Strawmen

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #1
    Is it just me or is the word STRAWMAN being used way too much and often incorrectly in PRSI? Just saw another post where the poster just wrote STRAWMAN in response to an argument and I felt, hmmm, your strawman argument makes no sense. Maybe I'm just cranky cause I didn't win that half a billion dollars on Friday. But my odds......
     
  2. MorphingDragon, Apr 1, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012

    macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
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    #2
    Name names.

    Do It! You know you want to.

    The strawman fallacy is to simply argue with a misrepresentation of the original argument. If I'm thinking of what you're thinking of, it is most definitely a generalisation and a misrepresentation of the original argument.
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #3
    Straw man arguments do get thrown about a lot around here.

    I have nothing against that being pointed out.
     
  4. macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #4
    Yeah, I'm also surprised at your inability to spot one like the one you quoted in the Santorum thread. You know, the issue where he DIDN'T use the n-word.
     
  5. Mac'nCheese, Apr 1, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012

    thread starter macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #5
    Naming names would be a forum violation and I can't afford a third strike man! I can't do it!
    Ok, give me a minute to check out that thread....

    ----------

    That was quick. For someone who is trying to insult me for missing the point, I'm sorry to point out that you are the one who missed the point. More details in the other thread...
     
  6. macrumors 68020

    Liquorpuki

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
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    #6
    On this board I see a ton of strawmen, red herrings, proof by obfuscation, loaded language, and argument hedging. It's just a lot of people don't realize they normally use f'd up logic

    A few times I've pointed out the fallacy only to see the other guy deny it repeatedly and get all butthurt

    If you want a good thinking exercise, read through a book like Pirie's "How to Win Every Argument" then see how many fallacies you can spot on this forum. Makes you a better debater.
     
  7. macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #7
    I see this alot with a certain poster whose username involves a "/"...
     
  8. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #8
    Today's pet peeve is posters who just post something like "fail" or "fallacy" without any facts to show why. Just "no it's not" and they're done.
     
  9. macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #9
    You mean just like this post?
     
  10. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #10
    No.
     
  11. macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #11
    Yes
     
  12. macrumors 6502

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    #12
  13. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

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    Feb 9, 2010
    #13
    Not at all. I had a point. I vented about something. Just saying "fail" is not adding anything to the discussion. Its not bringing up anything new. Its like the people who instead of just hitting the thumbs up button posts "this" or "I agree". What's the point?
     
  14. macrumors 68000

    Happybunny

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    #14
    Maybe. :D
     
  15. macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #15
    To annoy the **** out of the mods.

    Ask again later.
     
  16. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    UK
    #16
    I suspect it's a cunning plan to win the argument - as for some reason whenever I see/hear the word strawman it makes me think of the Wicker Man. Then I get thinking about Brit Eckland and 'that' dance and guess what - then I completely forget the really important and salient point I was going to make...
     
  17. macrumors 6502

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #17
    In a speech today, Romney used the "strawman" line regarding something Obama said earlier this week. I found that interesting considering this thread. Maybe Romney reads MacRumors? :)
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #18
    I agree.*

    Of course, some people will use it incorrectly and even throw the phrase and hope nobody notices it's a dud, but pointing out that an argument is based on a logical fallacy is part of a debate.






    *(And I'm sure I've used them myself).
     
  19. macrumors 68020

    localoid

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Location:
    America's Third World
    #19
    Dogmatic assertions of straw man arguments, misplaced concreteness, and other evil products of cognitive flawed minds don't bug me nearly as much as topic drift does. Won't someone please think of the children?

     
  20. macrumors 68020

    Liquorpuki

    Joined:
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    Location:
    City of Angels
    #20
    I know I have but I've gotten a lot better though. Part of the reason is it's easy for straw men to get in the mix when the person you're arguing with isn't communicating coherently, is hedging his argument, has poor reading comprehension, or doesn't pay attention to context. Sometimes that person is you and you don't realize you're doing it.

    a straw man is a form of topic drift though. it's also probably the most subtle
     

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