Spinoff, PC seems to be more intuitive for "low end" users

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by Caddy, May 25, 2003.

  1. Caddy macrumors member

    Mar 13, 2003
    After reading "I hate myself" and reading your harsh comments, I felt particuarly compelled to share my "less than best" Mac experience. My argument is simple: if you are not a tech-savy person, a Mac may not be superior in all cases. I don't understand why is everyone being so hard on her. I can't comment on whether or not a Mac is better than a PC when you get into gaming, etc, I don't do any of that.

    I admit, I am not very tech-savy. I use my computer as a word processor, and I do engage in light web surfing. I can honestly say that for low-end users (meaning people who aren't doing all the tech-heavy things to which you people have alluded), I believe PC's are better. I am a case in point. I LOVED the way Mac's look (powerbooks, not real keen on the white line, it looks kind of plasticy). I had a Dell Inspiron 2650, there was nothing ostensibly wrong with it, I just had the Mac itch. My husband is a life-long Mac user. He has had every single laptop and he currently has the 15 inch powerbook. Anyway, I used some technical fonts for my writing and I know these are readily available on Macs. I was kinda bored with my Dell (okay I will admit it) and yes, aesthetcis are important to me, so I went out and bought the powerbook 12in. The whole 2 weeks were basically just an exercise in sophistry (trying to convince myself it was better than a PC).

    Now, before you flame, I should stress, better for *me* not necessarily people who do tech-heavy stuff. I would always find an excuse to keep it! When the word processing wasn't going right (there was the spinning beach ball every two seconds, delay while typing) I quickly downloaded the upgrades which helped a bit, but the problem wasn't completely solved. I word process quite a bit, so it was more than a slight "inconvenience." Another MAJOR problem for me (which was the problem that sent me running back) was the fact that Mac does not have a double mouse (I don't know the technical term) . This was a really big minus for me. I cut and put so much while writing. My husband, who refuses to see any flaws in Mac would tell me that I needed to learn how to use cntrl P and cntrol X what have you. I don't find this as convenient, you have to highlight with the mouse and then come back and use the keys to do your cut and paste?? It is counter intuitive as far as I am concerned.

    I also like to flip back and forth from MS word to my window on the bottom where my online thesauras is accessible right away (again MS word is not comprehensive enough for me, I need more word choices). I didn't like on Mac having to go down to the dock, search for the little pic of my thesauras, etc.

    Still, despite this, I convinced myself that the Mac was better and tried to accept its faults. I also found it pretty slow, comparatively speaking. I was writing my thesis at the time and the word processing problems just began to take their toll. Finally I said "Cathy admit it, this computer IS NOT for you." After I admitted that to myself, I felt much better, and yes I did switch back to a Dell. It wasn't as "pretty" by far, but I can't tell you, I was so glad to go back, I felt like a fish out of water during those two weeks. I even took a 10 percent restocking fee. I used my Dell for a few weeks, but I really wanted something different, so I bought a new Sony Vaio yesterday which I like (and its silver).

    Anyway, my bottom-line is, I really think when you use the computer for 'very basic' tasks such as word processing and light surfing that the PC may have an edge. It is cheaper and I would argue just as reliable. For me, however, I found the PC to be far more conducive to my needs.

    Any thoughts or arguments?
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    The fact that Apple does not utilize a two-button mouse is unbelievable. You can buy a 2 button (I have a Logitech and I love it) That is a very valid complaint and we all hear you.

    Word isn't the greatest program available and seems to be inherently buggy at least from my experience on Wintels. I rarely run into the spinning beach ball of death and only have a G3 400 Mhz and use Apple Works. I honestly think the problem is Word in general and not the Apple platform.

    The dock issue is one more of usage I think. I keep only my most used programs in the dock and everything else in "favorites" That makes the dock icons larger, I too, hate the smallness when there are too many items there. I find the dock to be more convenient than Windows overall, although it did take some getting used to.

    PeeCees are cheaper. They are also more prone to crashing and less friendly for non-techies. In the 7 months that I have had OS X, it has never crashed, and I use my computer a lot for a variety of tasks. I am no computer geek by any means but having used PeeCees at work I really think that Macs are a better machine and much more intuitive.

    In the end, if all you're going to use your computer for is word processing and web surfing, then it really doesn't matter which platform you use. If you feel more comfortable using a PC then, that is what you should use. Of course, now you are not one of the chosen ;)

    You will miss out on a higher resale value and macs tend to have a longer life than PCs. This is the year of the laptop for Apple and at the end of June it is anticipated that Apple is going to announce major changes. Hopefully one of them will be the speed issue and hopefully when macs are upgraded you'll try them once again and grow to love them like the rest of us here!

    Good Luck with your Vaio, they are cool looking.
  3. Stelliform macrumors 68000


    Oct 21, 2002
    Re: Spinoff, PC seems to be more intuitive for "low end" users

    This is caused by the sound drivers going to sleep. There is an app called "Keep sound awake" that a lot of people say fixed their problem.

    I use an external mouse with two buttons. I never use the touch pads on my Dells long anyway. And often I find I have to use two hands to click and select on a touch pad anyway.

    Can't help you there, you have to adapt at some point. I just use the window drop down menu to switch between multiple windows in a program.

    That is the crux of the problem. You cannot delude yourself that switching is painless. I switched and I really didn't feel totally comfortable until 4 months later. Now that I am comfortable with the environment I enjoy the perks of no crashing, (Except in Word) and the instant awake.

    I will agree with you on the initial cost of the the PC being really appealing on the front end, however of my clients that just do word processing, compared to Macs that just do word processing.... My bills to the PC users are close to 4 times those of the Mac users. (I fix computers) The PC's really do break down that more often, even when you just word process.

    Just my experience....

    (And Safari has Spell check built in for checking posts... Gotta love it. ;))
  4. macktheknife macrumors 6502a


    Jan 24, 2002
    Re: Spinoff, PC seems to be more intuitive for "low end" users

    For most people who simply surf the net, do a few e-mails, and write a few documents, a generic $500 PC will do just fine. As for your Mac is better for those who are tech-savy, I would agree but with some reservations. I think to truly appreciate OS X's technical underpinnings, you must use or be willing to use Unix and other development tools OS X offers. However, people who do lots of digital imaging and video editing who are not tech-savy could benefit from using OS X too in many cases.

    I would agree with your comment. One of the features I do like about Windows is the one-to-one relationship of windows and the taskbar. For example, if you open an Excel spreadsheet, a Word document, and a webpage in IE, each of the windows would be represented on the taskbar. It does not matter what the program the window belongs to: all that matters is what window the user wants to use.

    IMO, OS X unnecessarily forces the user to raise the level of abstraction in finding the windows he or she is working on. Let's say you are doing the same things I previously described for the PC (open an Excel spreadsheet, a Word document, and a webpage in IE), none of the windows will be represented on the dock. If the window is overlapping another, the user will need to first identify the program he or she is working on. And if the program is running multiple windows and the windows are still overlapping, the user will have to move up to the menu above to select the proper window.

    Another strange feature of OS X that I do not like is how minimized windows are handled by the dock. If you have two windows open and you minimize them, they will be represented on the right side of the dock like the following:

    A B

    Assume you maximize window A and minimize it again. The minimized windows now follow this order:

    B A

    because OS X moves the minimized window on the right one space to the left. If the user wants window B and is unaware of the window move, he or she will probably click on the wrong window because the mind associates the minimized window with its position on the dock.
  5. Caddy thread starter macrumors member

    Mar 13, 2003
    Thanks for the comments. I thought I would get totally flamed and maybe I still will!

    Anyway, tend to agree that Mac is better for tech-heavy people. My husband does a ton of that stuff and I know he is better off with a Mac. Just from reading how happy switchers are, I know it to be true. I did get an external mouse too, but I really use my laptop in the literal sense. I sit on my chaise/ottoman type thing and write for hours on end with my computer in my lap. It would be very cumbersome to use a mouse. When I returned it, I just couldn't believe I was returning a computer for something as simple as the mouse, but when I got back to the double sided mouse, I was so happy.

    Anyway, has Apple addressed this issue? It just seems so crazy to me!
  6. Caddy thread starter macrumors member

    Mar 13, 2003
    Quote (see don't even know how to quote)

    For most people who simply surf the net, do a few e-mails, and write a few documents, a generic $500 PC will do just fine. As for your Mac is better for those who are tech-savy, I would agree but with some reservations. I think to truly appreciate OS X's technical underpinnings, you must use or be willing to use Unix and other development tools OS X offers. However, people who do lots of digital imaging and video editing who are not tech-savy could benefit from using OS X too in many cases.

    I couldn't agree more. I got my Powerbook a bit after my sister in law got her ibook. She was happy for me and said "Yeah, I heard your got a really nice one, it is even better than the powerbook"

    At that point I told her that for her or I (both do light web surfing and papers) that we could be using PI's and have the same experience. Not sure if this is completely accuarate, but I am pretty sure this is close to being the case.
  7. macktheknife macrumors 6502a


    Jan 24, 2002
    Yes, it is truly sad, isn't? Some people on this thread love to share a lot of colorful language and spew the most vicious vitriol. Why? Because some other people don't think Macs are the greatest computers and have differing opinions. This is the one "dark side" of the Mac community I have come to detest: the utter inability to weigh the criticism of their beloved machines and the propensity to flame those who dissent.

    In any event, I am a "switcher" who plans to switch back soon. OS X is great for my programming needs, but I have other computing needs I want to address (speed, price, games, etc.). I think that an individual should just use whatever computer suits his or her needs. Keep an open mind and consider the alternatives, but don't let others tell you what's the best. I've tried using a Mac for the last year and half, and I am less than completely satisfied with the experience. I am glad I tried it as I will always have a point of comparison (instead of always wondering what could have been), but I am not sorry to go back.

    I am happy to see that you have made your own independent decision. :)
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Caddy, I think some of your troubles might be because you just weren't used to or familiar w/the Mac and you became frusterated w/it. I consider myself a middle of the road techno geek (I build my own PCs and such) and I was one frusterated guy when I bought my first Mac little more than a year ago. I went from knowing my way around Windows to not even knowing how to uninstall a program on my G4. :( It took me a couple of months of using my Mac to start to feel comfortable in it and to feel like I knew my way around. And it just got better from there. I originally bought the Mac just for video editing and even though I still have my baby (a win2k box I built a coupla years ago) I found myself using my G4 more and more. I'm now saving up for a Mac laptop to replace my win2k box as my "every day tasks" computer.

    Recently I talked my parents into a new iMac to replace thier old PC and they love it so far. But there are so computer illiterate that they really don't have to "unlearn" windows they just have to learn OS X. so the switch for them has been very, very smooth.

    And, like others have said, each platform has its pro's and con's and you should pick the one that works best for you. I just think if you woulda given yourself more time to become familiar w/the Mac you would have enjoyed owning one. :)

  9. gbojim macrumors 6502

    Jan 30, 2002
    And that's the key. I would not really describe Caddy as a novice user. I have taught a lot of courses to beginners on both Mac and Windows and the Mac is hands down more intuitive. Try to teach someone who has never used a computer before when to click the left vs. right button. Or the many different ways to close a file.

    Something some of you might find interesting is that I have a 2 button mouse on my PBook and a 1 button mouse on my PMac. The 2 button on the PBook is because I wanted something wireless meaning it will have at least 2 buttons. I find that I'm just as fast control clicking with the 1 button as I am right clicking with the 2 button. It's just a matter of experience - which I happend to have with both. Caddy obviously has experience with the 2 button so the other way seems more difficult.

    Agreed on the sound system being powered down to save power. I wish there was a switch in the power preferences to turn that off. It drove me nuts until I found the app to keep the sound powered up.

    I don't understand about switching between apps. To me, clicking a dock icon or selecting a window from the taskbar is pretty much the same. What I have a tendency to do is keep both apps on the screen and Command-Tab between them like you can Alt-Tab between apps on Windows.
  10. beatle888 macrumors 68000


    Feb 3, 2002
    im sorry but most of the complaints you have about the mac are simply you not knowing even the basics of having a computer. for instance, your complaining about a mouse when you have a laptop. if you are going to use a mouse with your laptop you dont have to use apples. you can get yourself a two button, four button or five button mouse. so that problem is solved. as far as the spinning beach ball. um i have a 667 mhz ti and that doesnt happen to me. i type along just fine. try the fixes with the "keep sound awake" app that you can find at http://versiontracker.com . and as far as switching to your thesaurus app, try Command + Tab to switch between open applications. also the spinning beach ball might be because of ram, i have 512mb of ram. its sad to see you become discouraged by some really simple issues. all of the problems you list are easily resolved. the mouse complaint alone made me shake my head cause i knew how easy it was to fix. if you had a PC laptop wouldnt you still have to buy an external mouse? you dont have to use the apple mouse. there are plenty to choose from.

    as far as the mac not being for casual computer users...this is a strange statement and an earlier response said it best. casual computer use can be handled just fine on either platform. i dont do any "tech savy" tasks on my mac. i stick to my graphics applications.

    anyway, glad you like your pc, just one question. if you switch BACK then why do you still come here? i know that sounds mean but why? im just curious.

    i dont consider this a flame, you spoke freely and im doing the same. im not atacking you. i just think your reasons are based on a lack of understanding of even the basics. for example the mouse comment and the switching apps comment. if your typing, your hands are already on the keyboard so why not just do a Command (the little apple key) + Tab?
  11. Caddy thread starter macrumors member

    Mar 13, 2003
    I actually come here because I think the people are informative and have much information. Does that "admission" somehow incriminate me? I have no problems admitting I like the people here. I actually didn't come for quit a while because I was busy and then when I had a question about my Sony and many of the people here have former experience with PC's.

    About the mouse, I guess you really didn't read my comments. A PC has a two button mouse ON THE LAPTOP ITSELF, whereas this is not an option on the Mac. Again, as I said on another reply, I type while sitting down. I write a lot so this was more than a minor inconvenience for me.

    Still don't understand, though, why it would matter to you "why I still come here." That comments sounds a bit juevenile to me, as if whoever is "right" is the winner or something.
  12. beatle888 macrumors 68000


    Feb 3, 2002
    it sounds juvenile? oh ok.

    anyway to answer your question, i was curious because the people here usually are talking about a product that you dont care for. again i feel i need to restate that i wasnt attacking you with my original post. if asking why you come to a mac forum when your not a fan of the mac is juvenile, well then i must be young at heart.

  13. solvs macrumors 603


    Jun 25, 2002
    LaLaLand, CA
    Quote button, lower right hand corner. ;)

    Trying also not to be rude. I agree that some people may like Windows (whatever version), some MacOS (9,X, whatever), or Linux, etc. Some learn on one and can't get another. Some struggle with one and shine on the other. That's the beauty of the variety of life. But I consider myself cross-platform, and have found quite the opposite in my experience.

    OS 9 especially seemed very intuitive to a the Mother of a friend of mine. She had barely used Windows, and struggled at first, but caught on pretty quickly one she got going. She could never use her daughters PCs. Try explaining drivers and DLLs and BSODs to her. I keep telling my Step-Mom to get a Mac, because she always has problems with her Dell, but she won't (and has no real reason, she just won't). My Mom wanted to get a Mac, she has a bunch at the school she works, but my Step-Dad didn't. So they got a WinXP Sony. Guess who they always call to fix it when it invariable has a problem? They have a Powerbook, and their next PC will be a Mac.

    I could go on, but you get the idea. I'm sure there are a few people out there with the opposite experiences. How many of us know people who hate Windows, but won't use a Mac because of something they heard, or they think it doesn't do something, or because they used OS 8 or 9 (yeah cuz Win9x was so great).

    But to agree with beatle888, all of those point you made could have been made moot. Buy a $20 mouse (which you'd have to anyway with most Laptops). You usually get more RAM anyway when you buy from an online or catalog retailer, or can buy it build to order. Sure, Apple should add more RAM anyway, but how much RAM do you really get with those $500 PCs? Apples could be cheaper, but would we really want them to be "cheaper"? Besides, look at all you get with them. I personnally think Apples are the best computers for novices, and I can see why other's may disagree, but you probably should have stuck it out for awhile.

    And just like when you buy a car, you have to take care of a computer. Novice or not, you have to fix things, add things, get check-ups, etc.

    Just out of curiousity, what kind-of battery life do you get?
  14. 8thDegreeSavage macrumors 6502

    Jun 5, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada

    Im not sure i was reading this right, in one breath you say you dont use the mouse during regular use(you sit in your chaise ottoman thing and its cumbersome), then in the next breath you say you returned your computer for mainly this reason?

    Oh correction...I see your post after.
  15. medea macrumors 68030


    Aug 4, 2002
    Madison, Wi
    sorry but for all the reasons one might be able to give on why windows and pc's are better than mac's intuition is not one of them, windows is much more technical and less intuitive than the mac os, if you took a person brand new to computers and set them in front of a mac and a pc I'm quite positive they would have an easier time using the mac.
  16. Raiwong macrumors member

    Apr 7, 2003
    Interestingly in fact I tend to think that PCs are for the techsavy people. Not only are they faster in graphics and more compatabile with everything else. Crude and technical would be my word for PCs. However PCs are for everyone, they can do everything from simple to harcore while macs are on the other side.

    You make many good points, I think we are on the same side. The primary advantage of macs are that they are very attractive machines and carry attractive OS. I use Microsoft Office on my iBook alot too and yes it lags. Office lags on my 800mhz system....

    Yes I know somebody is going to flame that my iBook is slow and I just needed a faster system, but I did pay a decent amount for an iBook and word proccesing to be sluggish on my computer is simply not acceptable. Like you I hate admiting that my mac is not good at normal work, but unlike you I could not bear to chuck this laptop away.

    I have however gotten used to the slowness of OS X, and I now believe for you to understand it is because for windows. The window loads without the content loading, on macs the contents loads before the window opens, which is why the clicking appears slower.

    Generalising that macs are for tech savy people is interesting, as I think there is no line. Both tech savy and simple users use macs. I think it is much to personal preference, and in your case you prefer to have a 2 mouse button. I can't agree more that copy and past is indeed more annoying in OS X.

    To the other people, I think it is fair to say that some people can't adapt easily given even months and yes some people don't like to use an external mouse, because you would need a table, why not a DESKtop then.

    We need to accept that people are grown and born with windows nowadays, its hard for most people to switch to an alien environment where all their software doesn't work the same way or won't work.

    To me macs is simple unacceptable preformance for the price. Its like buying a very cute porsche that goes as fast as a ford.

    I do question the aim of your post, you are more likely to gain friendly "yeah **** macs" in other forums. Posting in forums like this spells certain flaming as you put it.

    Just so you know I know exatcly how you feel.
  17. losfp macrumors regular

    Jul 16, 2002
    Well, I've been a mac user for about 2.5 months now, and loving it. I have been a PC user since I was probably 8 or 9 (I'm 25 now). I think the main problem with the original poster is not that they are a complete novice, far from it. If you get used to one system, it is much harder to switch to a different way of doing things. It wasn't too bad for me, as I have been hopping around different OSs and configurations etc for ages. Take a complete beginner, and I reckon they would warm to the mac a lot more than the PC.

    Re: the mouse buttons etc... I was certain that I would hate the PBs one mouse button. You know what? After a couple of weeks, I don't even notice it (mind you, when I'm seated at a desk, I still have my 5-button optical mouse plugged in, full-sized heyboard etc.). When your hands are on the keyboard, it's easy to ctrl-click your way around. One thing which I think is actually pretty clever in macs is the way OS X encourages you to use keyboard shortcuts. Once I learnt them, I can work a LOT quicker.. In most of the programs I use, I tend to hide most of the toolbars anyway. I've never used the right-click menu to copy and paste, keyboard shortcuts were always quicker to me.. The difference between:

    1) highlight text. press ctrl-C (or cmd-C)
    2) highlight text. press right mouse button. move mouse down to copy. left click mouse.

    Most keyboard shortcuts can be wrangled with your left hand and mouse operations with your right. If I'm using just the right hand it feels like I'm not reaching full productivity or something silly :D

    Caddy, you say you stuck it out for two weeks. I'm sorry it didn't work out, but IMHO 2 weeks isn't enough to switch over, especially if you're not technically inclined and you have been using a different system for a long time before that. It took me 3-4 weeks to really get going, and that's with me using it for hours each day and tinkering with it because I AM technically minded and interested in things like that. Basically as I said above, the problem is NOT that you are not tech savvy. You just wanted something familiar - and yes, you wanted it to behave like windows because that's what you're used to.

    Nothing wrong with that in the end - the computer is a tool, and if it's getting in your way, get something that will allow you to work. (your loss ;) )
  18. Schiffi macrumors 6502a


    May 22, 2003
    Most of the problems she listed anyway sound like problems with PC habits conficting with Mac ways. I'm sure a Mac user who had never used a PC will have equal difficulty using a PC. Personally I hope Apple never goes to 2-button mice. I have a slight nevous tick that cause me to right-click with PC mice when I don't want it to. When I switched I also had difficulty using the Cmd+c copy method; I wanted to press Ctrl+C! There are smiliar PC keystrokes, but Microsoft doesn't implement them as much as Apple does.

    Note: I still go to PC forums that I joined a while ago even though I started using the Mac.
  19. Datazoid macrumors regular

    May 10, 2002
    I apologize in advance if the following is offensive, I'm only trying to communicate my opinion...

    I think this is, as previous posters have said, much less about "PC's being more intuitive" and more about an inability to unlearn old habits. I have rarely, if ever, missed the two button mouse (the only time I use a contextual menu is to open a new browser window/tab from a link, which is all I used it for on the PC as well, for the most part). I have always found Keyboard shortcuts to be quicker. However, that is a point that could be argued to death. I do not see how keyboard shortcuts involve "moving a hand back to the keyboard", though, as, at least, when I use the mouse, I have one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse. I, at least, don't need to hands to move/click on a mouse.

    Secondly, the thesaurus/dock. First off, yes, the Mac is different, if it was exactly the same as Windows, what would be the point? The usability of the dock is, again, a highly debatable point. Of course, I do not understand why you couldnt follow the same windowing habits as you did on the PC. I layer windows constantly, and, as another poster said, Command-Tab works the same as Control-Tab on the PC (for the most part). In addition, there is a shareware program called Konfabulator (controversial, but nevertheless worth mentioning) which provides a thesaurus that can be placed directly & permanently on the desktop. The dock can also be pinned to the sides of the screen (or top with freeware). In addition, a shareware program called "WindowShade" allows you to collapse windows so that only the bar is showing, doubleclicking on the bar brings the window back. Another option called minimize-in-place exists, however, this involves installation of a Apple beta-quality dock and would not suggest it for a "novice user". All this said, however, OS X could obviously use some work in the treatment of minimized windows; I think the amount of shareware/freeware/etc to remedy the situation proves that. Also, the Apple-H/Hide command allows a program to be temporarily hidden from view (returned to position when application is selected from dock, no "hunting for windows necessary". Also, simply selecting an application from the dock brings its windows forward, stacked in the same manner as when you went into another program (ie. word). There are, obviously, many solutions to this problem which would have required very little relearning.

    Speed. This is a known issue with the Mac currently. Even testing a machine in the store should have brought this to light, if not, reading any website that has computer reviews would. Microsoft applications especially lag on the Mac, but is there any surprise there? [EDIT] By the way, this is no excuse for Apple. I truly hope that they will "bring the goods" soon, as the speed issue is becoming ridiculous. All I mean[t] was that IF speed is that important, obviously Macs are not currently the way to go. [/EDIT]

    All in all, though, I think this is what prevents people from switching in the first place: dislike of change. Remember, "counter-intuitive" and "what I'm used to" are two different things.

    macktheknife: I don't really see this as a problem, or if it is, it is equal on both platforms. The representation of all windows in the "taskbar" leads to the obscurity of window titles, until only an icon is shown, rendering their representation pointless. This requires the same, if not more, mouse scrubbing than the Mac OS X treatment. I have never once gone to the dock to show a visible window, though, I either use the "Window" menu of whatever application I am in, or simply locate the window by the visible area behind the current window.
  20. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816


    Nov 24, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    I've used two HP laptop with dual button trackpads and I honestly hate them. I know I mostly left click and Apple knows this too. I would much rather have a simple streamlined device than something with many buttons.
  21. beatle888 macrumors 68000


    Feb 3, 2002
    im sorta wondering her real reasons for posting. its strange. i mean, complaining about a two button track pad? didnt she look at and try the product before the purchase? hey different strokes is what it comes down to. i just hope that the little guy goes to a good home, or did she get her money back? oh well who cares.
  22. dkeninitz macrumors regular

    Feb 16, 2003
    Germantown, MD
    I've been using a TiBook for a little over three months now -- my first Mac, though I've been using PC's of all stripes for 20 years.

    I don't notice that the Mac is more -- or less -- intuitive to use than a Wintel machine. And I don't find OS X to be any more or less stable than Win XP.

    On the whole, I just find the Mac to be diffferent, rather than "better". Like other PC users, I find the Apple one-button mouse to be a pain, but the lack of scroll wheel is even worse. With a Mac laptop, I agree you can just choose to buy a third-party two-button wheel mouse. But with a desktop, you've gotta to buy a replacement for the included Apple mouse, which means paying added $$ on top of the price premium Apple already commands.

    One other TiBook pet peeve is the lack of separate backspace and delete keys. The delete key functions like a PC backspace key, deleting characters to the left of the cursor; if you want to delete characters to the right you've got to hold down the function key while pressing delete, which I find cumbersome. For me it's not a matter of getting used to it, I just find it annoying to have to hold two keys to delete leading characters.

    I do find my 1ghz, 1gig RAM TiBook to be noticeably slower than any of my Wintel machines, which range from an 867mhz PIII Thinkpad to a 2.0ghz P4 Dell Dimension desktop.
  23. Caddy thread starter macrumors member

    Mar 13, 2003
    OHHH, you've got me all figured out, I am posting for some insidious reasons! Please, have you ever considered that we are not all created the same; something that may not be a major inconvenience to you *Surprise, Surprise* might be quite problematic for me. As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, I write avidly. I am finishing my M.A in two weeks and I begin my PhD next fall. My main computing use is word processing. For those who do very little word processing, it may be difficult to fathom the hassle that the lack of a two button mouse can cause. I highly doubt this is the case since more than one other person has expressed his/her frustration with this same problem. I am used to highlighting and then cutting and pasting all with my hands on the mouse. And for the ump-teenth time, I have a plug in mouse, the point of having a laptop is that it obviates the need for a desktop. If I wanted to sit at a desktop, I would have retained my original desktop; I wanted a laptop *another Surprise, Surprise* so I could sit on my chaise lounge and write. I find it highly inconvenient to use an attachable mouse while sitting on the couch.

    I wasn't going to post but yes, I do browse the web and I was taken aback by how critical many of you were to the user who started "I hate myself." As if it is purely unheard of to regret buying a Mac; that anyone who does so should be accused of blasphemy! Shame on her, may she rot you know were. Because of that, I thought I would share my experience. Contrary to what I thought, many of you have echoed my sentiments. For those of you who can't understand, I suggest you try to equate it on terms you are familiar with: If within the main reason for your computer use (whatever it may be) there was something substantially bothersome, would it not irritate you? Of course! So again, I am sorry some of you cannot comprehend that the "little mouse" problem was much more than that.

    Good night to all.
  24. beatle888 macrumors 68000


    Feb 3, 2002
    ok ok, you dont like the mac. and in your mind, for good reason. but you gotta admit, coming to a mac fan site and saying that you think their not intuitive and such is like walking into a lions den and expecting them not to lick their chops.

    oh and i dont think any of us took the i hate myself comment as truth. we shouldnt of right?

    anyway, glad you have an opinion. happy MSing.

    please note: none of the above was meant to sound mean or spiteful. enjoy the computer you end up with.

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