State of the Union: decleration of War?

Discussion in 'Community' started by drastik, Jan 28, 2003.

  1. drastik macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #1
    Of course, we have not formally declared war, but Bush is using some very strong language and when he does declare war, I imagine we will hear much of the same language.

    I don't really want to fight this one out with everyone, I'm feeling that War is inevitable now, and it depreses me to talk about it.

    I will say this. Many of the people here on Macrumors are around draft age. I have no doubt that the administration will reinstate the draft if it feels it neccesary. If any of you have to go, I'm sorry. Your president cares nothing for you and your opinions on this war.

    This could be solved diplomatically, and if not by precision strike teams, but we have been promised "the full might of the United States armed forces" and that may mean you.
     
  2. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #2
    while i do believe war is inevitable (and lamentable) i don't think bush could or would reinstitute the draft. it would be political suicide. and also, if we can't beat saddam with the 250,000 troops we're already sending, then i'm sure the next 250,000 would do it (all volunteer).
     
  3. drastik thread starter macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #3
    I hope your right. I've been hearing some talk about reinstating the draft on the Tv news shows. Mostly old fat white guys advocating it. I don't know how the draft works, as far as instating it, but I don't think that its impossible to reinstate.
     
  4. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #4
    i prepared for this contingency a couple of years ago-- i'm ineligible for the draft for a couple of medical reasons, but i got them on file with the military so i won't have to worry about it if and when the time comes.

    call me a draft-dodger all you want, it's the way i'm gonna play it. i hope bush reinstating the draft (which is possibility) will make people wake up, but you never know.

    pnw
     
  5. mozez macrumors member

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    Sep 18, 2001
    #5
    my roomate is in the army and he's already been called up, i however, am a diabetic and can't be drafted, aww, i'm very hurt.... i think the whole thing is a child's fight, and not worth war. fights should be chosen wisely. it seems like we're picking a fight rather than defending freedom, and acting agressively at the wrong time. most americans feel the united states is the most powerful nation on earth, and it probably is, but doing this "showdown" makes us look very childish and overagressive, very microsoftish in the world. countries like germany, russia, france, canada, china and others ahve all said they want no part in this. war may be enevitble, but is it worth it if the people fighting it don't believe in what they are fighting for, or don't even know why they are fighting? we could attack iraq and take the country in less than a week, we won't, but we could, bush is trying to send a message by sending ove and army, instead of a strike force. i still don't understand his message, but that's just me.
     
  6. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #6
    I'm totally against the draft (and eligible to be a victim of it), but there are millions of young and able pro-war Republican males in this country who should be all for it. These guys alone would constitute more than enough force to pound the towelheads into the sand, right? I don't see why anyone should be required to fight for what they don't believe in, especially when there are so many out there who are more enthusiastic and better suited to the job.

    The problem is that conservatives want liberals to fight their wars for them so that any mass slaughter that may result from their foolish actions will be distributed evenly along party lines. I find it disturbing how those who make the decisions about this stuff are completely detatched from it personally.
     
  7. Choppaface macrumors 65816

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    #7
    it's not a draft, it's an opportunity for mutiny :D :D mwhahahahahahahaa :D :D

    though if we were all so involved in politics, there wouldn't be too much room for 'real life' though, would there? :D
     
  8. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #8
    if Bush is soo hell bent on war for wars sake why hasn't the war been declared already... and have had our troops sent in there? whats the stalling about?... if indeed he is wants war with Iraq and doesnt care about the american people.
     
  9. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    #9
    I'm under the understanding that there is a bill about reinstating the draft currently being debated on up on the hill.
     
  10. springscansing macrumors 6502a

    springscansing

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    #10
    Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?

    Donald Rumsfeld (?) already said there's no way in hell this would happen. It's just ridiculous. Get your fact straight.
     
  11. springscansing macrumors 6502a

    springscansing

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    #11
    This bill was just proposed by someone idiot congressman trying to make a statement. I can't recall his name, but he's black and represents an area of the northeast, and is basically a crackpot. Maybe that will help you recall his name? haha
     
  12. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #12
    Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?


    Oh, this is intelligent. Man, that makes me feel so much better that you, can let us know just exactly what it is that our President feels. Did ya listen to the speech. Do you not understand that he values life more than anything! Do you not get that he knows that the biggest decision that a President can make is to send in the troops! Did ya not listen!

    Oh, you mean like it has over the last 12 years! Give this guy another 12 years, and you know what. You won't have to worry about a draft, a girlfriend, social security, or the economy. Because he will give these weapons away, and they will be used for mass, and I mean in the neighborhood of millions dead, mass murder. It is going to happen, it needs to happen, and if you can't see that then you are blind!
     
  13. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #13
    You know what Alex. You live up north. You are just a hop, skip and jump from Canada, if they reinstituted the draft, just go north man. Hell, this country isn't worth defending. Did ya not hear that there will be evidence released to the world that proves Sadam has ties to and even helped train Al Queada?

    Oh, and as far as stating that conservatives want liberals to fight their wars for them so that...... I have heard some stupid **** in my life, but that, without a doubt, is the dumbest statement that anyone over the age of 3 has ever uttered in their life!
     
  14. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #14

    Some would leave. I won't, because that would mean handing the country I love to the stiff upper lips. I'll be bitching and moaning about this and anything else until Ashcroft locks me up without a trial.

    So what? So if we bomb Iraq then al Qaida is no longer a threat? Or it's even any less of a threat? The war on terrorism is a shadow war and Iraq is a convenient scapegoat.
    How is it dumb? Conservatives would be delighted if liberals went out en masse to fight these ridiculous wars. And mass deaths of voting age liberals --> greater conservative chances of political victory. It makes perfect sense, you see.
     
  15. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Ok, **** you! You are a dumb ass, beyond what the word dumb ass means. Screw you if you think that republicans want anyone to die. You a stupid ****er Alex, you really are. You can make stupid ass statements, you can even insult my president. But to say with any seriousness that anyone in this country would want young men and women to die for their political preference is stupid as ****!

    Besides your arguement is flawed from the beginning because most military people are republican.

    Having served under Bill Clinton, my father under three presidents, and grandfather under three, you can kiss our collective ass for that bull **** opinion.

    Arn, sorry for the rant. In over two years I have never done that, but that was a direct insult to me. One that cannot go without discussion, and hostitility.
     
  16. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #16
    I want to say I am sorry to everyone at Macrumors. I have never went off like that, but that really pissed me off.
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #17
    Re: Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?

    I'm not going to participate in the draft/war discussion, but I do want to say that I have heard Bush talk about how he wants to help all americans and how he wants to create policies and incentives that will help the little guy.

    Unfortunately, his tax proposals aren't "for the little guy" and they certainly aren't "fair."

    I've also heard him say all sorts of other things, while he hides a whole lot more from us.

    So, yes, I did listen; I'm just not sure whether I trust the guy.
     
  18. Ovi macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Re: Re: Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?

    11
     
  19. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #19
    Re: Re: Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?

    mcrain, his proposals are for the little guy and are fair. It will give me and my family back over 2,000 of our money this year. He is right about Small business. This cut would put more money back into small business so that they can stimulate the economy.

    Sorry to be rude, but lets face it. The people that make below 20,000 a year are not going to be the people that spend us out of this recession. The people who will are the people who have it. My best friends dad made 1.2 million last year and paid over 400,000 in taxes. Under the proposed plan according to his cpa he would have paid right at 360,000. So, does he get the biggest benifit in whole dollars, yes, in overall % points. No. I made over 35,000 last year, and you know what. Because of the things that Bush wants to do, I will not pay any tax, and get back over 2,500 in child credits and lifetime education credits.

    Nothing is going to be fair to everyone, but with 92 million people earning dividens on stocks, that is a pretty fair one to cut. Killing the marriage penalty is huge to me and my wife. Etc, Etc, Etc.

    Don't be such a tax loving democrat ;)
    B2TM ducks into a nuclear bunker for fear of mcrains response!
     
  20. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

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    #20
    Congressman Charles Rangel proposed to idea of reinstituting the draft, nothing more.

    The US doesn't need a draft, especially to fight against Iraq.

    With the technology in todays military you need less people then you did 20 years ago.
     
  21. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #21
    unequal sharing of blessings....

    so i should be happy b/c everyone who makes over $300,000 a year is getting a giant tax cut? how much tax are you saving on *your* dividends. i certainly hold no stock. just b/c capitalism distributes resources unevenly does not mean the best way to help the economy is to line the pockets of the rich. which is exactly what will happen. very little of that money will go towards creating new jobs/pay raises/etc. trickle down economincs at its best, eh?
     
  22. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #22
    Damn, didn't you hear me. I won't have to pay any tax, and I only made 35,000 last year. The rich pay a higher % of all the taxes now than they ever have. The thing is that no one will ever be happy with all of the tax.
     
  23. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    #23

    It's funny how racist and bigoted you are. You think that just because we dispise war and killing we are liberals or anti-american. You couldn't be further from the truth. Most of us are conservatives or we were until Bush came along. We value life above all and that is why we dispise war. Don't fool yourself into thinking there is no other way and that we didn't somehow cause the actions of 9/11. Killing NEVER prevents killing. It only works to propagate it futher. I do not support the war effort and I do not support the draft but if there is a draft I will not dodge it and go to canada. I will not go to school full time. I will sign up before they draft me so that I may have some choice on what I do in the military.

    Oh, and by the way. We also helped train the Al Queada. Should we declare war on ourselves because we supported terrorists? Well we did and we even gave them weapons.
     
  24. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

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    #24
    What does racism or bigotry have to do with this? It's funny how people are so quick to label that to someone when it doesn't apply.

    That's one of the biggest myths out there, we never trained or supplied Al Qaeda.

    If you say we have, we are your sources. I mean legitimate ones too, not ones from www.wehatetheus.com type of sites.
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    Re: Re: Re: Re: State of the Union: decleration of War?

    No nuclear response. You argue that wealthy americans will spend us out of a recession. In fact, that's opposite of the truth. If you have a million extra sitting in the bank or the stock market, the odds are that if someone gives you an additional 300,000, you aren't going to be going on a spending spree. You'll probably just look for another safe investment.

    On the other hand, the businesses that you'd invest in sell products that people use on a day to day basis. Those businesses are far more likely to see a huge increase in sales if a far larger number of people on the low end of the totem pole receive a small amount of additional money. Those people are far more likely to take their extra couple thousand dollars and spend it rather than stick it into a safe investment.

    If increasing spending is really your goal, then the tax cuts should be to married couples with children, people who make less than 60,000 or so per year, sales, excise, property, state and local taxes, and all the other taxes that disproportionately target the less wealthy.

    If fairness is really your goal, then I'm sure you've evaluated the effects of the proposed federal income tax cuts on the distribution of the overall tax burden. We've had this discussion before, and you know my opinions.

    I personally am very much for lowering taxes and for the free exercise of capitalism (please, to those of you who like to insinuate that democrats or liberals are wrong, the whole socialism communism name calling thing is getting really old).

    Oh, and the rich don't pay a higher percentage in taxes than they ever have. That's an absolute farce. Before Reagan the federal income tax brackets were far highter. 36% is fairly low historically speaking. You love your military history, you might find tax history rather interesting too. Oh, while you didn't say that "rich pay a higher percentage of all the taxes now," that too is false. They do pay a very high percentage of federal income taxes, probably the highest percentage of all time (I don't know), but that is only, yes ONLY, taking into account federal income taxes. Of the overall tax burden, the distribution is far more even.

    Oh, how and why do you think the rich pay so much more percentage in income taxes than they used to? Could it possibly be that the trickle down economics under Reagan and Bush really did nothing more than make the rich richer and the poor poorer? If so, why do you advocate W. Bush's new trickle down economics proposals?

    mcrain ducks into a nuclear shelter...
     

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