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justperry

macrumors G5
Aug 10, 2007
12,553
9,745
I'm a rolling stone.
Look! It is an UFO.

No, this is....

foto-evoluon-compressed.jpg
 

litmag01

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2009
371
270
Holy Trees!!

Nice concept drawing, but I dont think there are that many trees in the entire South Bay!
 

Mactendo

macrumors 68000
Oct 3, 2012
1,967
2,045
It's the headquarters building of Apple (Apple!) for the next 50 or more years. Why not to polish it as it deserves. It can look great and be ahead of its time even in 2050.
 

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,846
3,779
Atlanta, USA
I say they should not move away from Steve's Vision.
It's like JJ Abrams once said in an amazing TED Talk Session. Every time he sits in front of his macbook, he's just blasted away by the perfection of this thing, so it inspires him to write something at least equal to the laptop itself on the device.

It 's the same with that building. People who work there will feel, even if it's unconsciously, that they need to go for a product quality equal to their office! :apple: Steve forever !:)

I get your point, I really do - but I can't help feeling that creativity, drive, passion and commitment are fueled (at least in part) by adversity. As a business professor once commented in a lecture many years ago: "You do your best thinking when you're hungry."

And thinking about it, some of the greatest artists of all time died penniless.
 

DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,191
812
Even before the cost overruns, $3 billions seems like a lot to spend for a building that just houses people.

Should let everyone work from home and return those billions back to the shareholders.
 

nabisco

macrumors newbie
Sep 12, 2008
25
0
I've gotta be honest, the level of dedication and perfection they put into this should match what they claim to do for products. They have the money, so I say why not.

Is it the most efficient way to spend the money? No. But that drive for perfection should really be embodied in every facet of the company if thats the standard you expect, including the building. That's what I like about Apple, the tiny little details that make such a difference.

But their products aren't perfect, are they? The quality has slipped in the last few years as they've been pressured to increase margins. Looking at my iPad, it's got 2 significant design flaws, both the result of cost-cutting - the buttons are plastic now and the new dock connector is a piece of **** (and still doesn't have strain relief!)
 

bobob

macrumors 68040
Jan 11, 2008
3,437
2,520
Steve's dead. Be sane and move on.
I agree, are they going to let him dictate what Apple does for the rest of their lives? His way of thinking is no longer valid...

I agree, when did Apple ever care about quality in their products?

(Oh right - - always - - it was what made them great in the first place.)
 

Wiesenlooser

macrumors 6502a
Jul 9, 2010
981
1,539
This was Steve's vision. It would be kind of unfair to change it. After all , it is "just" 2 billion. The negative effect of cutting corners would be far worse.

Steve's Apple was always about trying to make the best products they could. Changing the building by making it cheaper would also mean a change in this philosophy.
 

Meandmunch

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2002
496
143
By all means create your amazing building but there are limits. I think no one is gonna notice those .125 inch gaps or the fact you switched to flat panel glass instead of the curve around that giant building. I mean could you even notice are or circumference that large?
 

HockeyMike

macrumors newbie
Mar 6, 2013
8
0
I applaud Jobs vision and attention to detail and it works in the products, but what happens when the 8.2 earthquake hits and the glass breaks and the 1/32nd gaps become 5/8th's and the building is split into two? Surely the builders will accommodate for ground movement, but spending $1,500 per sq. ft. instead of $1,000 sounds a little excessive to me.

Also, the old campus never got this attention to detail, why be so anal now?
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
Basically, yes....

I think even Steve told his successors, shortly before he passed away, that he'd like them to run Apple by making their own decisions. One thing about Jobs was, right or wrong, he made choices and followed through with them.

For all the grief people gave about some of his design choices (1 button mice, for example?), he didn't just change his mind and say, "Oh... maybe people don't like my idea so much." He pushed forward with it, and today, people still associate that 1-button mouse with Apple branded products. When he knew the switch to OS X made only 1 button impractical, he still stuck to his beliefs by releasing a "no button mouse" with the mighty mouse and then the magic mouse, vs. caving in and making a mouse just like every other one on the market.

I think the proper way for Apple to handle this building project is to build a campus THEY can be truly proud of, and which reflects Steve's vision for it, while still incorporating current leadership (making decisive choices where it saves the company money, while still resulting in a superior result).

I've worked in construction related business for a long time myself, and one thing I know is -- they LOVE to inflate the projected cost of a project as soon as you demand they do something different than the way they're used to doing it. It doesn't matter if your way is more efficient and superior. They're very resistant to change and automatically think, "Make me learn a new way to do my job? I'm gonna make you PAY for that!"

So this may require getting more bids from newer, more flexible contractors who are willing to try new things?

Yes. Clearly they have the money to do what they want. Only - they answer to the stockholders and BOD. If it's seen as "waste" and overblown in budget - that's not going to sit well.

Second - I can appreciate that Apple wants to create the campus as per Steve's wishes. But ultimately, he's dead. That doesn't mean they have to cut corners or defy his wishes. But there's no way Steve could possibly predict fluctuations in pricing, materials, etc to pull this off.

If all of the sudden the company that was making the glass no longer existed - what then? Don't build? Build with "inferior" materials. A BROAD example. But the point is the same.

Apple should do what they can and in the spirit that Steve Jobs wanted. But they also need to stand on their own and do what they need to do.

Otherwise - where's the line. Do they concern themselves more with time to finish and/or costs. Both relate to each other as the longer the project takes, the more of a money pit (not being used in a derogatory sense) the project becomes.

Again - stockholders don't want to see a company spending billions upon billions and delaying the opening of the campus for a decade (for example) just because Steve jobs wanted no brush strokes to ever be seen.
 

chiefsilverback

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2011
458
438
If I won the lottery and had my own house built I would be JUST as emphatic about the quality and fit and finish, if your not they will build it to a cost, a chap one.
My parents built a house and didn't scrimp on the finish. Their carpenters are cabinet makers by trade and one day when we pointed out that something was just a hair's breadth off level they said it was rare and refreshing to find people who actually cared about quality to that level as most people today want it done fast and cheap...

When they put it on the market their estate agent said it was one of the highest quality finishes (not the most expensive materials) he'd ever seen!
 

AlphaHumanus

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2012
514
85
I agree, are they going to let him dictate what Apple does for the rest of their lives? His way of thinking is no longer valid, however I am not taking away from the things he had an impact on over the time he was with Apple.

What are you on? I had an entire diatribe planned out, but F'k it. Your wrong.

I miss Mr. Jobs. Not personally of course, but the idea of a guy like that. This building needs to be built.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,084
31,015
Yet employees at Apple don't get free lunch (as employees at many tech companies do).

Oh cry me a river. I work for a fortune 5o company and they don't pay for any of our food. I always thought it a bit ridiculous that the company you work for should buy your lunch (or provide you health care benefits, but that's a whole other subject ;) ).
 

wovel

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2010
1,839
161
America(s)!
There is a big difference between designing a building's layout and the material / finish specifications. You can accomplish the former without going overboard on the latter. The questions is what does spending on "amazing" get you over "Better" and "Good Enough." They can get a very impressive design and aesthetics without requiring perfection; at a lot lower cost.The board and C suite have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders, regardless of wether or not Apple "can afford it."

You do realize we are talking about an incredibly profitable company that still (despite what you read) has incredible growth. I am pretty sure you would have a hard time making a claim of the Apple board and officers not meeting their fiduciary responsibility. If they paid 100 billion for a 1500 square-foot shack in Sacramento, you might have a shot though.

If you have a vague understanding of fiduciary responsibility or an understanding of Apple as a company, you can't possibly see a problem with a large capital expense to build a headquarters that fits their image.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
I think even Steve told his successors, shortly before he passed away, that he'd like them to run Apple by making their own decisions. One thing about Jobs was, right or wrong, he made choices and followed through with them.

For all the grief people gave about some of his design choices (1 button mice, for example?), he didn't just change his mind and say, "Oh... maybe people don't like my idea so much." He pushed forward with it, and today, people still associate that 1-button mouse with Apple branded products. When he knew the switch to OS X made only 1 button impractical, he still stuck to his beliefs by releasing a "no button mouse" with the mighty mouse and then the magic mouse, vs. caving in and making a mouse just like every other one on the market.

I think the proper way for Apple to handle this building project is to build a campus THEY can be truly proud of, and which reflects Steve's vision for it, while still incorporating current leadership (making decisive choices where it saves the company money, while still resulting in a superior result).

I've worked in construction related business for a long time myself, and one thing I know is -- they LOVE to inflate the projected cost of a project as soon as you demand they do something different than the way they're used to doing it. It doesn't matter if your way is more efficient and superior. They're very resistant to change and automatically think, "Make me learn a new way to do my job? I'm gonna make you PAY for that!"

So this may require getting more bids from newer, more flexible contractors who are willing to try new things?

I agree.

But I'd argue that the magic mouse, while not being a two "button" mouse is still really a two button mouse. There's just no line between buttons. It was a way to have it both ways (and still be "right")
 

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,846
3,779
Atlanta, USA
By all means create your amazing building but there are limits. I think no one is gonna notice those .125 inch gaps or the fact you switched to flat panel glass instead of the curve around that giant building. I mean could you even notice are or circumference that large?

And then there's the maintenance issue. I used to work in a flagship building with lots of fancy glass. It was fine until one of the windows broke. It cost a ton of money to replace one fancy, nonstandard, window and it took months of waiting, since the manufacturer had to restart a special glass-production line just to produce the unit. Presumably they made a few spares while they were at it. :)
 

mrzeigler

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2005
159
3
Pittsburgh
Cupertino is about four or five miles away from the San Andreas fault line, isn't it?

Granted, I'm not a contractor nor do I live near an active fault line, but is it the smartest of ideas to build a $5B building — one in which the exorbitant cost is due to cosmetic and not structural engineering — in such a geologically active zone?
 

Benster

macrumors member
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Huntersville, NC
- Per Jobs' orders, gaps between surfaces should be no more than 1/32 of an inch, far tighter than the typical 1/8 inch standard in U.S. construction.

Are there any "earthquake-proofing" ramifications to having these tight tolerances for gaps between surfaces? I'd hate to see folks get hurt by shattering glass and concrete if there is no "wiggle room" in the design to account for seismic activity.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,084
31,015
But their products aren't perfect, are they? The quality has slipped in the last few years as they've been pressured to increase margins. Looking at my iPad, it's got 2 significant design flaws, both the result of cost-cutting - the buttons are plastic now and the new dock connector is a piece of **** (and still doesn't have strain relief!)

What are the "significant design flaws" on your iPad 2? I ask because you used the word "significant". How are plastic volume buttons a design flaw? They might not look as aesthetically pleasing but that doesn't equate to a design flaw.
 

Squilly

macrumors 68020
Nov 17, 2012
2,260
4
PA
My parents built a house and didn't scrimp on the finish. Their carpenters are cabinet makers by trade and one day when we pointed out that something was just a hair's breadth off level they said it was rare and refreshing to find people who actually cared about quality to that level as most people today want it done fast and cheap...

When they put it on the market their estate agent said it was one of the highest quality finishes (not the most expensive materials) he'd ever seen!

Happened to my parents house when they got theirs built too, but the problem was within the foundation, so had to be fixed. Happened outside the foundation too, didn't get the comments from workers though.
 
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