Study shows Bush supporters aren't living in the real world

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    ...as if we needed any confirmation... :rolleyes:


    Article

    Study

    That last question actually is quite disturbing. When I hear Bush supporters talking, some of what they say sounds so uninformed that I can't help feeling a guilty twinge of intellectual elitism. But this study seems to show that they frequently don't know what they're talking about.

    I guess that's why this willful ignorance of reality is just so frustrating and crazy-making. I mean, cripes, people make Jimmy Carter out to be the biggest screw-up president ever. Bush, on the other hand, is such a f***-up that it's just unbelievable, and yet he stands an even shot at being re-elected.
     
  2. the_mole1314 macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Thanks for the survey, that's going to help a lot with my civics project!
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    I find it hard to believe that, given the amount of commentary about Bush not being popular outside the US, his backers really believe that hs policies ARE popular.

    Same for the WMD: There's reasonable evidence to support the notion that Saddam had programs, and it's fact that he had used chemical WMD stuff.

    This sort of "study" is too much like the TV interviews after a tornado. 1. Find a mobile home park. 2. Find the fat woman with the muumuu and the pink hair curlers. 3. Ask her what she thinks about the whole deal.

    What the heck. Kerry supporters seem to think he'll end out-sourcing, restore the world community's regard for us, and pacify the terrorists so they won't do Bad Things...

    :), 'Rat
     
  4. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #4
    This has been evident for a long time. Polls have consistently shown that about 50% of US citizens think WMD have been found and a considerable number think Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

    I guess what's new is that this survey indicates that most of these people are likely Bush voters. I guess that also makes sense - these are the people most likely to believe the intentionally misleading b.s. that comes out of the Whitehouse.

    Doesn't make it any less depressing, though.
     
  5. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #5
    That's right, if you don't like the conclusions of the study, then the methodology must have been all wrong.
     
  6. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #6
    Holy **** I can't believe we have to go through this again.

    Saddam had chemical and biological weapon programmes like South Africa has nuclear weapons. It was a reversed, dead system with no cache and no immediate chance of revival.

    Iraq and Iran used chemical weapons against each other in a particularly vicious war that took place from 1980-88.

    It's 2003 when we invade.
     
  7. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #7
    My parents are quite normal and intelligent people. My father started and ran two businesses and my mother raised four children pretty well. They are both college-educated. They volunteer in the community now that they are retired and genuinely appreciate America for allowing them the life they have. They are also Republican.

    At their house when I visit, they always have FOX news on, and they believe that Clinton was a disgrace as a President and that Bush shows the proper leadership skills in dealing with a restless world. They hate Kerry.

    Now, what would make two otherwise reasonable and intelligent people believe this, with substantial evidence to the contrary? Well, I specualate the following:

    1. My parents are both in their mid-sixties and perhaps still believe that the News is impartial and truthful, at least to the degree it was several decades ago. In some ways they do not understand modern America any better than they understand how to program a VCR.

    2. My parents have always been Republicans and they are straight-forward people. They enjoy tax-cuts and agree with much of traditional conservative ideology. They loved Reagan because he was so likeable, but didn't live here for his terms to feel any effects of his policies. I believe they like Bush for the same reason and do not feel the effects of his policies either, or blame them on the Democrats. As my parents came from working-class families, they have always had a certain distrust/dislike of Intellectual/Liberal types, although I cannot comment on the psychology there.

    3. As Republicans, I feel they have no choice but to follow Bush, because the alternative would be Kerry. I beleive the desire to not vote Democratic trumps any legitimate criticism of Bush in their minds. See cognitive dissonance. For people like my parents who have had the same ideology/partisanship for decades, I beleive it is too difficult for them to realize that an individual under the banner of their Party might be a poor performer and deserves to be replaced by someone else of another Party. They will use any amount of rationalization to keep from admitting that the man they chose is doing a poor job and how that might threaten their ideological underpinnings.

    This is all speculation, of two people I intimately know and by-and-large respect. They are not analgous to trailer park denizens with rollers, I beleive they are analgous to a much broader-spectrum of the American Public. I wrote this out in an attempt to explain the reasons why there is such a disconnect between reality and politics for many people and why I believe the validity of the study posted.
     
  8. davecuse macrumors 6502

    davecuse

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    #8
    I've gotten into a few political discussions lately with friends who plan to vote for Bush, mainly because I just wanted to know why the hell they would want to do that. I thought that the most interesting question that came out of the talk was, "if Bush wins, what do you envision the end game being in the whole mess we have gotten ourselves into in Iraq". The two who gave me responses both fully believe that we need to continue our efforts in the middle east and go into Iran.

    I was pretty shocked by this view, as it's one I do not agree with at all, and these are pretty well educated guys. I don't know if they are living in a different world... but they certainly do have a different idea of how to go about things than I do.
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #9
    well, for anyone who believes the best thing to do in the ME is for the US to take the countries out one by one, bush is their guy. wolfowitz is their guy, actually, but he's part of the bush administration.

    those guys might get their wish. somehow i doubt, in the end, it's really what they want...
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    I feel sick and tired of feeling like the only one who has a grasp on how awful war is, how stupid it is to attempt colonisation of the Middle East, how ugly the American Pride movement is, how easy it is for racist ideologies to slip into mainstream thought... ad naseum.

    I'm so fed up that I'm willing to just sit back and say "**** 'em." If the American people want to be so ****ing stupid, arrogant and hateful as to cheerfully and boastfully go down the avenue of everything Christ taught against, let 'em live with the clouds they're seeding when it's a ********* raining down upon their pride.

    We deserve who we elect. If Bush is what the American people want, let 'em have the *******.

    I'll move to a country that doesn't think the Christian equivalent of the Taliban should rule them.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    It's what they want until they or their child/niece or nephew/neighbor comes back in a body bag.

    The only hope is to get out as soon as possible and let the Iraqis choose their own future. Isn't that what freedom is all about?
     
  12. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #12
    Well said.

    "Christian equivalent of the Taliban." I like that. Yeah, we seem to be the pot calling the kettle black.
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    To those of us who lived through the Vietnam era, what's happening with public opinion today ain't nothing new. In fact it's depressingly familiar. In 1972 a majority of Americans still believed that Richard Nixon would bring us "peace with honor."
     
  14. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #14
    You'll appreciate this op-ed piece from today's LA Times.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-gabler24oct24,1,4115271.story

     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #15
    It's a fact that the reason we went into this war was for ties to Al Qaida and WMDs. Neither of which is true. There were tenuous ties to Al Qaida at best, and there was more evidence saying there weren't WMDs than there was enough to wage a war. There are no WMDs. Bush, Cheney, etc. have all said it, yet they have not admitted to a single mistake or to the poor planning. There is no reason for this war. We should have been fighting the terrorists where they were, and that was not Iraq when we invaded. Saddam did not attack us, Bin Laden did, and yet he runs free. Even Rove admits we are creating more terrorists than we are killing.

    I was watching a report earlier, and a women said she was voting for Bush because he stopped Saddam from attacking us again. :rolleyes: How do you argue with logic like that?

    Some of us are realistic about our expectations about what Kerry can and can't do. That's the thing though, at least we can criticize him when he screws up. Like we did with Clinton. With Bush, it's all or nothing. I choose nothing.

    Do you honestly think Bush is doing a good job?
     
  16. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #16
    With the Bushies and Kerry, Kennedy and Clinton on record after 9/11 about WMDs in Iraq, why wouldn't folks believe? Folks here seem to forget that one reason for all this shakeup in our intel services is the bad info that was given TPTB. I guess it's okay for KK& to misled by bad info, but not Bush?

    I have a raised eyebrow about this study BECAUSE of the publicity about other countries not liking Bush's policies. I dunno. I know a fair number of people who are aware but don't give a hoot about the views of such as Germany and France. The G&F views are to be expected; we're messing in their profit-puddle of selling chemical and nuclear technology into the mideast.

    'Rat
     
  17. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #17
    Again, I'll have to repeat the facts and logic expressed repeatedly here:

    1) Bush & co. selectively gathered, prepared and screened the intel/info that they presented to Congress and the American people.

    2) Others were misled by (Bush's) bad info, but Bush was the ultimately the one who insisted upon making the very monumental and unprecendented choice of invading a nation which had done absolutely nothing to us nor had the capabilities of doing us harm.

    You really think the general population in any nation gives a **** or even knows about what its private companies do internationally? Did the American people care that Halliburton made deals with the Axis of Evil while the current Vice President of the United States was at the helm?

    These sentiments are such piles of crap I don't even know why I'm wasting my time on them; they've been debunked repeatedly on these forums, but just won't die.
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #18
    The problem was not so much the "bad info", more the way the "bad info" was manipulated BEFORE it got to anyone outside the WH. I'm sure that among the info coming in were many unsubstantiated pieces of rubbish, vague rumors and hearsay: it's up to the backroom boys in the WH which pieces of info are given credence.

    Germany and France - your "Axis of Evil" - do not constitute the bulk of opposition to this war: hadn't you noticed? Even in the loyal old UK, we're not exactly blissful. The major entry requirements for the "Iraq was a Good Idea" club seem to be
    (a) to be American, preferably Republican,
    (b) to be in total denial, and
    (c) to be willfully and woefully misinformed.
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #19
    IJ, have you heard John Fogerty's new song Deja Vu (All Over Again)? All of this is maddening to those of us who struggled to stop these mistakes 30 plus years ago and see it being replayed before our eyes.
     
  20. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #20
    well after all the people in spain+ italy etc. never really were behind the US ...the politicians were ... i just to ask the italians i know personally from university...the words they are saying about berlusconi are far from 'nice'and the next election is pretty much decided

    and those polls are made by normal phones as well so in reality the opposition is much stronger (yes even in poland)
    some governments decided like their people wanted (this even includeds our %&/?§ of Chancellor) others didn't
     
  21. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #21
    Yeah, I'm sure Richard Clarke works for the French. You'd think the guy who warned us about 9/11 in August while the President was on vacation would be the guy they listened to about the Iraq thing. Too bad they did the exact opposite. Oops. Well, I'm sure it was justified and will turn out ok... Oops again.
     
  22. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #22
    Only GWBush invaded Iraq. The other people were concerned about WMD, rightly so, but did not invade. You can not posit them all as equal. THere were other options besides invasion.

    GWBush invaded Iraq. After the invasion 380 tons of high explosives were stolen because the US did not guard the site. They knew about the site but planning was so bad they did nothing. Now new terrorists created by this war have at their disposal 40 tractor trailers of this stuff. One pound can blow up a plane.

    Who ivaded Iraq? Who should take some responsibility for their actions? Even if it was an "honest" mistake (which it was not) Bush should still step down.

    Thousands dead.
    many more thousands maimed
    new terrorists created
    high exposives released to those terrorists
    oil at $55/barrel

    bush apologists frantically look for some new reason to justify his mistakes. try to blame anyone else...

    It's becoming more clear, by the way, that Clinton's policy of containment was working. Bush's plan of invasion just spawed more terrorists.
     
  23. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #23
    If Bush and the neocons were passive recipients of bad intelligence we could all agree that it was just one big giant failure on the part of the world's spooks. However, the Bushies took the information and actively distorted and highlighted the threat to move the nation to war. It is the hight of hypocrisy on the part of the Bush administration to blame their "mistake" on WMDs and ties to al Qaeda on the same intelligence agencies that, while they over-hyped some of their weapons estimates, cautioned against invasion. KK&C and many other politicians worldwide made the mistake of believing the overestimation of the threat posed by Saddam; only Bush & Blair and their friends lied in order to start a war. A war they had been planning and promoting for over a decade.
     
  24. Steradian macrumors 6502

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    #24
    That womans vote is as good as mine, or yours, right? (not counting electorial college BS etc etc)
     
  25. bourbonbreath macrumors newbie

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