Sony's New PS3 European Mess Up

Discussion in 'Games' started by LukeW, Feb 23, 2007.

  1. LukeW macrumors member

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    #1
    Hi kids! Want a PS3, well, it coming to a European store near you, with a huge mark up on RRP price over what American and Japanese gamers are paying and, guess what, you can now Get LESS for MORE! Thats right, those backward compatible features that will allow you to play your old PS2 back catalogue, kiss those goodbye, or at least at a severely reduced capacity, lets hope you arent the unlucky sod that has the games that wont work, knowing my luck they will probably include Ico and Shadow of the Collossus.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070223/tc_nm/sony_playstation_europe_dc

    Software will take over some of the functionality that was originally taken care of by dedicated chips, which means far fewer PlayStation 2 (PS2) games can be played on a European PS3 compared with the Japanese and American PS3 models which play 98 percent of old games.

    "Sony is managing expectations by saying now that the new console will play fewer of the old games, and that's a good thing," said analyst Alex Kwiatowski at British market research group Vertical Market Technologies.
     
  2. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #2
    Glad I imported.

    So basically we are 1 - only allowing you to buy the more expensive model

    And 2 - we have taken out the ps2 dedicated chips to reduce "our" costs - not yours.

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #3
    Incredible. I thought the bad news train had stopped. Guess not!
     
  4. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

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    #4
    Sounds to me like Sony have whipped out a massive tube of KY for the european gamers :)

    The XBOX 360 looks more enticing by the day... and i won't even be buying either.

    Well maybe a Wii... but that's about it.
     
  5. emotion macrumors 68040

    emotion

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    #5
    I thought Sony may have been able to recover from their initial set backs. Esp. in Europe. Pulling this kind of stunt is just daft at this stage.
     
  6. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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    #6
    They must almost be making a profit on the European PS3's/at least breaking even yeah?
     
  7. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #7
    The things is how many people who are gonig to get one even know about this latest fart in your face ?

    Probably none. This piece of info wont hit the mainstream until AFTER the machine has been released. That's probably why it was only blurted out now.


    Probably not still. They dont expect to make hardware profit for some time, and this cost cutting saving, whilst as a whole is probably quite effective, per individual console basis were probably talking $10-15


    Also as they are now phasing out 20gb in ALL teritories, expect this minor hardware revision to also follow suit.
     
  8. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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  9. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

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    #9
    Unless they made a PCB change i'm guessing the savings is less, probably only $5-10 (or at their conversion rates €7-14)

    They'd probably still charge the high prices though... and it would be quite annoying having a games machine that can't play any game released for it (they are all Blu Ray).
     
  10. bluebomberman macrumors 6502a

    bluebomberman

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    #10
    So they're just going to leave it like that? If it's software, like XBox 360, then conceivably that can be fixed over time, right?
     
  11. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

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    #11
    Yes but with the XBOX 360 every system had this limitation, thus they had to put a lot of resources into getting it right. With this only the European systems are lacking, so why waste a lot of valuable time getting it right. Plus they don't seem to care that much about us, considering we get the console months late and over priced...
     
  12. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #12
    Every week I'm amazed all over again at the level at which Sony takes its customers for granted.

    Ridiculous.
     
  13. thisonechance macrumors regular

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    #13
    Sony, I'd like to thank you once again for giving me yet another reason not to buy a PS3. I have seen few companies go as far to stick it to the consumer as much as Sony has with this product. It is almost a joke at this point (except for those to whom Sony is sticking it).

    Kudos.
     
  14. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #14
    The ridiculous comments were by an analyst and not by Sony. While I don't agree with this move, it's not new news. Sony's said for a while that future versions in America/Japan would have those chips removed to reduce cost, power consumption, and possibly size. I was hoping they wouldn't, because I figured PS3 games could leverage those chips for further parallel processing, but I guess that isn't in the spec.

    http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=12864

    So as another poster said, they're setting expectation with the realization that there will/could be BC issues until the emulator is working perfectly.

    This is old news, people. The question now is are they going to remove these chips in future US/Japan PS3s or just wait until the 65 nm Cells are done and unify on a new manufacturing process then?
     
  15. LukeW thread starter macrumors member

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    #15
    I think the reason people (or me at least anyway) are upset at this is that Sony are deliberately removing features from the European consoles launch (which may or may not follow in future models for America or Japan markets) yet are not only not passing the saving onto the consumer but are actually charging us way more for the privilege of doing so. All consoles get marked up in price for our launches, including the Wii, but in this case it would be like Nintendo removing the Wii’s backward compatibility with the Gamecube games deliberately for our launch despite having been boasting a month or so before that the machine will play 99% of the old games.
    A lot of people are going to be buying the machine to play their old PS2 games and are not going to be aware of just how intentionally crippled the machine is going to be now. That said I really do hope they decide to spend time updating the emulation software but considering how lax Sony have been at fixing problems, I sadly doubt it. Sony have snuck this news our the door a few weeks before the consoles launch so when people get this home and find they cant play their old games they will be able to say that it was announced before so tough luck, which frankly stinks a little.
     
  16. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Supply and demand. If nobody buys the PS3, then they'll drop the price. Organize a boycott. They aren't "removing features" at all. They're moving in the direction they said they would. If anything, you have the "newest model" over there.

    We may hear an announcement soon that they do the same thing for our PS3s here starting in March.
     
  17. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #17
    Yes, Europe, you should be honored to be receiving the first of these new 'Streamlined' machines. And you're only paying an 80% premium for it! Praise Sony.
     
  18. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #18
    The point is that Sony feels the Europeans will pay their price. They control the supply. If Sony is wrong, then they will have to increase demand. This can be done with incentives (free games, etc) or by lowering the price.

    Does it suck they're doing this? Yep. Will they get away with it? Yep. Like MRU was saying games and systems have always been a rip-off in Europe. Maybe if they abandoned socialism somebody might develop a product for a market I'm sure is there for a European made video game console and then they'd compete on the world stage. As it stands right now it seems the only game development in Europe comes from when Microsoft or Sony hire a studio that happens to be located over there.

    On a separate note, the more I think about it, the more I doubt that Sony will manufacture a different console just for the European market. I'll bet dollars to donuts they announce the same thing for future consoles made in the US and Japan before the European launch date.

    Anyone care to conjecture?

    On another side note, Trusty Bell (Eternal Sonata in the USA) has me looking at a 360 seriously for the first time. I'm a huge fan of Namco RPGs. However, I used to also be a huge fan of Square RPGs and Crystal Chronicles and Legend of Mana were two games that let me down. (As has the FF series since 7 and on.)
     
  19. Piarco macrumors 68030

    Piarco

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    #19
    I understand what you are saying re: supply and demand, and you're correct. If the consumers still buy, then Sony doesn't really care. However, this little nugget isn't exactly widely known, and I doubt that the folks in Game etc are informing their purchased that this is now the case with the European models.

    The fact that this "streamlined" (nice spin on a negative situation) model is being inflicted first on Europe. Are you surprised that Europe feels like Sony's whipping boy? Delays and more expense... for less.

    Sony should have released the downgraded console globally after a period of bedding down. You really do have to wonder who makes these decisions... and the poor PR folks who have to deal with the fallout...
     
  20. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    And I said nothing about whether or not they were going to get away with it or whether or not there was some sort of fiscal reasoning behind it, simply that it displays an incredible sense of arrogance. I have not seen another company that takes its customers for granted to the degree that Sony does. And I'm getting to the point where I hope it seriously bites them in the ass.
     
  21. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #21
    Every company does this, MS did it with the 360 only i believe it backfired a lot worse than this and they are still recovering from it.

    It's called lessening their loss, right now they are taking a huge loss on the systems, for every component they remove and virtualize (PS2/1 Support) or as the prices of the components go down it lessens the time before they start profiting. Once thats happens its a good thing for consumers, thats when you usually will see a price drop. This isnt a negative thing if you look at the big picture, it just happens to be something that the people on this board can spin in to a "oh nooz Sony is teh doom3d!!!"

    Ed
     
  22. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #22
    That isn't at all what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that crippling an advertised feature AFTER the release of the console elsewhere in the world, in addition to charging considerably more for it, is very poor customer relations. This is the sort of cost cutting they should have been considering a year ago, when the system was still in its design stages. It's poor form to make such blatantly desperate moves at the expense of the market who is paying the most in the world in the first place, *after* both of the other major world markets have received a product with those features intact.

    It's just another in a long line of stumbles the company has made with the PS3, that's all.
     
  23. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #23
    Oh wait, backwards compatability was the primary reason for me wanting a PS3 so I could play the godlike PS1 games and the PS2 games I missed out on.
     
  24. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #24
    How is "streamlined" negative spin? The fact is, that will be the basis of the new PS3. My PS3 is now the older not even a year after its release. Is this supposed to make me happy? If anything I'm saying being in my position is just as bad, but who cares? The functionality will ultimately be the same... and in fact, these newer models running an emulator can upscale and AA the PS2 games to make them look even better! If Sony chooses to do this, then how many people with my model are going to be jealous/upset? Unless of course Sony lets us run the emu, too.

    Europe gets the delays and the higher cost because there's no other competition. Not to mention all your taxes and stuff. Sony's probably charging more as insurance when the EU fines start coming. :rolleyes:
     
  25. LukeW thread starter macrumors member

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    #25
    If I remember right, one of features Sony was boasting about was the fact that the PS3 would be backwardly compatible with both PS2 and PS1 games. If they dont have that feature and didnt announce its presence, then fine, but they where boasting about it openly. US and Japanese models where released with it built into the units, and while it was rather crappy emulation at first, eventually Sony (I think) released a patch to correct it. The European units wont just have crappy emulation, there is a good chance that a load of games arent going to work at all now. How is this positive except for Sony? I feel this wont be just a European issue to begin with, they are probably going to release future models with this new 'streamlined' configuration but I wonder how people will react when they buy a new PS3 only to realise it wont be able to do half the old games that their friends older system will? Customers dont take kindly to companies removing features by stealth. The only way it will work is if they get the software emulation to work well, in which case all the better, but until then there is going to be a lot of people unhappy when in March they find out their PS3's arent going to be playing the games they where expecting it would. I personally wont be getting a system until they fix the emulation to play all the games that I own for the PS2, plus they could probably lower the price a little too, I dont see why I should have to pay a huge markup just because of where I live, even with any additional taxes Sony have to pay, they are still making more out of me that someone exactly the same in America or even more than someone in Japan. Is it illegal? Nope! Does it make good business sense? Yep. But that don't mean it's a okay thing to do. Just cause you can doesnt mean you should!
     

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