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Speculation: 2013 Haswell - Is this the next big thing for the Air?
- Thread starter MathiasVH
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With a rumored +50% increase in performance on the Haswell integrated graphics, I doubt that an nvidia chip will ever be put in an MBA again.
As Haswell is going to blow Ivy Bridge's HD4000 out of the water, I don't see the need for a Nvidia discrete GPU. Have you looked at the TDP of Nvidia's GPU's? The ones only slightly faster than the HD4000 already burn up almost as much juice as the CPU. That's NOT going to help your MBA's battery life. Furthermore, Nvidia JUST released their first true 28nm GPU's. It's going to take a couple of GPU generations before Nvidia releases a new GPU on a smaller process which is required for a significant drop in power consumption.
Perhaps - but isn't it likely that at some point the engineering guru's will figure out how to make an enclosure that still feels substantial but at less weight?
That - or I am simply going to have to drag myself to the gym more often!
Regarding Retina there's a reason why Foxconn and Apple are attempting to invest in Sharp's IGZO technology. It delivers the power savings and high resolution necessary.
The Retina iPad has a dual light-bar which contributes to cost and increased ambient heat. I suspect Apple will migrate to IGZO based iPad displays that eschew the need for dual light-bars reducing cost, weight and power consumption.
I'm figuring the display needs to be about 25% more efficient to break even. Apple's batteries in the Retina MBP are about 22% larger. You figure that they saved some power moving to SSD but that majority of that chasm is the Retina display.
http://www.semiconportal.com/en/archive/news/main-news/120420-sharp-igzo-tech.html
seminconportal said:
More than enough savings to take more of the Mac lineup to Retina without the need for putting in huge batteries.
Those savings sound good, but I wouldn't give up color gamut and other criteria until the tech was ready to match the Samsung display on my rMBP.
Haswell will be a good think, of course it will.
But I don't trust intel promises, normally the fail.... it's every year the same cycle
"Its going to be wonderful, N times better"
...
"continues wonderful, but we are having some problems"...
"Well, we have some delays...."
"There it is! Not N times faster, but very good"
real tests:
"well, it has some improvements, but in some aspects is hard to distingue any difference from last year model"
Year after year is this what happens on Intel products.
But I don't trust intel promises, normally the fail.... it's every year the same cycle
"Its going to be wonderful, N times better"
...
"continues wonderful, but we are having some problems"...
"Well, we have some delays...."
"There it is! Not N times faster, but very good"
real tests:
"well, it has some improvements, but in some aspects is hard to distingue any difference from last year model"
Year after year is this what happens on Intel products.
QFT, lately their IGPs have made serious strides. Then again, it's easy to make improvements when you're starting from rock bottom.
Next big thing? Nope, those days are over.
And that's not a bad thing.
It's all incremental from here and that's the best way to go.
Refine, refine, refine.
Maybe, maybe not. I mean if history has taught us anything its that there will be some breakthrough technology that makes everything we know now look like its moving at a snails pace.
Yes anything is possible.
It's just that Apple backed down refusing to go to a 4.5" display because it would be too much for the developers. In the past Apple wouldn't cater to any outside influence.
My own thoughts:
CPU-speed: Not a huge leap forward. My guess is 10-15% improvement - I think Apple will do anything they can in regards to battery life and maybe down-prioritize CPU-performance a bit.
GPU-speed: Radically increase. Intel has talked about major leaps. My guess: 60% faster graphics.
SSD-speed: Bumped from 500 to 600-650MBps read. Not a lot.
Temperature: Inspired by the rMBP? Is there enough room for new kinda vents/asymmetrical fan?
Hours/Charge: Big, big, big one. Current MBA is just under 7 hours. I think Haswell will be at least 9 hours/charge.
Screen: Unfortunately, I think the screen will remain the same. No rMBP. I think the 13 MBP will get retina, and if the MBA follows, they will overlap too much into each other's segments.
Design: The same. Nothing spectacular (certainly not a redesign)
I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts, and if you think I'm wrong (I most possibly am
Haswell will be more than just a spec bump. It will feature a whole new architecture. Cpu will increase more than 10 percent to be sure. Probably similar to Arrendale to Sandybridge would be a good indication. GPU will increase drastically. The new parts will be 15W, and performance per watt will increase. No reason to downclock the CPU. That will never happen.
You will probably see Haswell Macbook Airs produce between 8000 give or take on geekbench for the i5 version and 9000 to the i7 version. Which are sick numbers for a ULV part.
On par with Arrandale to sandybridge performance differences. Site the Macbook Pro's 2011's to the Macbook Pro's 2010 models for reference. There was no 2010 model Arrandale Macbook Air.
For comparison a Arrandale 2010 i7 macbook pro 2.67 had a geekbench score of around 5600. A 2011 Macbook Air with a i7 1.8 has a score of around 6400. Now that is a difference between a ULV part and a non ULV part. Compare that to the i7 sandybridge dual core part from 2011 from a 13 Mac book pro with a score of around 7000. That is the difference you can see with a intel 'tock'.
All are dual core parts. A 2012 Air i7 2.0 which is a tick in the CPU dept has a geekbench score of around 7000. A difference of around 600pts. All are dual core parts and 32 bit tests. The 64 bit test the score is around 7800.
The GPU dept will bring mid range graphics from intel. Which is a good thing. HD 4000 is already decent. HD 5000 will be 'good'. around 60 percent better. The CPU should be around 20 to 30 percent better.
IPS display non-retina should be on hand as display ips panels are fairly cheap now. No reason not to include them. My guess they will do that(IPS from TN) without announcing it next refresh.
The 2012 Airs already have the same design fan(asymmetrical) as in the Retina.
SSD is good as it is. Apple is conservative on it's SSD's. More concerned about reliability than performance.
HD4000 is a huge jump from HD3000.
HD4000 can compete with low end cards. HD5000 should be able to compete with some mid-range cards.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmarked.73567.0.html
Last edited:
Haswell will provide 24 Hours battery life on a Macbook Air. The CPU tech usses 20 times less power compared to ivy bridge.
I have spoken to an Intel sales rep who has confirmed this
I have spoken to an Intel sales rep who has confirmed this
My own thoughts:
CPU-speed: Not a huge leap forward. My guess is 10-15% improvement - I think Apple will do anything they can in regards to battery life and maybe down-prioritize CPU-performance a bit.
GPU-speed: Radically increase. Intel has talked about major leaps. My guess: 60% faster graphics.
SSD-speed: Bumped from 500 to 600-650MBps read. Not a lot.
Temperature: Inspired by the rMBP? Is there enough room for new kinda vents/asymmetrical fan?
Hours/Charge: Big, big, big one. Current MBA is just under 7 hours. I think Haswell will be at least 9 hours/charge.
Screen: Unfortunately, I think the screen will remain the same. No rMBP. I think the 13 MBP will get retina, and if the MBA follows, they will overlap too much into each other's segments.
Design: The same. Nothing spectacular (certainly not a redesign)
I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts, and if you think I'm wrong (I most possibly am
Haswell will NOT increase the battery life anymore than 1 hour MAX unless Apple increases the size of the battery or does other things to make the computer as a whole more efficient.
I doubt that Apple will use an ARM chip in any of their computers unless it's 64-bit. Apple is pushing the 64-bit parts of OS X rigorously. In fact, new projects in Xcode default to 64-bit only. Having a computer laptop based on the A5, which is a 32-bit processor, would be a step back instead of a step forward. Apple rarely steps back.
I want to hold out for haswell so badly, but realistically, I'm guessing we'll have to wait until June to actually get these in our hands. I do some work with realtime graphics (quartz composer) and would love to get that new iGPU in haswell, but might have to jump on the H4000 for now..
I checked out some benchmarks with the gpus, it looks like the current 2012 Air can match the gpu power of my 2010 15" mbp (330M 512mb). So I can live with that, but it would be great to get an increase in performance - but I'll take portability over that.
I'm going to wait and see what they do with the mbp 13". if they get a dGPU in there I'm gonna grab that, otherwise I'm getting the 2012 Air. And although I like to wait 2-3 years for an upgrade, i might just take the hit and sell the 2012 Air when haswell is released.
/end thoughts
I checked out some benchmarks with the gpus, it looks like the current 2012 Air can match the gpu power of my 2010 15" mbp (330M 512mb). So I can live with that, but it would be great to get an increase in performance - but I'll take portability over that.
I'm going to wait and see what they do with the mbp 13". if they get a dGPU in there I'm gonna grab that, otherwise I'm getting the 2012 Air. And although I like to wait 2-3 years for an upgrade, i might just take the hit and sell the 2012 Air when haswell is released.
/end thoughts
i love to read about people who know nothing about technology try and talk about technology. Makes for an entertaining read.
read up a little more on Haswell. So currently intel is projecting a release between April - Sept. How long does it ususally take apple to get these chips and implement them into the macbooks? Could we be possibly waiting a full year before seeing these in the macbook air?
Do you plan on contributing something, or are you just trying to be an ******* today?
You need to understand the difference between a RISC CPU and a x86 CPU. You cant run one OS native on both. They both have to be programmed from the ground up. You can make one look like the other but the apps for one wont work on the other.
OSX is an x86 based OS. It wont run on an ARM CPU.
You would need to use iOS and iOS would make it iPad with a keyboard and it would suck.