The true character of a man is shown by what he will do when he knows he won't be caught."

    I own everything and I use demo's when they are there to evaluate software but never download illegally to try then purchase. That is like buying a pair of Levi's and wearing them for a month to see if they are comfy and cool, then going back and paying for them.

    I agree that Mac users probably steal as much as others give or take some. Unfortunately when 500,000 people steal a program that really cuts into the possible customer base for a company trying to sell Mac Software- in other words- potential customers for that program went down by a very large percentage.
  24. Mav451 macrumors 68000


    Jul 1, 2003
    It is a grey area, I'll admit.

    In terms of my "violations", which most people could admit to one time or another is MS Office.

    Aside from that, my games have been legit. HL1 for Counterstrike was actually a gift from a friend. Starcraft bought by me (BW gift from parents), TA and Doom3 bought by me.

    In terms of using s/w that could have implications on my job in the future:

    ArcGIS I use in my class, but even I can't find this pirated much. Why? Well it is very specific civil engineering/urban planning software that I doubt your average teen would use. Meh, I have to go to the engineering wing/lab to use it anyway. Matlab, on the other hand, is unfairly not given to students (at least a student code/version). There are thousands of students who need to use it (Calc1, Calc2, Diff EQ, Civ E., Comp E, EE, Comp Sci, etc.) There is no way all of them can fit into the few labs that have it on campus.

    In this case, for convenience (especially commuters), I would not codemn them using Matlab when Calc1 to Diff EQ are essentially the Engineering School "weeder" courses. For most, I doubt Matlab would be used in the future.
  25. applekid macrumors 68020

    Jul 3, 2003
    Well, I can't say I've been clean. I downloaded most of my games for many years. I've stopped a couple of years ago. I realized a) one day I'm gonna get caught because I keep finding the servers I hang out at are going down b) I know it's bad and now I'm pretty much addicted c) being an aspiring game developer, I was doing my fellow developer a disservice by not purchasing the software I use. I've been slowly replacing pirated copies of games with legal copies. Luckily most of my games are pretty old and the prices have dropped since then. I've got admit there's something nice for purchasing something and holding it.

    There is one certain pirate I think we can all fix up. I call that pirate the "lazy pirate." These pirates are too lazy to hunt for deals ( and works wonders...), or if they are a student, are ill-informed about getting software cheap or free.

    First off start hunting for deals. I've found software 20% cheaper than retail. Sometimes software bundled with hardware is worth the costs. For example, buying a Wacom tablet gets you software that just pays for itself, when you purchase the right bundle. Anyhow, don't be lazy and start finding those deals.

    Now the lazy student pirate needs to understand how to use their library and/or education stores. PennState for example allows students to borrow MS Office, MacOS X, and Windows XP. Free software at libraries! Even though this isn't software-related, I was able to borrow some nice DVDs at my local library. I borrowed 24 Season 1, and now I am hooked. I'm going to have to buy it some day. Back to the topic at hand...

    Education stores are easier to find. Apple's education store gets you some pretty sweet deals on their software. FCP, iLife, OS X, etc. are super cheap. The Academic Superstore has non-Apple software for cheap as well.

    The other kind of pirate that I think is actually pathetic are the ones that say "I can't afford the software and the company is a capitalistic pig, but I have no use for it, so I'll just go ahead and pirate it." Look, if you're so angry or even jealous of a rich company, that's okay. Instead of pirating form them, just ignore them. It works quite nicely and there aren't any legal troubles behind it. Also, the big names are now starting to create consumer-level software at consumer-level prices. Photoshop Elements, FCP Express, and MS Office for students are examples. Instead of bickering about software that wasn't really intended for you and pirating it, why don't you buy the cheap version? I can't tell what features are missing from Photoshop Elements vs. Photoshop. Anyhow, those types of pirates have twisted morals or crappy parents, so I think they themselves just crap.

    Part of the problem is from software companies though. For things like Photoshop, FCP, or even MS Office, they shouldn't have appealed to consumers in the first place. Photoshop wasn't intended for the regular joe. Unfortunately some idiot decided that Photoshop is just a necessity in this day and age and so people began pirating it because they don't have cash. MS Office is another example of spreading from the pros down to the consumers. MS Office was a fine office suit. But, some idiot somewhere said let's use MS Office at home and started pirating their business's copy.

    Maybe the reason pro software is so expensive is to deter the regular joe. What a concept.

    And, to all pirates: let's not forget almost every pro or expensive app has a free or low-cost alternative these days from other companies. GIMP vs. Photoshop. MS Office vs. OpenOffice. Don't tell my you had no choice.

    And one last message to those pirates: Think twice before you start downloading. How would you feel is somebody was cutting your potential profit or even real profit by pirating or stealing your work? What if your company had to close up or lay you off or cut your paycheck because some idiot decided it was right to pirate or steal?

    I find it hard to believe that pirates enjoy what they do. I've been there. It became to a point where it was like an addiction. I came to a point where I downloaded useless software just because I could. I had no use for it, but I downloaded it anyway. I felt sick inside because of what I did, and I gave up. I never actually enjoyed pirating. I got no satisfaction from what I pirated. The software I downloaded didn't feel as good compared to when I purchased them. Hopefully one day you will see that, too.

    And just wait for that hammer to fall on you. Suprnova went down. MTKA is probably taking their last breaths now (those pansies locked up their invitation system for a reason). And, of course, how many Carracho and Hotline servers have fallen in these last years? Why are so many pirating hotspots locking up or forcing accounts or create ridiculous demands? They're on the run. The game is almost over. Law enforcement is about to get a step-ahead of pirates for once.

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