Stone-throwing girl escapes trial

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by wdlove, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #1
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4744025.stm

    My prayer is that this 11 year old and the boys involved have learned their lesson. An age that it may be in time to turn her around. The boys should not have been throwing the balloons. :(
     
  2. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #2
    I'm not going to lie to you: I've having a lot of trouble working up sympathy for the boy that she nailed with the rock. Way to stick up for yourself, Maribel.
     
  3. FoxyKaye macrumors 68000

    FoxyKaye

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    San Francisco, Terre d'Ange, Bas Lag, Gallifrey
    #3
    Let's not forget the racist cops, either.
     
  4. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #4
    I understand your perspective, but there's a huge difference between an 11 year old girl and an 8 year old boy in size and intellectual development and maturity. An 11 year old should know better than to hit anyone with a 2 pound (almost 1 kg) rock, especially an 8 year old. Chasing after him, pushing him down, etc, would have been wrong but expectable responses. This sounds like a lot more than that to me. :(
     
  5. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #5
    Yes, I didn't mean to excuse their behavior either.
     
  6. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #6
    the article in the local paper here in san francisco said it was the boys who were throwing rocks at here and that she simply threw one back. Sounds OK to me. its not like the kid was that badly hurt anyway. The community was right, if this had been a white kid, there's no way this kid, an 11 year, gets put in a cop car and arrested and put in jail for 5 days.

    The local paper also said the cops totally exaggerated the size of the rock and the injuries suffered. it was apparently smaller than they said by a good margin. 2 lbs is a lot to throw at someone, especially for an 11 year old girl. And the cops said it was like a 4 inch gash, but it was more like an inch. The cops should be ashamed of themselves and frankly I think someone needs discplinary action. nothing about this case justified the reaction from the cops.

    And I'll also say this, just because the 8 year olds maybe "didn't know any better" doesn't make it any less of self defense. Someone is harrasing you, throwing things at you, reacting to that is pretty natural. the attackers age doesn't really matter when it comes to that in my opinion, not when you're talking about kids being mean to each other.
     
  7. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #7
    Admittedly I'm working off of fairly sketchy information, but she was with her brother, and I'll assume he was younger, since she was the one throwing the rocks. A "group" of boys rides by on bikes throwing water balloons at them. How large was the group? Were they all 8-year olds, or just the one she hit?

    We don't know all of the details here, and she very well could have thought she was defending herself and her younger brother against a larger group of bullies, who may have had other things in mind than just water balloons.

    To have the police become involved and threaten felony charges is ridiculous. Where's the misdemeanor charges against the boys throwing water balloons? :rolleyes:
     
  8. kalisphoenix macrumors 65816

    kalisphoenix

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    #8
    If my boys ganged up on a girl and threw water balloons at her (if she didn't explicitly consent), I'd throw a @#$%ing two-pound rock at each damn one of them. What the hell is wrong with parents these days? Your children possess a pack mentality, and should be caged. Good job to that girl for defending herself against the little *****. I feel like sending her an Apple.
     
  9. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #9
    Perhaps the 60GB iPod Photo - I hear it throws real nice...

    ;) :D

    But I agree with you - props to her for defending herself. I can't wait until domestic battery charges are filed against one of my kids because they can't agree on who gets the "good" swing. :rolleyes:
     
  10. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #10
    I don't disagree that the boys on bicycles involved should face consequences for their actions. But her actions are also very serious. Even if she gets "out of" this one, she is going to get in big trouble later if she doesn't develop either the anger management or sense of responsibility skills that are required for her to prevent herself from doing something like this. I spent a week earlier this summer with a cabin full of eight year old boys, and I spent last weekend hanging out with a gang of 11 and 12 year old girls, at two different camps. Just based on my experience, while what the boys did was wrong and should be responded to, her response was not appropriate or expectable, even in light of what they did first.

    I'm assuming that the linked news article is accurate, of course -- if the actual facts are substantially different, I'm open to hearing about that. But it sounds like, from this article, they threw water balloons, not rocks, were substantially younger, that she and her brother neither suffered substantial physical harm from the water balloons nor feared for their lives, and that she then picked up a large rock, and intentionally attacked the boy on the bicycle with it.

    That's the version of the story presented here, and the one I am going off of. My concern is just that all the kids involved are safe, and that they do not end up on a path to committing more serious acts of delinquency or crimes in the future....
     
  11. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

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    Location:
    Michigan
    #11
    This is plain STUPID. The girl should have been told to apologize to the boy, adn the boy and his friends should have apologized to the girl and her brother. For the police to get involved in such a childish issue is stupid. In other words, it could have been resolved by the parents, WITHOUT the police getting involved. BTW, where were the parents when all of this was happening? And why are 8 year old boys riding around on thier bikes unsupervised?? Stupid, stupid, stupid.
     
  12. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #12
    More information here.

    Doesn't sound like a miscreant, or that she was unjustified in trying to defend herself and her younger sibling/friends against these other boys.
     
  13. kalisphoenix macrumors 65816

    kalisphoenix

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    #13
    Pfffft. What the hell kind of childhood did you have?

    "Give me your lunch money, mkrishnan!"
    "No, and you'd better watch yourself; this sort of behavior leads to serious acts of delinquency."
    ".... damn."

    This wasn't an anti-social act she committed, this is hardly a sign of oppositional-defiant disorder, and I sure as hell don't think this is a sign of troubles to come. ****, I got rocks thrown at me when I was a kid by people who are probably doctors now.

    Well, probably not doctors... not anyone from my 'hood :cool:
     
  14. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

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    Jun 3, 2002
    Location:
    Michigan
    #14
    We used to throw them at each other for fun.
    :rolleyes: Of course they weren't two pound river rocks that had knife-edges all around, thrown by skinny eleven year old girls. Then we would have been arrested.
     
  15. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #15
    Criteria A3 for a diagnosis of Conduct Disorder is: "has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g. a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)" In my copy of the DSM, it's on page 98.

    Small stones would not meet the criteria, but if the police officers' report is accurate, then the rock she used would. Think about how easily you can pick up and throw a two pound rock at another person. It isn't something you do in passing.

    Meh. I'm done arguing this point. Since it seems no permanent injury was sustained, my main concern is the one that I stated before -- that this does not lead to more serious acts of violence or crime on the part of any of the children involved. If that makes me a wuss in your book, I really could care less.
     
  16. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    #16
    I think this is an example of "over-reaction."

    However.

    If the police did NOT do this, would they be sued by the parents of they boy that was hit with the rock? They probably wanted to save their asses in this lawsuit-for-all country we live in.
     
  17. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #17
    One can argue about the serious physical harm in this case, and whether any was intended, and no doctor in the world makes a diagnosis based on a single incident not put into context. I mean, if I use a rock to fend of a mugger, does that mean I have the disorder. Of course not. Nothing is as cut or dry as that.

    There is no evidence that this girl ahs done anything like thsi in the past, or will in the future, so worrying about some disorder she may have seems really premature. Sure, we all hope she doesn't have it, but it seems unlikely she does anyway. Kids get into trouble and do stupid things sometimes. it doesn't have to be a disease every time.
     
  18. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #18
    I didn't say it was. But doesn't it make sense to identify cases of children at risk, and do something *before* it becomes a disease? If everyone reacts like the people in this thread who want to give her a high five, and buy her a cookie, for throwing a large stone at a little boy, don't you think that's reinforcing? And if she does do it again, and you respond in the same way, don't you think she'll keep doing it? And then she'll come to my clinic, and I *will* have to diagnose her with Conduct Disorder. I don't want that any more than you do.

    I hate the concept of throwing away children, or believing any child is a bad child who is incapable of doing good things. But I also hate the idea of standing by and saying it is premature to do something about a child in danger of poor outcomes, because something serious happened only once.
     
  19. cooknwitha macrumors 6502a

    cooknwitha

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    Location:
    London
    #19
    I read this story yesterday and was stunned. Am I the only one who used to throw stones at people?! And I've turned out okay. It's this crazy thing called "being a kid".

    And as someone mentioned early, where's the punishment for the boys who provoked the attack? Surely a month's community service?! Oh no, wait, they're kids! We all do stupid things.

    This is a case of "Only in America" but it quickly becomes apparent that even Americans are thinking this is stupid. :)
     
  20. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    #20
    Glad to see that this girl is standing up for herself. Hopefully all those kids went home and got a nice long woopin' from their Dads. Whatever happened to being nice to the fairer sex?
     
  21. mpw Guest

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    #21
    What your take on the gang of boys who attacked her? Are they diseased?
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #22
    Since when did rock throwing become political?

    Where does the National Rock Association stand on the issue of arming oneself with a rock? For self-defense purposes only of course mind you. Are we in danger of losing our right to keep and bear rocks?
     
  23. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #23
    I don't know about you but my momma didn't bear no rocks, a couple of knuckleheads maybe but that story is for another day!
     
  24. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #24
    Hard to tell what's fact and what's not. One report had the boys throwing rocks as well as water balloons.

    Regardless, it seems clear that there was a group of boys against just the girl and her younger sibling. It also seems clear that the boys started the trouble.

    First off, I doubt the girl had any idea that the sum of all acts against her would be taunts and water balloons.

    Second, if you're part of a group who picks on just one individual, shame on your sorry butt, to begin with. Whatever reaction you get is pretty much that individual's choice in the matter.

    The boys were in the wrong, and IMO the girl merely defended herself and her sibling. Officialdom over-reacted in a really foolish fashion...

    I've read that the ending is that the girl and the injured attacker are to sit down with the parents and discuss the matter. My hope is that she doesn't get the message that she shouldn't defend herself against hostile actions against her, in later years.

    'Rat
     

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