Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by edesignuk, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
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    Location:
    London, England
    #1
    To all the people telling others to hop ship to Dell if they’re not happy with yesterday’s keynote…

    As you may have noticed, my posts in threads relating to yesterdays keynote have not been very positive. Very negative in fact. I know I am not alone.

    So what did we get that I should be so happy about? I now have to pay to update iPhoto (previously free), there is a smaller, more expensive (price per gig) iPod, and that’s about it! Does this give me the right to complain? Of course it does! Why shouldn’t I? I was very disappointed, I hoped for some sort of update to the PowerMac, it didn’t have to be a lot, dual 2.2Ghz would have been enough. And what about the poor old iMac? Sticking larger and larger screens on them does not bring them up to standard with similarly priced AMD/Intel PC’s, they need an update!
    This was the 20th Anniversary MacWorld, I don’t think it’s to much to expect to have something of significance announced, when it doesn’t happen, I will be disappointed and moan about it.

    After having said that, you all (well some of you) come along and tell me and anyone who is of my opinion to “go and buy a Dell if you’re not happy”. Erm, yeah, great response, thanks for that. :rolleyes:
    Because I am not happy doesn’t mean I will sell my existing Mac, give away my iPod, and become a dedicated Wintel fanboy.

    I just don’t understand you people who are so dedicated to Apple that they can do no wrong in your eyes. Apple are a large corporate company, who like every other company have a goal. To make money! :eek: It’s true, they are not your best friend, they are not perfect, and there is no need to go on the defensive when someone complains that they haven’t delivered the goods.

    [/rambling]

    Discuss…:D
     
  2. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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  3. virividox macrumors 601

    virividox

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    #3
    you cant make everyone happy, i mean some macworlds were great ie last years where i fell in love with my powerbook. this year was a mix...i mean they gotta make a buck right so i guess we gotta fork up some money for quality apps, maybe we want apps individually and maybe if we do write to apple they might offer the apps individualy cant just get mad and not try to work it out
     
  4. Megaquad macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    #4
    iPhoto is a product in which there was spent lot of money and work hours to develop it. It's best app out there and it shouldn't be free.

    You would like 2.2 GHz PowerMac huh?
    That would be pretty stupid you know, from marketing point too.
    Dual 2 G5 is still pretty good and if new ones aren't released that means Apple cannot release them yet because they haven't cleared all existing ones and/or IBM can't give them faster processors yet.

    iMac.. okay 1.25 GHz model is pretty slow and expensive but thats Motorola's fault not Apple's. Rumors are that G5 iMacs are coming out soon anyway.
    If you don't like it, don't buy it, there's no point in complaining about something Apple cannot change.
    Only time when people should really complain is when they get faulty products.


    Apple makes best computing experience in the world, and that makes them not an ordinary company.
    They change our lives, and they deserve to be payed for goods they create.
     
  5. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    #5
    I agree. I can;t stand it when you are eguing with someone and they say "if macs aren't good enough then get a dell!"
     
  6. junior macrumors 6502a

    junior

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    #6
    I'm not sure how many negative responses you'll get now that you've prohibited the use of the 'fine, go get a Dell then!' response.;)
    I think what makes Apple different from any other company in the world is the fact that Apple, and Jobs himself, is followed like a religion. No matter how awful the state of the company becomes, no matter how pathetic their product value (price vs performance. And weren't they cr*p at one point) might get, people continue to support them and buy theur products.
    Fact is, while people were still supporting this company, they released a new OS, which at the time wasn't very good, but became brilliant starting from .2, and also released new apps bundled together, and those were the iApps. By the way, I know they had it for OS 9 at the same period but you get my drift.
    So the loyal supporters had something to be cheerful about. While hardware was still behind the PC world, Apple, with the support of the loyal customers and the money they've made from their Mac sales, managed to make some very nice apps only available to Mac users, and FREE.
    I think this is why Apple customers have the right to complain to/about Apple, and I think Apple should be taking note. After all, these loyal customers are the ones that kept them in the business in the first place. No other company could have survived.
    So many extra charges are appearing now. iTunes is free to both Mac users AND windows users. I honestly believe that customers will start to feel that they aren't as close to Apple as they were in the past, because slowly but surely, special privileges for Mac loyalists are fading out, and more and more, things are starting to come at extra charges.
    I think people ponted out that to stay up-to-date with the basic Apple offerings now, you have to spend something like $300 per year. Now that is quite a lot of money in my view.
     
  7. junior macrumors 6502a

    junior

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    #7

    Megaquad, that is taboo on this thread. 'Go get a Dell' and 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' are very similar, wouldn't you agree?:rolleyes:
     
  8. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #8
    I agree that it shouldn't be free, but to bundle it with other apps that can't be used by many people is a little much. How about pricing the iApps separately as well? Maybe $20 each for iPhoto and iMovie. $35 each for iDVD and GarageBand. I would definately pick up iPhoto for $20 and I'd think about iMovie for another $20.

    How is it Moto's fault that Apple won't put faster G4s into the iMac? 1.33ghz and 1.4ghz G4s do exist. They could easily be put into the iMac.
     
  9. edesignuk thread starter Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #9
    Yet up to now it always has been. Offering something for free, then starting to charge for it out of the blue is not a good idea. If Microsoft did it you'd be ripping them appart. (for example they are going to charge for FAT file system usage, everyone here had something to say about that)
    I don't "want" a 2.2GHz G5, I want more! What I said was 2.2GHz would have done, at least it would show some progress in the right direction.
    And who chooses not just to put 1.6GHz G5 (or less if they are available, I don't know) in to the iMacs? Apple. Motorola suck, we all no it, so don't use them!
    Thanks, I won't buy it/them. Lucky for me I am not in the market for a new anything fro mApple right now, I am very happy with what I have. But if I had been waiting until MWSF for a new iMac/PowerMac I'd be even more unhappy.
    Here we go getting all emotional...it's a computer!

    edit: mistakes corrected.
     
  10. ThomasJefferson macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    Virginia
    #10
    I am also tired of the Dell comment. There are a number of people posting here that will allow no criticism of Apple at all. On another thread, which was designed to discuss iPod and iBook problems, the trolls jumped in immediately to hijack the discussion. One argued that the squeeking in the palm rest should be ignored (obviously he doesn't have to think, compose, type while listening to it) another argued that the gap in the plastic was a feature!

    Hmmm .. the gap in the plastic is a feature? Having owned Mac since 1984, I never heard that one before.

    Perhaps that will replace, "go buy a Dell"?
     
  11. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #11
    i realize you said "think about," but if you are going to pay $40 for iPhoto/iMovie, what's $10 more to get iDVD and GarageBand?

    if those apps were individually priced at $20 per (except iTunes), I'm sure a lot of us would have said "How can 4 apps be $20 each but $50 together?! I'm pissed that I now have to pay $20 for iPhoto when it was free!!" :D

    i agree that the keynote yesterday was a bit of a letdown. xserve and raid cater to a smaller subset and an upgraded lowest iPod and mini iPod introduction in no way compares to last year's 12/17" PB announcement... my only hope is that apple has done away with limiting big announcements to expos and that we'll see more randomly timed updates from here on.

    by the way, yes, offering something for free initially and later charging for them is not very consumer friendly, but it has to be done at some point. if the product is good enough, then people will get them even if they are charged for them. apple must decide sometime that they are confident enough in their iApps that they are worth charging for - that the revenue from sales will outweigh the unhappy former iApp users...

    i contend that people complain about M$ because they often (but not always, and i'm sure apple does this to some degree) offer inferior products for free or at a steep discount simply to drive competitors away. plus M$ sucks anyway. :D
     
  12. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #12
    As for the Keynote - what's the big deal. Steve mentioned that this was going to be a fantastic year. Not a fantastic key note, but year.

    Its starting out small, maybe it will end with a bang :D

    I think ranting, like all things, is good in moderation. We all know there have been more exciting key notes, but its not the last one. And that Apple has changed their policy of releasing all the hardware at the same time as a key note. So as for the new iMacs and the RevB G5s - well, we get to wait.

    D
     
  13. mj_1903 macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #13
    May I ask, why are you upset at what Apple released?

    Are you a shareholder in Apple Computer Inc? Are you one of the CEO's? Are you the CFO looking at your bottom line for this year? Are you an Apple employee?

    I don't really think its sensible being upset because Apple released only a smaller iPod and iPhoto is no longer 'free' as the wind.

    The iPod is Apple's product, not yours. They will do with it what they please (this coming from a person who sells software for iPod's) and being upset about them is quite silly.

    As for iPhoto, take it up with Steve or anyone at Apple if you want. I don't care that its part of a software set now, its Apple's prerogative to do what they want with their software. I am going to be happy to pony up the money if I need that software, as I would for anything else. I don't expect thousands and thousands of dollars of software development time to be given to me free all the time. It's an incentive to buy a Mac, not a given of being a Mac owner.

    This has affected my life, a little. I would love to get a G5 and am waiting for the next Rev. My PowerBook simply is not handling the software development that I am doing these days and an upgrade would make me a lot more productive, but I will wait for Apple to give me something near what I want and won't get upset because its not here right now.

    Your life was not changed by these announcements, so don't take it too seriously. As for the Dell comments, well, it is your choice of platform. If you want to make a difference, go work at 1 Infinite Loop and make a difference, or keep buying those Macs and iLife and let Apple do what they think is right.
     
  14. TranceClubMusic macrumors regular

    TranceClubMusic

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    #14
     

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  15. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #15
    this is the same point raised elsewhere... not having a stake in the company does not mean you can't mildly complain or discuss or disagree about their product policies.

    yes, apple can do whatever it pleases. as mac fans, we can talk and think of them as we please too. (as long as it's in moderation...)

    look, many of us aren't a shareholder or a paid staff in professional sport teams. many of us still root for them, discuss about them and complain about their mistakes... why? because we are a fan.

    as mr. anderson said, i think ranting in moderation does no harm.
     
  16. edesignuk thread starter Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #16
    @mj_1903

    I think you've missed the point. No, what they do doesn't effect me. And I'm hardly "upset". But I would like to see them out in front in the computing world, there for I want to see newer, faster, improved hardware frequently.
     
  17. mj_1903 macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #17
    Which IMHO is not a good idea. Fine, I like Apple and my next computer(s) will be Apple computers (and I'm a switcher) but I think the semi-religious aspects to the following is quite dangerous for further market growth in that it can quite easily give the wrong impression to PC users.
     
  18. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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  19. mj_1903 macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #19
    That is sport. :)

    I do support my country heavily in the supporting arena and barrack for them whenever I can (not very often I might add) but I will not tell them how to run their test team for cricket, or the rugby side or Ian Thorpe how to swim better. They are professionals and they want to win, much the same as Apple wants to win and we can see that happening.

    Oh, so do I, don't worry at all. You did state though that you were very disappointed and then decided to vocalize it with many negative posts.

    I think that type of feedback is misguided when we actually look at Apple.

    Apple consists of around 10,000 employees. Around 600 work on iLife, .Mac and Mac OS X (Darwin, Cocoa, Carbon, Quicktime, etc). Around 700 work on the hardware which includes everything from the XServe to the iMac to the iPod and the pro mouse and keyboard. With these employees alone, Apple does not have the resources to churn out updates at a rapid rate that you are demanding. If they could, they would, but simply look at the mess that Panther was on release and you will see that pushing deadlines does not work at Apple.

    Remember also that many of these employees have not have a pay rise since 1998 and it puts it in further perspective. Take into account that many are overworked by their bosses to achieve Panther or the XServe update and you will see that quality is slipping and deadlines are passing.

    I think its unfair to be criticizing Apple for moving as fast as they humanly can. They definitely need to gain market share so they can raise the wages being paid, so they can hire more engineers for the Mac OS X team which is struggling and hire more hardware guys. They are not super human. They will do what they can when they can. They cannot concurrently design an iBook, iMac, PowerMac, PowerBook, and XServe update for a new release every 2 months. Its physically impossible.

    Now this is not an attack on you, but it is my feelings coming out. I have a lot of friends at Apple who I see suffering under these insane deadlines. I can see their work suffering (Panther, iMovie 3, PowerBook) and I don't want them to have to be pushed anymore. Apple are winning but they can't win at the rate that you or I want them to win.

    Now, what do I really want? I would love Apple to get its 4.5 billion and hire some more engineers. Simply take 1 billion out and that hires 1000 new software developers for 5 years. Would it be worth it? I have no idea, but I would love to see Apple do it. Am I saying they should? No.

    No offence was meant in any of the above, I'm slightly tired (1am) and I have been debugging some crappy code for the last 7hrs that I really shouldn't be debugging but I owe it to someone.
     
  20. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

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    Location:
    East Coast
    #20
    I deliberately set the prices that way to get my point accross. I think most people understand the concept that if you buy a bundle, you get a discount. I call it the Happy Meal concept. In the Happy Meal concept, if all I want is the Big Mac, I can buy the Big Mac for $2.30 rather than paying $4.50 for the fries and coke.

    In the above case, if iPhoto and iMovie were $20 a piece, I'd probably spend the extra $10 to get iDVD and GB, just in case I acquired a G4.
     
  21. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #21
    Consumers have a right to gripe and they do it with the wallet and rumor sites. like its been said Apple could wrap a 68030 cpu in a new machine and there would be people yelling at the top of their lungs how great Apple is. These folk are simply blind, stupid or Apple workers. Anyways in feb 2001 you could buy a Imac with 500 mhz g3 or powermac with 500 mhz g4, today its a joke top imac 1.25 g4 top powermac 4 ghz worth of G5 cpu. Apple cant seem to fix this just as they are struggling to fix the ever smaller market share. would i buy a Dell? i dont thinks so but iam sure going to point out mistakes by Apple when they are screwing up. Apple has been screwing up.
     
  22. junior macrumors 6502a

    junior

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    #22

    No, the point was that the only thing that kept Apple alive till now was religous following. The reason why they can charge a premium for their hardware and still get away with charging extra for software is the religous following.
    Due to these loyal 3% of the market, the iLife package will sell well. Even those complaining, including me (probably), will end up buying everything Apple because of this reason.
    However, I think Apple can only push it so far before people start thinking that God has gone insane and that perhaps changing their allegience to the Devil in the Wintel world might be better off.
    I will continue to support Apple, but I, like everyone else, definitely have the right to complain whenever we please.
     
  23. jayscheuerle macrumors 68020

    jayscheuerle

    #24
    Like the audience in the "1984" commercial? :cool:
     
  24. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #25
    Sure, the ultimate answer is not Dell and people shouldn't throw it at you for everything. It's frightening that they have such mindshare.

    As far as iPhoto goes, many people were complaining about a free iPhoto. Now that they shaped it into a speedier application, there are plenty more complaining about it being a paid application. Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense that they've switched but it is consistent. Maybe they should have changed the name to Starving Photographer or something. :D

    I'm quite pleased by the announcements--the G5 Xserve being the main and most necessary announcement. Getting Apple into more corporations is so important. The iPod minis will induce more people to buy the current iPod line because of the small price difference and Apple will reduce the price of the mini line later. The size and colours would suggest the fashion-concious will be the few to buy them at the current, inflated price.
     

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