Switch Back? Need help with OS X...

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by 3-22, Oct 19, 2004.

  1. 3-22 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    #1
    Well I went and switched to a nice Dual G5 2Ghz about a year ago. I have been a PC/Windows/Linux user with some brief periods using Mac's with OS 8. I decided to jump for iTunes and the iLife suite. But the love affair is waning... Perhaps the readers here might have some ideas on the issues below...

    - I really have a hard time with the interface on Aqua. The biggest problem is mouse movement, I just can't get used to the mouse acceleration curve. I know a lot of users probably don't even notice it, but I work on a PC at work all day and struggle on my Mac at night. I always seem to miss or over shoot items I'm aiming for. I installed the Microsoft IntelliMouse drivers and that helped some. I know it's not liked by many here but I would prefer no acceleration just linear acceleration. (So please don't just tell me to get used to it.) I tried USB Overdrive but could not find the correct settings that felt "right". Any other ideas?

    - Can I make the window buttons any bigger? I feel like I have to aim at the window close, max, and min buttons it's not effortless for me. Also in other buttons on the toolbar for example it seems like you have to click dead in the center if you are slightly off like near the edge it doesn't register.

    - I find the Finder very awkward. I'm always highlighting files I want to move, and moving files I want to highlight. I also miss the XP style status bar that shows the amount of space the files or selected files take up. I know this can sometimes be inaccurate with folders and such but it's still nice. Is there a free/shareware app that adds this? Any suggestions for using Finder, 3rd party tools that enhance, or alternatives to finder entirely? I'm ok with the Dock, I'm not exactly crazy about it but it seems to work.

    - Text highlighting seems likes it possessed sometimes. I never know if I'm going to highlight the word, sentence, etc.

    - Is there a way to view the internals of ZIP files with out extracting everything? What if I only want one file out of a very large zip file?

    Any ideas? Any help would be appreciated....
     
  2. michaelrjohnson macrumors 68020

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    #2
    Conveniently for you, you've hit upon some of the only real justified complaints that people have with OS X, but like you may have heard (or read) before, some of it is just a fundamental difference between the OS. If they were exactly the same, then what's the point?

    I suppose this hasn't been a whole lot of help, but if you clarify a few of your problems, we may be able to help you find a solution.
     
  3. jeremy.king macrumors 603

    jeremy.king

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    #3
    A couple thoughts.

    A decent finder replacement is Path Finder. You could always try it out.

    To list the files in a zip archive, you can use the unzip command in terminal with the -l (thats an "el") flag. To learn how to use this, type "man unzip" in Terminal.

    For some of you other concerns, i would suggest your learn more keyboard shortcuts (any power user would agree). A decent list is here http://www.uark.edu/compserv/softsys/macintosh/macos/osx/osxkeybd.html
     
  4. apFeLgELiEbTer macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    #4
    I find the Finder very awkward. I'm always highlighting files I want to move, and moving files I want to highlight.​
    My biggest gripe with the functionality is when you click on an icon and it automatically assumes that you want to rename the file. I would wipe out entire file names without even realizing it. Is there any way to turn that off with a hack or a TSR? Or can someone at least explain it's purpose?

    If I ever loose it and go on an east coast penknife stabbing frenzy, I will blame it on this... :p
     
  5. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #5
    Clicking on an icon won't do this, clicking on the NAME of the file will.

    I find this a pretty typical problem with Windows users using a Mac. They click on the filename to drag/etc and the Finder thinks you want to change the file name.
    This is just one of those fundamental differences betwixt the Mac OS and Windows OS.
     
  6. 3-22 thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    #6
    Thanks for the suggestions. I agree I should probably spend some time learning the keyboard shortcuts.

    Any ideas on the mouse acceleration curve??? That is really what bugs me. (Yes, I know most people think it's better in OS X)
     
  7. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #7
    Having been a life-long Apple/Mac user, mouse acceleration doesn't even come into play as an issue for me.. but this does seem to be consistently a question/problem amongst Switchers/Windows users.

    In the past, I've suggested using Kensington MouseWorks to people, as it has some control for de/accelerating cursor movement.

    It's worth a shot..

    On the point of trouble with buttons, I think another Windows-centric problem I've see with Switchers/Windows users, is the basic principle of the cursor is different between the OSes. I believe the cursor in the Mac OS is less forgiving and requires more exact movements then it's Windows counterpart. In the Mac OS, the actual point of the arrow cursor is where you are aiming to hit buttons with, where Windows OS allows pretty much any part of the cursor functions thusly..
     
  8. Jigglelicious macrumors 6502

    Jigglelicious

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #8
    Wow, it sounds like you have some of the exact same annoyances that I've found with OS X. Unfortunatly, I have been unable to resolve any of them.

    The mouse acceleration in OSX *really* annoys me. I've started threads over just this subject, but either no one else notices it or just says its better than the mouse movement in windows. Obviously, thats not true. Unfortunatly, I have yet to find any software that accurately recreates the feel of the windows mouse. Someone suggested using Kensington mouseworks software, but the software refuses to install unless you own a kensington mouse!

    I also find the Finder very very annoying. I'd do anything to get windows explorer back. The finder just doesn't feel... friendly. It works against me. I can't describe it any better than that.

    I've also noticed that in Safari, the close button is just a few pixels away from the back button, and i've accidentally closed my Safari window because of it.

    I wish there was a way to change these annoyances, but I have not had any luck. I wish I could have been of more help :(
     
  9. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #9
    The Mac UI versus Windows UI war is all about perception. Sometimes people have to just suck it up and learn to change their perceptions. That, or learn to code themselves out of their rut. :)
     
  10. Logik macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    #10
    I agree you should learn the keyboard shortcuts. having a powerbook and no wireless mouse to carry with me all the time and no room to carry a wired mouse i have learned to use the keyboard as much as i can and only use the mouse when it's absolutely necessary or conviently faster to do so. but i've learned so many little tidbits that i really only use the mouse to move windows, click buttons if i have to, or navigate to sections a great distance away from where i am in a document, whether that be word or a webpage or what have you. it's really a lot faster, a lot of my friends wonder how i do everything without using the mouse and it's just way more convient to be able to tap a few keys instead of moving my hands away from the keyboard for some trivial thing i could accomplish with less work in a fraction of the time. it's made me more productive and it's made my life easier in the process. give it a try i think you'll be a lot happier with the result.
     
  11. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #11
    Hmmm... anything?

    There's only one thing for it...


    Buy a PC. Sell your Mac.


    Stop bothering us with your petty gripes or learn the OS, particularly keyboard shortcuts.


    Honestly, though...

    THEY'RE NOT SAME!

    Wrap your head around the concept and get over it.
     
  12. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #12
    it's like a warranty

    I wish I have a solution. My roommate has a PB and after watching it for about a year, I took the plunge. In the 6 months since, I've found myself adapting in some ways, but still annoyed by a lot of features. I find column view to be the most user friendly on the Mac - maybe it's just the way i think, but it works. But, I still have a problem with renaming files. I just click on the icon or use the keyboard to open the file and click on the name to change the name. Same thing for Safari - the keyboard keeps me from doing anything I'd regret. While this seems like a lot of extra work, I find myself doing it without thinking. It actually takes more effort for me to click on the back button now.

    This doesn't really help, i know, but my only advice is to pick a couple of the most troubling features, figure out the keyboard shortcuts, and get programmed to do it. I've been told that the missing manual series has a switchers guide - i plan on buying it, or the os X, when i have time to read it.
     
  13. Logik macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    #13
    wow... got an ego problem or what? some of the issues he has are legit issues. now, go pull your head outta your rump and move along unless you have something worthy to commit to the conversation here.
     
  14. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #14
    Yawn...

    As if that forum member had anything to contribute by wishing s/he had Windows Explorer back. And by saying s/he'd do anything... well, there is only one reasonable response to that.

    Oh? And you don't have anything to contribute either.
    Honestly, do me a favour -- take your nightstick and go and police some other thread.
     
  15. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    #15
    A number of things you list are reasons why I don't like WinXP. :D

    Well I went and switched to a nice Dual G5 2Ghz about a year ago. I have been a PC/Windows/Linux user with some brief periods using Mac's with OS 8. I decided to jump for iTunes and the iLife suite.
    Welcome to the light side of the Force! :)

    - I really have a hard time with the interface on Aqua. The biggest problem is mouse movement, I just can't get used to the mouse acceleration curve.
    Under System Preferences you can choose Keyboard & Mouse. Then, where the Mouse tab is, click on it. You can change the settings there. Change your PC at work to reflect your Mac settings-- aka, no acceleration. I do not use my mouse a great amount, largely relying on keyboard shortcuts. If you click on the Toolbar at the top you can see the different commands and their associated keyboard shortcuts. Example: Command+O opens a folder whilst in the Finder. I manually accelerate the mouse, too...get the pointer close to where I want it to go and then slow it down some. This is part tweaking the settings until you get it right, part getting used to a new operating system.

    - Can I make the window buttons any bigger? I feel like I have to aim at the window close, max, and min buttons it's not effortless for me. Also in other buttons on the toolbar for example it seems like you have to click dead in the center if you are slightly off like near the edge it doesn't register.

    When the little x, -, and + appear it will register your mouse clicks. They are actually not that small, around the same size as the WinXP ones. Just take a few extra seconds to make sure you click in the right spot. As you get more and more used to using the UI (user interface) you will be able to do this faster and faster.


    - I find the Finder very awkward. I'm always highlighting files I want to move, and moving files I want to highlight.
    Huh? A little bit more explanation, please.

    I also miss the XP style status bar that shows the amount of space the files or selected files take up. I know this can sometimes be inaccurate with folders and such but it's still nice. Is there a free/shareware app that adds this?
    As said before, Command+I. Or, for a nifty trick: Command+Option+I. With the second one, whatever is the currently active/selected folder will have its info shown, whereas the first will show you only for the one that was highlighted when you told the computer to Show Info.

    - Text highlighting seems likes it possessed sometimes. I never know if I'm going to highlight the word, sentence, etc.
    This is the same as always...try looking at your System Preferences to see if there is something there under Keyboard and Mouse that will allow you to control your double click speed.

    - Is there a way to view the internals of ZIP files with out extracting everything? What if I only want one file out of a very large zip file?
    Nope. I have personally never needed to do that. That is why most OS X items are distributed via disk image. You download a zip/sit/binhex/whatever, decompress it, and then you have a disk image. Drag and drop from the disk image to the desktop to copy things across, or to the Applications folder to install an application...you get the point.

    For dragging and dropping, try highlighting files that are in a folder, clicking on their icon and dragging a little bit. Then press F9. All your folders that are open will come into view. Find the one you want, and hold the mouse (still dragging the icons) over that image. Then press F9 again. Let go once Expose is done...that is dragging and dropping the Mac way! :cool:
     
  16. dlastmango macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Location:
    West Coast - FLORIDA
    #16
    NO Problems...well maybe one prob here

    I have been a Windows user since Win 95 hit the streets. from then untill about a year ago I'd have maybe 1 or 2 chances a year to play with a Mac. A year ago I got a job as a video editor on a G4 setup and I have had only one problem so far.
    The File structure on OSX was a bit confusing at first... but in a few weeks all was good. I just didnt understand the system>Library??? folder...and why there was a Library folder on the same level as system???

    its a very nice system to use... So nice i just dropped 5 grand on a dulie 2.5 for my home edit systm...

    Chris
     
  17. Sharewaredemon macrumors 68000

    Sharewaredemon

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Location:
    Cape Breton Island
    #17
    I also miss the XP style status bar that shows the amount of space the files or selected files take up. I know this can sometimes be inaccurate with folders and such but it's still nice. Is there a free/shareware app that adds this?

    I think, what you want is under the view options in the finder, (command j) then click show item info, it now shows the information on the file, ack! that's only on the desktop,
    a few other things you might not know about (i'm sorry if this is blatant and you DO already know) is viewing in column view, you get this options by clicking on the oval button in the top right of a window.

    I would also agree with others in that keyboard shortcuts are extremely helpfull. I also have noticed that windows users tend to be what i call "mousers" and that they rarely use keyboard shortcuts, where in fact, half of the shortcuts in mac os are in win xp.
    Of course the really cool usefull ones are only in os x ;)
    If you are interested in some usefull ones, i'll let you know.

    Another REALLY usefull thing i use when in column view, is shift scrolling,
    this lets you scroll sideways, also very usefull in the iApps. Of course if you have the mouse that came with your computer you will not have a scrool wheel.



    "As said before, Command+I. Or, for a nifty trick: Command+Option+I. With the second one, whatever is the currently active/selected folder will have its info shown, whereas the first will show you only for the one that was highlighted when you told the computer to Show Info."

    WHOA, that's cool, i didn't know what you meant by that.


    What is this buisness about mouse acceleration curve?
    I don't know what this is, i've been a mac user all my life, so it might have something to do with it. But I would still like to know.
     
  18. Sharewaredemon macrumors 68000

    Sharewaredemon

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Location:
    Cape Breton Island
    #18

    That is something I use, but i find it is hard to describe. It would be good to point out that you hold the mouse button down the whole time.
     
  19. Jigglelicious macrumors 6502

    Jigglelicious

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #19
    Umm... ok. I never said that I expected OSX to be the same as windows. However, I would think that simple file management isn't all that difficult to do. Folders on the left side, files on the right side. Doesn't seem all that complex to me. The column view is the closest thing to it, but it make things difficult with moving forward backward inside a folder. Also, if you have a 1000 files and 3 folders mixed in, the folders don't appear at the top, so you have to run down and manually search through all those files until I find the folder I want. In windows, all folders appear at the top, above the files, so reaching them is easy.

    Keyboard shortcuts are nice and are must, but shouldn't the UI be just as powerful?

    And FYI, i have 2 Macs and 1 x86 PC. And as much as I like Apple, I am willing to admit that not everything they do is perfect (and subsequently, not everything that Microsoft does is wrong).
     
  20. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #20
    Open a Finder window -> View -> As List
    Then..
    View -> Show View Options -> All Windows & Calculate all sizes.
     
  21. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

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    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #21
    In a Finder Window, view as a List, click on the "Kind" bar at the top. All the files/folders will be grouped with like files/folders.
     
  22. Logik macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    #22
    As mentioned you may wish to try out PathFinder

    http://www.cocoatech.com/pf.php

    I just installed it to try it again for myself...

    it does take care of one thing you mentioned about the folders.

    by default it puts folders at the top of a column list, then files under those in alphabetical order.

    it is a $35 app

    i'm sure it does more than what you want but it may also do more of what you want than what i have just seen in the 10 minutes i've used it. it can also give you the size of each folder, etc..

    download the demo and try it out.. you'll probably have to customize it to your liking.
     
  23. Logik macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    #23
    unfortunately that screws things up a bit from what he wants. if for example he has aac and mp3 files in a large folder together... it'll put the aac files in alphabetical order, and then after those it'll put the mp3 files in alphabetical order.. but it won't "combine" the two as it should.... he wants it in alphabetical order but not also sorted by file type but wants the folders at the top.. pathfinder does this by default for me... but it gets in my way... it has a TON of neat features but to me on a powerbook seems to throw in everything including the kitchensink...
     
  24. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

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    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #24
    That's the breaks! But at least all the Folders are together ;)
     
  25. Jigglelicious macrumors 6502

    Jigglelicious

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    #25
    I guess my issue is that I shouldn't have to purchase a $35 program just to view my folders at the top of the list. I mean really, this feature has been available in Windows since like 3.1 (and probably even earlier). Can't Apple, at the very least, stick an option in there to view folders at the top? Don't get me wrong - I love OS X. But there are just tons of little annoyances that exist, which shouldn't exist, that only aid to sour the experience.

    Also, i couldn't find this "kind" button the other person was talking about, although it seems it doesn't do exactly what I want it to either :)
     

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