Spotify Says App Store Changes Don't 'Get to the Core of the Problem'

[MacRumors]

After Apple announced a handful of new changes heading to the App Store under Phil Schiller's reign -- including a new revenue split for subscriptions and ads in search results -- Spotify recently commented its opinion on the announcements. Speaking with The Verge, Jonathan Prince, Spotify's head of corporate communications and global policy, said simply, "It's a nice gesture, but doesn't get to the core of the problem."

One of Spotify's major hangups centers around the fact that the new rules still prohibit apps from offering "special offers or discounts," because price flexibility is prohibited. The Cupertino company's policy makes sure that it's a constant presence between the customer and developer, "which means developers will continue to lack visibility into why customers churn."

"Unless Apple changes its rules, price flexibility is prohibited, which is why we can never provide special offers or discounts, and means we won't have the ability to share any savings with our customers," Prince continued. "Apple still insists on inserting itself between developers and their customers, which means developers will continue to lack visibility into why customers churn -- or who even qualifies as a long-term subscriber."

Prince also said that the rules make it hard to even determine which customers could be considered as a long-term subscriber - an important factor to take into account now that Apple will take only a 15 percent cut if a user stays subscribed to a service for more than a year. Apple currently takes 30 percent of a subscription fee when users sign up to a service on the App Store.

Spotify's concerns follow an uptick in subscriber activity in the year since Apple's rival subscription music service, Apple Music, launched to the public. While the latter platform is on track to gain 15 million subscribers for its one-year anniversary in late June, Spotify has grown from 20 million paid users last June, to 30 million in May of 2016. The company noted that since Apple Music launched it has "been growing quicker and adding more users than before."

Article Link: Spotify Says App Store Changes Don't 'Get to the Core of the Problem'

 

[b0nd18t]

Lol didnt take long for Spotify to raise another set of issues

 

[Paradoxally]

Start paying your artists and then complain about Apple's policies.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

Nice to finally get some insight as to the hangup on Spotify coming to the Apple TV. That's a big gripe of mine and only part of a reason why I recently bought a Roku 4 and displaced my Apple TV 4.

This is not unlike the issue with Amazon Prime on TVOS; a policy issue at Apple.

 

[Brad9893]

Considering that Spotify is currently offering 3 months of Premium for 99 cents, I don't think that Apple has impaired their ability to pass on discounts and savings to consumers, even if they can't offer it via the app.

 

[DisNerd]

Or they could put on their big boy pants and take Apple Pay inside the app

 

[Abazigal]

The core of the problem is that Spotify ultimately doesn't control its own platform. The biggest music streaming service in the world is ultimately just another app on my smartphone, and still had to play by another company's rules. I fail to see how this is Apple's fault, or what obligation Apple has to "play fair".

 

[Three141]

I'm surprised that Apple music has had a positive effect on Spotify, I was sure it was going to slow it down, that's a surprising win from Spotify.

It appears to be a win win for Apple as they are getting a proportion of the the subscription fee which seems strange to me, I'm assuming this is for people who sign up via App store.

 

[Tycho24]

"We don't have access to more specific metrics about our users because Apple respects their privacy.... they win, we lose! Wah."
is all I heard...

 

[keysofanxiety]

Start paying your artists and then complain about Apple's policies.

Spotify practically operate at a loss - and let's not forget that Apple, one of the most profitable companies in the world, pay near-identical to Spotify's rates. So what does that say? I'm not sure what the cut-off point is of being unreasonable.

I am grateful for streaming services. Way back when, if I was to discover an album, I'd have to either buy it or pirate it. Not many people are willing to give away their hard-earned to blindly buy albums without having the opportunity to sample them - especially if you don't have much disposable income.

I was always of the mentality that if I listened to an album and really enjoyed it, I'd buy the album. It used to be that after a few spins from downloading it, I'd go out and buy it because I loved it that much. Now, I can legally listen to the album beforehand with some reassurance that the artist is at least getting some compensation for this - or at the very least, feedback of how many people are listening to it, and how often - and then I'll go out and buy the album if it's really special.

Streaming isn't perfect, but you haven't really given an alternative solution. A bit of a paradox, Paradoxally?

 

[WordsmithMR]

Considering that Spotify is currently offering 3 months of Premium for 99 cents, I don't think that Apple has impaired their ability to pass on discounts and savings to consumers, even if they can't offer it via the app.

Something they can't promote within app. So yea it's still impairs them...

 

[2457282]

I am sorry Spotify, but I like that Apple is a "constant presence between the customer and developer." Otherwise this would be just like google where my profile and usage data is sold to vendors that will use it in ways I do not like. Privacy of my data is one reason I stick with Apple over other vendors. Work with Apple to figure out how to do things and maybe they will work with you. But the position of "give me all the data so I can figure out who is who and what the do" is not going to fly with Apple. And I am glad about that.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I'm surprised that Apple music has had a positjve effect on Spotify, I was sureit was going to slow it down that's surprising from Spotify.

It appears to be a win win for Apple as they are getting a proportion of the the subsxription fee which seems strange to me, i'm assuming this is for people who sign up via App store.

I don't know the reasons why the majority of Spotify Premium users either stayed with or moved to Spotify over Apple Music, but for me it was primarily the user interface for why I stayed with Spotify. I didn't care for the mostly white appearance and the dancing bubbles for indicating which type of music I preferred. I also like Spotify's mood and genre selections a lot and much prefer the dark theme too.

 

[Brad9893]

Something they can't promote within app. So yea it's still impairs them...

So they make up for it by sending you lots of emails promoting their offers every week. The word still gets out.

 

[japanime]

Start paying your artists and then complain about Apple's policies.

I came here to say the same thing. Spotify has a lot of nerve complaining about Apple.

Spotify practically operate at a loss - and let's not forget that Apple, one of the most profitable companies in the world, pay near-identical to Spotify's rates. So what does that say? I'm not sure what the cut-off point is of being unreasonable.

It's not an issue of Spotify (and Apple) only paying peanuts. It's that Spotify doesn't pay many artists at all, claiming they can't "find" many of the artists to whom royalties are owed.

 

[jonnysods]

They could just offer a web app if they don't like the Apple Store.

Having said that, I'm a Spotify customer and I do enjoy their service.

 

[keysofanxiety]

It's not an issue of Spotify (and Apple) only paying peanuts. It's that Spotify doesn't pay many artists at all, claiming they can't "find" many of the artists to whom royalties are owed.

Hi there Japanime (pretty clever username by the way!),

Please don't feel I'm calling you out on what you're saying. I wasn't aware of what you've just mentioned. I've tried to have a look online but can't find any citations to indicate this. I was wondering if you could possibly direct me to an article about this?

 

[inhalexhale1]

I don't know the reasons why the majority of Spotify Premium users either stayed with or moved to Spotify over Apple Music, but for me it was primarily the user interface for why I stayed with Spotify. I didn't care for the mostly white appearance and the dancing bubbles for indicating which type of music I preferred. I also like Spotify's mood and genre selections a lot and much prefer the dark theme too.

I feel the same way, and I bet a lot of other people do also. The Spotify interface is much simpler, and allows you get things done faster. Apple Music had too much going on, like it was trying to be iTunes on a much smaller screen. The whole social network/follow the artist thing was unneeded. I also like Spotify playlists much better as well.

 

[keysofanxiety]

I feel the same way, and I bet a lot of other people do also. The Spotify interface is much simpler, and allows you get things done faster. Apple Music had too much going on, like it was trying to be iTunes on a much smaller screen. The whole social network/follow the artist thing was unneeded. I also like Spotify playlists much better as well.

Yep, and doesn't help that Apple are so far up their own rears with self-congratulation, that they continue to peddle Apple Music like it's a divine revelation. I wonder what product they actually think they've shipped.

They really need to take a hard look at themselves in a lot of areas and make things intuitive. Start with the consumer and work backwards from there. Same goes for the Music app.

 

[Three141]

I don't know the reasons why the majority of Spotify Premium users either stayed with or moved to Spotify over Apple Music, but for me it was primarily the user interface for why I stayed with Spotify. I didn't care for the mostly white appearance and the dancing bubbles for indicating which type of music I preferred. I also like Spotify's mood and genre selections a lot and much prefer the dark theme too.

This surprises me, I don't use any streaming services so can't say for myself but to hear Apple got out Interfaced is not something I would expect keeping it simple and good looking is almost an Apple trade mark now.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

This surprises me, I don't use any streaming services so can't say for myself but to hear Apple got out Interfaced is not something I would expect keeping it simple and good looking is almost an Apple trade mark now.

Yeah, but many people complain about iTunes and someone just mentioned above that Apple Music, to them, seemed like they tried to make a mini iTunes out of it and cram in too much stuff. The social media aspect of it is silly to me, just like Ping was totally a flop a number of years ago in iTunes.

 

[jonnyb098]

I tried all the major streaming services last summer (Apple Music, Spotify, Rdio (R.I.P)). The main reason for me sticking with apple music was the integration with my current library with thousands of songs. Spotify was a very close second place contender in my mind. The problem with ALL streaming services is that they are literally trying to do EVERYTHING. Discovery, on demand, sharing, recommendations, whats new, search. Jamming that all onto one screen isn't very easy to do and make intuitive.....and no Spotify isn't that great at it either. Better than Apple but not by much. In both apps its very easy to drill down and start getting lost. For example , Spotify FINALLY figured out that having a nav bar at the bottom properly give a sense of place. Before the latest update you have to swipe from the side to figure out "WHERE AM I????".

We will find out next week at WWDC what Apple Music has in store. I feel its gonna be huge and will catapult it. The design sounds to be much simpler, darker theme, easier to use. If they clean it up, it'll crush Spotify within a couple years since Spotify is currently operating at a loss and Apple has cash to burn for years to come.

 

[japanime]

Hi there Japanime (pretty clever username by the way!),

Please don't feel I'm calling you out on what you're saying. I wasn't aware of what you've just mentioned. I've tried to have a look online but can't find any citations to indicate this. I was wondering if you could possibly direct me to an article about this?

No worries — I'm happy to cite a few sources. The issue has been covered by many major media outlets.

Much of this came to light when David Lowery, frontman of Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven, brought a $120 million class-action lawsuit against Spotify late last year. Here's a Billboard story about it:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/b...ate-explains-150-million-class-action-spotify

The LA Times reported on another musician's bid for a class-action suit against Spotify:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...otify-songwriter-lawsuits-20160108-story.html

Bloomberg also covered the Lowery suit:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-07/spotify-isn-t-laughing-off-this-lawsuit

Here's a brief story on Spotify's response to Lowery's suit:
http://www.completemusicupdate.com/article/spotify-responds-to-david-lowerys-mechanicals-lawsuit/

Scribd has the court filings here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/294240430/David-Lowery-Lawsuit-vs-Spotify

 

[0029937]

Maybe most will know this, but this should be brought up in every Spotify article as a public service announcement: if you have Spotify, and subscribed to a paid account through your iPhone... you're paying an extra 30% compared to having subscribed to Spotify through their own website.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/8/8913105/spotify-apple-app-store-email

 

[69Mustang]

I am sorry Spotify, but I like that Apple is a "constant presence between the customer and developer." Otherwise this would be just like google where my profile and usage data is sold to vendors that will use it in ways I do not like. Privacy of my data is one reason I stick with Apple over other vendors. Work with Apple to figure out how to do things and maybe they will work with you. But the position of "give me all the data so I can figure out who is who and what the do" is not going to fly with Apple. And I am glad about that.

We've agreed too much lately, so I'm happy we can finally disagree on something. You're applying blanket privacy logic while ignoring the context of Spotify's (and other app devs) issues. This has nothing to do with, and is nothing like that, incorrect btw, claim of Google selling data.

This is about having the ability to improve services for customers who chose to use the devs apps. If devs have no visibility to their customers, then they're guessing at what's right, what's wrong, and what needs to change. What dev doesn't need to know about customer churn? What dev wouldn't want to show appreciation to loyal customers? Myriad other reasons why knowledge your customer base is essential to staying relevant and actually making money. Make no mistake, when you choose to purchase an app you are that dev's customer as well. Would you not want their products to improve? Hyperbolic --> Nobody wants the App Store to get as bad as MAS. Besides, this isn't a binary situation like: Gimme all the informations or gimme none of the information. Allowing devs to improve their offerings benefits all concerned: Apple, the dev, and most importantly, the customer.

To use privacy as some type of clarion call against information sharing is short sighted in my opinion. None of companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, or Spotify sell customer data. I wish people would stop with this. They all collect customer data to, according to every single one of their privacy policies, help improve their products, services, and advertising; among other things.

 

[0029937]

I tried all the major streaming services last summer (Apple Music, Spotify, Rdio (R.I.P)). The main reason for me sticking with apple music was the integration with my current library with thousands of songs. Spotify was a very close second place contender in my mind. The problem with ALL streaming services is that they are literally trying to do EVERYTHING. Discovery, on demand, sharing, recommendations, whats new, search. Jamming that all onto one screen isn't very easy to do and make intuitive.....and no Spotify isn't that great at it either. Better than Apple but not by much. In both apps its very easy to drill down and start getting lost. For example , Spotify FINALLY figured out that having a nav bar at the bottom properly give a sense of place. Before the latest update you have to swipe from the side to figure out "WHERE AM I????".

We will find out next week at WWDC what Apple Music has in store. I feel its gonna be huge and will catapult it. The design sounds to be much simpler, darker theme, easier to use. If they clean it up, it'll crush Spotify within a couple years since Spotify is currently operating at a loss and Apple has cash to burn for years to come.

I agree with a lot of your points even though I prefer Spotify. You did however forget a major reality about the future of these music service models: lately Apple has tended to F things up more than give us what we want. Majority of people prefer Spotify as well it seems. That one I would also argue is a fact. I know you have an emotional attachment to your music collection already being with Apple, but from what I'm always reading on these forums and more interestingly in real life: people prefer Spotify.