Some real Xenon info...

Discussion in 'Games' started by saunders45, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. saunders45 macrumors 6502a

    saunders45

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  2. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #2
    Finally, some real information.

    The only thing I'm still skeptical on is the three core PowerPC. I'd like to know what kind of PowerPC processor this is. Surely they aren't normal G5's- either they're stripped down in some other way (cache, pipelines, you name it), or its gonna cost a fortune.

    But regular DVD's? lol...

    MS is gonna get burned. They're making some of the same mistakes Nintendo did: No hard drive built in, inferior media (I mean, these aren't even 9.4 GB disks, they're only 7 GB- PS3 will have Blu-ray, and the Nintendo Revolution is supposed to have HD-DVD). They're also alienating their previous audience, since before they had the people who wanted the hard drive and the best graphics, and now they'll have no HD and the worst graphics.

    Their only hope is that they can pull a PS2 and grab the market before the others come out. But the PS2 had a full years' lead over the others, while the XBox 2 will only have a couple of months.


    EDIT:
    For those of you just tuning in to this thread, I HIGHLY recommend you read the second page before you start posting. We cut through the XBox 2 hype and figure out how fast it is, realisticly.
     
  3. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #3
    most ps2 and xbox games come on CD's let allone DVD's this is no where near as importent as the cartridge Vs optical debate.
     
  4. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #4
    Uh, PS2 and XBox use DVDs, GameCube uses mini-DVD's at 1.6 GB.
    PS1 used CDs.
     
  5. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #5
    mmmhmmm. all PS2 and xbox games are DVD. Even if they are tiny demo discs.

    I think it's interesting that they didn't say the 3 cores were 64-bit capable...

    that could be a big part of the affordable equation.

    Also, it says that the cores will be able to do 2 operations per clock...is that something the current G5 does? I wasn't aware.
     
  6. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #6
    Other places I've seen (TeamXBox) claimed it was a POWER5 based processor.
    This actually makes sense. Remember, the Cell is supposed to have a POWER5 processor at 4.6 GHz, but its EXTREMELY stripped down and gets much less performance per MHz and has no AltiVec. If THIS is what MS is using, then it all makes sense. They run at 3 GHz, but get much less performance per MHz than a G5. So its kinda like having a high-clocked three-core G3 w/64-bit than a three-core G5.
     
  7. ddtlm macrumors 65816

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    #7
    benpatient:

    There's no reason for them to be. Games are not something that benefits from large integers (and clearly the Xbox isn't going to to have a lot of RAM.)

    G5's can do more than 2 ops per clock, as can most modern desktop processors.
     
  8. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #8
    i'm too old school, remember the N64 when the ps1 and the sega saturn were out?

    no they are not, demo disks tend to be as they have multiple game engines and high quality movie's, look at the disks and you can tell the difference between a cd one and a dvd one, the earlyer the game the more likly it'll be on a cd, if you dont belive me try one in a mac's cd drive.
     
  9. andrewfee macrumors 6502

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    #9
    In response to the above post, that's correct; some PS2 games are still on cd (blue bottomed discs) but I believe all Xbox games are on DVDs.

    Something that is annoying me though is that, although they've been told that they must use 720p and anti-aliasing, they've been told to ignore framerates and v-sync, which is worrying to say the least. Sure, good developers will care about framerate regardless, but what about the rest of them?

    Ever since Xbox developers were told that they could disable v-sync a while back, 99% of the games released since have had it disabled. :(
     
  10. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #10
    i know what you mean with the framerate issues, i cant play halo 2 on co-op at 720p without framelag.
     
  11. andrewfee macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Halo 2 only supports 480p ;)
    But tons of Xbox games have framerate issues; developers try to push the system too hard. (and it has quite a few design flaws, even though it has a lot of power)
     
  12. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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  13. oingoboingo macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #13
    I'm feeling old now. I remember getting an Atari 2600 for Christmas. Not the smaller, sleek reissued version either. The original clunker, with the ribbed plastic top and the fake wood grain front strip.
     
  14. Symtex macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Those were the gool ol' days. I also remember the coleco that came out afterward. It was all about donkey kong and burger time.
     
  15. saunders45 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    saunders45

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    #15
    Cell processor.... biggest joke of all time. The thing is, the "cell" processor is also going to have to handle video, sound, and normal processing in the PS3. It isn't going to have a dedicated GPU. Think of it as an emachine 4.6 celeron w/ intel integrated video, and sound. Yeah, there's your PS3.

    No blu-ray or HD-DVD. Whoopty freakin' doo. First, it'll cost a fortune, second, nobody knows which format will become standard. third, who cares. How many blu-ray/hd-dvds do you have. Also, how many of you actually own an HD-TV. See what i mean? Most people dont.

    256 mb ram? You have to remember, thats a crapload for a console. the xbox has 64mb, the ps2 has 32 and the gamecube has 48. Geez, the freakin' N64 had 4MB. All this means is that apple will have to include 512 in all their systems now. Can't have an xbox having more ram now, can we?

    ;)
     
  16. Stike macrumors 65816

    Stike

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    #16
    I wonder really about the heat/power consumption/cooling issue.
    This CPU here is called a three-core PPC... ever heard of this? Why three and not 2 or 4? Three sound so... odd... :eek:

    I also wonder what PPC was the father of this... the G3? G4? G5? Power 4 or 5? Hmmm... any ideas?
     
  17. dubbz macrumors 68020

    dubbz

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    #17
    Uhm.. what? I'm pretty sure NVIDIA is doing the GPU for the PS3.
     
  18. TDM21 macrumors 6502a

    TDM21

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    #18
    I still have my sisters Atari 2600, the exact one you describe. The machine still works flawlessly, even better then my NES. I remember games like Combat, Pac-Man, and Pole Position... Those were the days.
     
  19. ddtlm macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Stike:

    Also, they share an L2 cache, something which most multi-core products appear not to be doing. The only other stats we know (from that article) are that it clocks at 3ghz and can do 2 ops per cycle (per core I presume). The clockspeed pretty much rules out anything that bears much resemblance to a G3 or G4, but only 2 ops per clock is much weaker than a G5 core. IBM may have cooked up a special "lean" G5/power4 core. (Actually they must have, how else can it possibly run cool enough for a console?) Overall this sounds pretty strange to me.
     
  20. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #20
    There is no official word on that- the PS3 is supposed to have an NVidia GPU.
    HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't have to do with HDTV, it has to do with the amount of space on the disks.

    30 GB (HD) vs 54 GB (BR) vs 7 GB?

    The NR and PS3, both of which are coming out in 2003, will have HD-DVD and Blu-ray, respectively.

    Since they're going to run at 720p resolutions, textures will be HUGE compared to previous gen consoles, and ingame movies will also take up tons of space.

    7 GB is going to be a HUGE bottleneck.

    Nintendo has supposedly been debating whether to use 256 MB or 512 MB.

    When you're dealing with textures this huge, 256 MB is reasonable, not a crapload.
     
  21. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #21
    "liek ZOMG! M$ suxxors. PS3 will haev teh best!!!11 video and fasterst brian!"

    all im bothered about is good games which puts me in the minority of game players.

    if something as downright amazing as Halo 1 struts its stuff on the Xbox 2 then w00t, ill buy for that game alone (all i bought Xbox 1 for).

    Sony and Microsoft REALLY need mascots though. pretty much every PS2 game winds up on a nintendo machine of some sort nowadays (metal gear, splinter cell, GTA, final fantasy etc...) EDIT: Tekken is theirs.

    whatever Zelda, Metroid and dare i say Mario, Pokemon and Animal Crossing come out for i will buy that machine.
     
  22. saunders45 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    saunders45

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    #22
    But its integrated. The Cpu will still be doing a most of the graphics processing. My moms emachine has an Nvidia geforce 4 mx, integrated. The CPU does all the processing, and it shares the system ram.

    Also, this 4.6GHz number, still speculation. I justt don't buy it. Sounds the same as apple when they said 3 ghz G5 in a year.
     
  23. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #23
    wow. you are flat ignorant about this aren't you?

    :)

    You could have an "integrated" GeForce Ultra 6800 on your motherboard, and it would scream.

    being "integrated" doesn't make it bad by default....it's WHAT has been integrated that matters...and a GeForce 2mx with no dedicated texture memory isn't much to look at.

    I'm not really surprised by the speeds, just that they are possible to achieve in high enough yields that the consoles will not cost 1000 dollars or more.

    As to the developers being told not to worry about framerates, that sounds to me like the developers aren't working on machines that will be as fast as the finished console. OOOR, it could mean that there will be "upgrades" to the console that will provide better performance...For example, something that "enables true 720p support" or something like that. An HD Add-on kit. If the games are written to acknowledge 720p, then you jest need an adapter that goes into a slot/port of some kind...like the PS 2 HD slot. They're already saying that the HD in the xenon will be optional...meaning you can buy one later on as an upgrade...sounds like they are having a tough time getting the price down...
     
  24. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #24
    The system sounds quite impressive. As for the processors, I wouldn't think that the cache or instruction cycles will act as a bottleneck. When an OS is specifically designed for a piece of hardware, it runs MUCH faster than one that is not. Case in point: Apple OSX verses XP. My 700Mhz G4 is more responsive than my AMD Athlon 64-bit 3000+.

    The gfx chip should do amazing things. My gaming PC has an X800 Pro, and it looks phenomenal. I run HL2 at 1280x1024 anti-aliased with high framerates. Go look at some nvidia screen shots of Far Cry with Shader 3.0... Unbelievable.

    The choice to go with DVD instead of HD-DVD or Blu-ray is smart, IMO. One of those formats will become standard. It's kind of silly to choose one now and hope that it wins the media battle. They can always sell USB2.0 add-on drive later, if they want.

    Also, using the HDD as a buffer for game data is a REALLY smart move. I wonder where they got this idea... (Modded Xbox's load games from the HDD about twice as fast as normal games).

    My only gripe is that their's no mention of 802.11a/b/g. This could be a deal breaker. Note to Microsoft personel reading this thread: The only reason I cancelled my Live subscription was the inconvienence on running all that cat-5 cable. My cable modem is in the office, not the living room.

    For those who are interested, here are some early builds of the kind of graphics we can expect from Xenon.
    http://www.microsoft.com/xna/multimedia.aspx
     
  25. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #25
    As long as the integrated card has VRAM, I agree.
     

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