Some thoughts about the Pope's comment

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by KingYaba, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #1
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5351988.stm

    Strait out I think it's ****ing ridiculous that the Pope has to go out and say he's sorry. The Pope should not apologize.

    I really don't think the Christian church should be subservient to Islam. Apologizing gives resolve to these people who go out on the streets and riot. These muslims are overly aggressive and are being rewarded when huge figureheads like the Pope roll over on their backs and apologize. Since when does the Pope need to apologize for a comment that really was not offensive. It wasn't intended to be offensive. These people rioting on the streets obviously misinterpreted what the Pope meant. The Pope owes no apology. It's their fault they think the Pope was being offensive. When in actuality he was not.

    But rather standing his ground, or communicating to people that this was all a misunderstanding, he backs down and says he's sorry.

    Pathetic the way I see it. If someone makes a comment that "offends" muslims, and a few of them go blow up a couple buildings, somehow it's the person who made the "offensive" comments is at fault. Some people are too ***** to go out and speak their mind for fear of offending someone. These thugs who go out and riot in the streets are starting to dictate what people say, and do. I for one am getting very annoyed.

    Just take these Danish cartoons for instance. Heaven forbid they were only making a couple jokes about Islam. Something Iran does with Jews on a daily basis. Suddenly the cartoonist's lives are at risk. It's not these people making threats who are to blame, it's the cartoonists. They where the ones who made fun of "holly" allah and now deserve to die. What did the Danish newspaper do? They gave into the demands, rolled over on their backs, and played dead. Are these muslims so insecure about their religion? Are they that insecure about their beliefs? Can they not take a joke? Aparently not.

    If you were to go out and piss on a statue of jebus, do you think thousands of Christians would go out and riot on the streets? Make threats upon your life? I don't think so. The world is going soft on these militant, overly aggressive muslims, and this is what they want. Stand up for yourself and tell these *******s to shut the **** up.

    end rant

    Yeah, go ahead and flame me for speaking my mind, I'm listening.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    The Pope was being either provocative or foolish, neither of which is in his job description. To quote a Christian emperor characterising 14thC Muslims, the guardians of knowledge and civilization, as violent, shortly before Constantinople itself was laid waste in the Fourth Crusade by Venice, with full Papal backing, is absurd. Infallible? I think not.
    Very probably.
    "The world" is busy bombing, shooting, invading, imprisoning, torturing and occupying them.
     
  3. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #3
    Full Text of The Pope's Speech

    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474

    my eyes glaze over...

    there was a scene in the West Wing a few years back, which went something like "Is it going to take the American flag flying over Mecca to put an end to all of this? And if so, what on earth are we waiting for?"
     
  4. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #4
    While the idea of any Pope lecturing about the history of jihad and it's evils, given the history of the Catholic Church, is ridiculous on the face of it, the idea of the representative of the Muslim Brotherhood saying the Pope didn't go far enough in his apology is so absurd as to be burlesque. I would hope the Pope would take a better look at how he casts his appeals for dialogue between Islam and Christianity. I would also hope no one takes seriously the demands of the Muslim Brotherhood.
     
  5. funkychunkz macrumors 6502a

    funkychunkz

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    #5
    The Pope quoted an ancient text... why shoot the messenger? Many things have changed since then, nations Popes and the Church. If an Imam made a lecture quoting a Islam leader saying that christians don't follow all holly principles, and therefor are damned, or evil doers, we wouldn't be seeing any riots in North America. Taken that the East is culturally different, and more people are religiously active it could be more of a collective outrage fuelled by missenterpretation. What I mean by that is that something might have gotten lost in translation then told around, and whoever was not visibly opposed to this were seen as not understanding their own directives. Not everyone protesting, (who are causing the isue, and applying pressure here is as informed as we might think. (About the history involved, what was said, to whom and in what context etc.)
     
  6. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #6
    Sorry, but as an aside, I have to point out the errors of thought inherent in this comment when related to the current debacle. Popes are not believed to be infallible in deed, but merely in certain specific circumstances in which they proclaim a Church doctrine to be true. I believe papal infallibility has only been invoked twice. This current debacle about the current pope's comments has nothing to do with papal infallibility in any way whatsoever.

    And I also have to point out that the Fourth Crusade went completely against what the pope said. It had no "full papal backing." The pope explicitly declared that no Christian be killed by the Crusaders, but the Venetians convinced them otherwise.

    I'm not making these comments to argue on either side of the current conflict, just pointing out factual errors.
     
  7. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #7
    So you're saying that no institution can ever learn from its mistakes and will always have the same flaws it always has? I think not. If anything, the Catholic Church's history gives them more authority in speaking on the evils of religious warfare, considering they've already been through it.
     
  8. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #8
    ah, the "only the warriors can comment on the war" mentality. The Catholic Church has not learned from its mistakes as recent history has shown. Rwanda, parts of South America, the Polish Catholic Radio station that continues to spew vile, anti-jewish Propaganda, etc, etc. The Pope was really stupid for saying what he did and the Muslim reaction has been blown out of proportion, religion and its leaders, as usual triumph when it comes to stupidity.
     
  9. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    No, that's not what I'm saying. Perhaps the hypocrisy of a Church with the history of the Crusades and the Inquisition lecturing others on religious war and forcible conversion (not really the topic of his speech, but that is how the references to jihad are interpreted) could be tolerated if the Pope had been critical of the Catholic Church's own past. I don't see it in his speech, do you?
     
  10. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #10
    The Pope was an idiot for bring it up..and Muslims who give a rats-behind about it being idiots...both of them GET OVER IT


    I have to say I think the Pope should say sorry because the angry and damage has led to someone dieing.(I thought I read this, can't find the link so perhaps I'm mistaking)

    Either way many world religion over react, and are full of many idiots. I have to say I don't hear many bad things about Buddhist and Hindus, while the other 3 main religions, Islam ,Christianty and Judism, all have more news time(Less so with Judism, but its its up there) Maybe those reilgious leaders need to sit down(with-in each religions) with themselves and talk about how to act with being a bunch of crazy people. Then said some leader to talk about living together with out them killing each others.

    Note-Not all Christains, Muslims or Jews are crazy when it comes to other religions, and I'm sure some Buddhist or Hindus are crazy about other religion.

    Yet not Agnostics or Athiest are involded..maybe the USSR was onto something
     
  11. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    From beatsme's link:

    Perhaps this was a poor (even bone-headed) choice, on the pope's part, of a historical rationale against spreading faith by violence.

    It does, however, give me pause to ponder the dichotomy between the insistence of Muslims that theirs is a religion of peace, vs. the emperor's quotation here that Mohammed advocated spreading the faith via war.

    I do not take one side or the other; I'm too ignorant of Islam to do that. But it does make me wonder to what, specifically, the emperor was referring.

    As for the reaction to the pope's remarks...I find myself growing less and less charitable to those religious opportunists in the Middle East who seem to seek out every opportunity and excuse to raise hell and burn buildings just because they were "offended". Is their faith THAT fragile?

    I tried to be sensitive to their feelings on the Danish cartoon issue, but now I just feel like telling them, "Grow up."

    These fanatics wanna talk about getting offended, they should try participating in an internet forum once in a while. ;)
     
  12. KingYaba thread starter macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #12
    Bull
    -----------------
    How does rioting in the streets emphasize "The Religion of Peace?"
     
  13. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #13

    Come on! All religions have wacko...yours does to, and some do kill, other seem to find joy in killing peoples rights here in what was once the leader of the free world.

    Can you honestly saying the world is doing nothing to stop extremist? I'd say the government of the west are doing a good deal to stop Muslim extremist. Why then are we in Afganistan? And Bush one day thought it would be a good idea to screw up the Middle east a bit more then it currently was so the USA invaded Iraq, which lead to more death.

    I want the man who attacked US, behind bars, not some scapegoat.

    Why shouldn't the Pope say sorry? If some peaceful Muslime leader insulted Christainty, you know that you would want a sorry. Why not just have the Pope let go fo his pride and say sorry, for the greater good?
     
  14. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #14
    lol, if he doesn't mean any of those words, why he even quote them?
     
  15. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #15
    they weren't doing that in mass until 2003, while islam was there for more than 1000 years.
     
  16. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #16

    Right... :rolleyes:

    Islam was just sitting there minding their own business for those 1000 years, never attacking anyone for anything...

    I'm not saying that Christianity's perfect, but that statement was ridiculous.
     
  17. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #17
    He just wasn't thinking of it in those terms. He wasn't thinking about taking the two sides, we were wrong sometimes, they were wrong sometimes. He was taking the one side, religion shouldn't be spread by violence.

    And as for forcible conversion, the Catholic Church have never advocated such a thing, although people have tried to do so in the Church's name. For example, the Inquisition only persecuted those who claimed to be Christians.
     
  18. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #18

    Muslims killed people before 2003, don't kid yourself...but so did Christains, Jews and most other religions.

    Anyone with a religion shouldn't attack Islam as a religion(Like KingYaba did but feel free to be upset with people who kill in the religion), because its like others killed in the name of your religion. (Maybe not Jainism and Buddist but its likely some in the past did)

    Many Muslims don't support the kill of people who did nothing, but some do. This has also been true with Christianty and Judism and other world religions in the past. Its like a Cycle of what religion kills the most, currently Islam is leading the past 15 years.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    As in most holy books, there are many contradictions. Surah 2, 256 reads: There is no compulsion in religion.
     
  20. trainguy77 macrumors 68040

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    #20
    Have we ever put out a request for statements from Muslims to be retracted? Have they ever been retracted....not that I can remember.

    However, there is one book that has none and that is the bible. There has been no proven contradictions. There has been some that people at first think are, but they have been proved that they are not contradictions.
     
  21. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #21
    im not saying they didn't kill ppl, :eek:
    anyway, if christians think they are somehow better than other religion, then they should read more history.
     
  22. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #22
    Wait. Wow. Do you really mean that? You must be joking. The Bible is full of contradictions. How about which day Jesus died. Check John and compare it to the other three Gospels. Yeah, there's a contradiction. One of many.

    I'm a Christian, but to claim that the Bible has no contradictions is ludicrous. The Bible was meant somewhat figuratively, and each author had their own points to emphasize depending on their audience.
     
  23. KingYaba thread starter macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #23
    Security tight for Pope blessing No you think?

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. *******s. :mad: The Pope makes a comment, and suddenly the death threats come. Someone needs to come out and challenge these thugs.
     
  24. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #24

    Its possible it had happen..you(noone) have(has) been around that long when you look at the length of the religion.

    Even if Christains never did, or if it was never retracted so what. I thought a big thing about Christianity was "do on to other as you would have them do on to you" Surely you don't want Muslim talk bad about your religion..right? I'm sure you'd like them to atleast respect it, even if that don't follow it.
     
  25. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #25
    I'm pretty sure you have people doing that...the Pope and Mr. Bush seem to have your back:rolleyes:

    I mean Bush is helping to force Christianity down peoples throats by law here...possible because of upbringing by his father.

     

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