Soldiers call for Iraq withdrawal; Bush rejects most dramatic Iraq options

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Dec 16, 2006.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Whether this works is problematical at best, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

    Some of the comments from American soldiers are as saddening as anything you read in Michael Moore's book, "Will They Ever Trust Us Again?"

    The Nation

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

    The Examiner

    * Sigh. *
     
  2. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #2
    So 1,000 guys sign some petition and we're supposed to withdraw? I betcha they could find more than 1,000 who want to finish the job. ;)
     
  3. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #3
    The fact that "Sgt. Gary" referred to the President as "Bush" and not "the President" or "the Commander-in-Chief" tells me what I need to know. I grew up in the military and I don't think I ever heard an officer or enlisted soldier refer to the President just by his last name.

    "Sgt. Gary" is obviously someone who doesn't want to be in the military. There are always going to be malcontents who forgot that being in the military means you are sometimes sent to battle... it's not all waterskiing and shore leave.
     
  4. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #4
    That's funny. My brother's in infantry. His HMMWV took a direct mortar round down the turret while they were out on patrol last week. I remember the one time he was back from Iraq and we were bopping around the DC area in my car listening to the radio, some local station is trying to get people to call in and complain about their bosses. My brother starts off, "He's stupid, he loves oil..."

    He lost nine shells from his combat shotgun last week too. But what do I know? He's just some ****ing priss who obviously isn't up to your standards of the military, where men are mindless cogs.

    Oh, no, where are my eyes going? :rolleyes:
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    Remind me, what does "finish the job" mean?
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    Anyone who doesn't kiss the arse of whoever is giving the orders, good or bad, is a malcontent. Disagreement is so unpatriotic.
     
  7. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #7
    i dont think its a soldiers place to "disagree". They are trained to do what they are told. Thats their job. Of course the can disagree in their off time but not while their on duty.
     
  8. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #8
    Back in the day they would have lined up these men and shot them. Or at the very least had them imprisoned.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Back in the day ******* civilians didn't screw up the military.
     
  10. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    "He's five feet two and he's six feet four
    He fights with missiles and with spears
    He's all of 31 and he's only 17
    He's been a soldier for a thousand years

    He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
    a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
    and he knows he shouldn't kill
    and he knows he always will
    kill you for me my friend and me for you

    And he's fighting for Canada,
    he's fighting for France,
    he's fighting for the USA,
    and he's fighting for the Russians
    and he's fighting for Japan,
    and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

    And he's fighting for Democracy
    and fighting for the Reds
    He says it's for the peace of all
    He's the one who must decide
    who's to live and who's to die
    and he never sees the writing on the walls

    But without him how would Hitler have
    condemned him at Dachau
    Without him Caesar would have stood alone
    He's the one who gives his body
    as a weapon to a war
    and without him all this killing can't go on

    He's the universal soldier and he
    really is to blame
    His orders come from far away no more
    They come from him, and you, and me
    and brothers can't you see
    this is not the way we put an end to war."

    Buffy Sainte Marie
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    I really hope you aren't advocating that. This still the United States- I hope.
     
  12. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #12
    "Unless each of us conforms, unless we obey orders, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can be free." -- Maj. Frank Burns
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    I wasn't aware of this song. Very good stuff. Can we make it a Sticky?
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    "Only following orders" is not a defence. Each person has to make their own decision. Otherwise, what is the meaning of freedom?
     
  15. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #15
    Thomas,

    Do you think the real reason to invade Iraq was to gain control of the oil fields because the ones in Saudi Arabia are about to dry up?
     
  16. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #16
    Of course not because Saudi Arabia was about to "dry up". But we did establish a government that controls oil and is friendly to, even dependent upon, us. We also now have military bases there.

    It certainly wasn't for any of the "official" reasons: "Iraq had connections to 9/11"/"Iraq has WMDs"/"We want to overthrow an evil dictator".
     
  17. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #17
    No, this is only one of the many reasons we should do something other than what we are currently doing that isn't working. Alone, it actually does mean something because this is almost unheard of. But combined with everything else, it's just another in a long line of ignored wake up calls.

    Or he thinks that things are going so bad that he should say something lest it continue, or even get worse.

    Which is why this is such a big deal.

    How very Christian of you. :rolleyes: Remind me again what thrives when good men do nothing. That's not the America I want to live in. Last I checked, even soldiers have the right to their opinions. Especially if the people in charge are doing everything wrong.

    This amazes me. How can anybody still defend how badly things are going in Iraq? You have people who've been there talking about the problems, like when Rummie was asked about a lack of equipment in a Q&A with soldiers there. And yet you condemn them, make fun of them, say they should be in prison or killed. All because they're giving their honest opinion of a reality those you defend do not want to see. Is this what we call supporting the troops?

    Were you in there shoes, would you feel the same?
     
  18. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

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    #18
    Well as a National Guard member and having spent from December 2003 to March 2005 on active duty with a year of that time in Iraq, I can see how some soldiers feel, but then again, just like me, it was their choice to go into the military in the first place. When I got in almost 11 years ago I knew that there was a possibility of going to war. Well I ended up going and looking back it was a learning experience for me.

    Of course, I am not jumping up and down in anticipation of going again. It does look like Bush will soon be escalating the war, so by this time next year who knows where I will be. I hope not, but at this point I am preparing myself for anything. I think one tour over there is enough in a lifetime!
     
  19. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #19
    i bet you have one of these on your car.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #20
    My Cousin did 1 (Marines), and was happy to be out. He doesn't talk about it. My best friend did 3. I can tell you, his whole family doesn't like this administration at the moment. This isn't what they signed up for. I look at people like them, and Pat Tillman, and wonder how many others signed up to go to Afghanistan, or for WMDs, only to be sent to die or get hurt in Iraq so people can say "they knew what they were getting into" from the comfort of their living rooms. And then call it supporting the troops.

    Just so you know, it's not you we don't support. We support you. And anyone else who's out there, whether they feel this is right or not. We just wish the people who sent you there planned things a little better so you wouldn't have to be sent again.
     

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