T minus 12 hours Until My DP2.5 is canceled

[Squire]

I still don't understand what kind of project could possibly require a Dual 2.5 that could not be done on a Dual 2.0. I have a close friend that is patiently waiting on her Dual 2.5, but she continues to get her graphics design work done everyday on her 2 1/2 year old Quicksilver Power Mac G4 933 too. While the delays are annoying, they certainly aren't keeping people from getting their essential work done.

I guess a lot of people are curious about that. Slughead's response to that earlier was:

Long story short, I can't do that (I certainly would if I could though).

There must be a reason.

Squire

 

[slughead]

Originally Posted by Lancetx
I still don't understand what kind of project could possibly require a Dual 2.5 that could not be done on a Dual 2.0.

The reason is not that I couldn't make due with a 2.0, it's that I couldn't change the order do to technical reasons. Businesses don't want to have things change up on a dime anyway, and with the powermac being a workstation, its aim is mostly at people in business.

Besides, Apple told me a mere 12 hours before the day it was supposed to ship, even if I was able to change my order to a Dual 2.0, would I have gotten it any faster?

ozone (who posted in this thread), talks how he's been waiting 19 days for his 17" powerbook to ship (a product that's been out a long time).

Small businesses and private citizens can see problems instantly and change plans immediately, however larger organizations aren't able to do this--they need time to adjust to situations. Say what you will about Microsoft, at least when they say something's shipping, they mean it. On one shipment of xboxes, they even took a heavy loss using couriers to get them to a rural best buy on time.

What my company was ordering 30 G5s? Could I just *change* plans and go to my local apple store and buy the 30 of the lower end models? I'd have to drive to both Apple stores in Arizona, as well as a few best buys and both Fry's electronics stores. That's not the way business works. You can't force someone to change their whole supply structure just because you didn't *feel* like telling them in a timely manner.

Delays are one thing, but delaying at the last minute is something completely different.

It's like that pizza analogy, *estimated* shipping time might be 30 minutes, but if it takes 2 hours you still have the right to be pissed off. Imagine if it was delayed nearly 3 weeks?

Good luck with the contract. I hope you get it all worked out.

Thanks!

As for Apple's shipping times, it seems like they're a habitual problem rather than a few isolated instances. That makes me wonder how accurate the original shipping estimates are. When you place an order for a recently announce but not-yet-shipping product, are they basically lying with the original ship dates to get you hooked? Or are they that delusional that they think there's a possibility of getting the machines out the door in time?

I think it's a mixture of both. Think about it: who knows about Apple's supply problems more than apple does?? why don't they put their estimated times 1 month ahead, since they know it'll probably be delayed that long. They don't do it because shareholders HATE that crap.

I think the main supply problem is, ever since they've outsourced so much of their stuff, they've been having supply chain problems that they don't want to make public. Perhaps the assembly plants are the same places where they assemble Compaqs or Dells, and they don't want quality problems with Dells to be looked at as a problem with Apple as well.

Rumors of possible delays take so long to travel to the PR department, maybe we're hearing about them the same time parts of Apple are hearing about them.

They need more Americans on the ground over there, but alas, that would cost too much :X

This is the way pretty much all hardware is moving. Dell wants an Mp3 player so they ask some Taiwanese plant to stamp them out with Dell Labels on them. It's amazing how much Dell really DOESN'T do. At least Apple makes software :X.

[edit: ignore the grammatical mistakes, it's been a long day and it's only lunch time]

 

[wdlove]

I also wish you well with your meeting today. Hopefully you can re-negotiate the contract and still get the 2.5 G5. I'm looking forward to the results of your meeting. I will be thinking about you.

 

[FuzzyBallz]

I love the benefit of having early shipments of Macs at the school computer store. Personally, I for one will never buy or wait for shipment of a product. It's either shipped within 24hrs, or I'll get it from the retail store. With that said, Dell has Apple beat hands down on the "order > build > ship" dept.

 

[Timelessblur]

Basicly from you last post and how it becoming more and more clear that apple pretty much lies on it shiping estmates. They do it so there stock looks good and more people will buy there stock. If they told the truth it would case there stock to fall. I think apple is pulling an Enron here.

They can only keep the BS up for so long and by the looks of things it starting to fall apart. You figure they would of learned from there mistake long ago with the orginal macs and there lieing back then but Guess not. They are doing it again.

 

[slughead]

UPDATE 2:

Just got the call, they agreed to my terms of bending over and taking up the botox in exchange for moving back the contract. Less work and a pay cut, but hourly I'm now making more ..

I would say "thank you for doing a bad job, Apple" but I'm still out of work for another couple weeks thanks to them.

At least it gave me some time for some meaningful self-exploration in the spirit of our deity, Steve P Jobs......

*throws something* What kind of an ******* makes billions of dollars a year wearing blue jeans to work!! If I ever meet that guy I'm gonna kick him sqa' in the nuts!!!

 

[edesignuk]

*throws something* What kind of an ******* makes billions of dollars a year wearing blue jeans to work!! If I ever meet that guy I'm gonna kick him sqa' in the nuts!!!

This made me laugh, Thanku

 

[slughead]

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/994960/

ugh

Well I'm canceled, what a monumental pile of crap. FU Apple.

 

[wdlove]

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/994960/

ugh

Well I'm canceled, what a monumental pile of crap. FU Apple.

It make me very sad to hear that you have decided to cancel. What type of Mac will you be getting? It seemed that by the letter your received, Apple was trying very hard to accommodate.

 

[LeonPro]

slughead, pardon the people who don't know how real businesses work. A lot of businesses work on verbal agreements and deadlines. We place orders on the edge of receiving the payment the day before. That's how it really works. Heck, take a look at how the stock market operates - lots of last minute orders and cancellations.

People who sit at the convencience of their homes or do a 9 to 5 job for an employer will NEVER understand this.

I personally know how this operates because I've been there before going back to take my Masters. You take an order and get the materials that you need to fulfill that order. You know where those materials are and you bank of the company's delivery date of those materials, then you make your decision.

Yes it is a risk, but a risk that businesses are willing to play and pay for. slughead played that risk and he did get what the consequences were. It would be nice to see Apple operate as a professional business and to know when to disclose to their customers if they cannot make a deadline. That way, people who depend on their company can make better decisions and a healthier relationship.

As for the rest who can't understand this or why the hell he would need a G5, you will never get it until you are in the same position.

I have a G5 2.5, myself, which I have been using for FCP4HD and AE6.5 and I thought this would be enough. It's never enough. You do more and you ask for more. But then again, you guys will never understand.

 

[slughead]

It make me very sad to hear that you have decided to cancel. What type of Mac will you be getting? It seemed that by the letter your received, Apple was trying very hard to accommodate.

I probably wont be buying for at least another 6 months.

I'll talk to my employers tomorrow and see if I can't convince them to get it in town, the likely-hood is incredibly low.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice.. can't get fooled again!

 

[Sun Baked]

Yes it is a risk, but a risk that businesses are willing to play and pay for. slughead played that risk and he did get what the consequences were. It would be nice to see Apple operate as a professional business and to know when to disclose to their customers if they cannot make a deadline. That way, people who depend on their company can make better decisions and a healthier relationship.

Apple does have to play by the FTC rules, so they don't have a free lunch with their shipment dates.

As you said it is a professional business and the FTC will make them follow the rules, and allow people to cancel if they don't get the product whithin a reasonable time of the original estimated ship date.

 

[wdlove]

I probably wont be buying for at least another 6 months.

I'll talk to my employers tomorrow and see if I can't convince them to get it in town, the likely-hood is incredibly low.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice.. can't get fooled again!

Try to be optimistic and positive, you may be pleasantly surprised.

By waiting 6 months you may very well be able to get a Rev. C or even the dual core G5.

 

[slughead]

slughead, pardon the people who don't know how real businesses work. A lot of businesses work on verbal agreements and deadlines. We place orders on the edge of receiving the payment the day before. That's how it really works. Heck, take a look at how the stock market operates - lots of last minute orders and cancellations.

People who sit at the convencience of their homes or do a 9 to 5 job for an employer will NEVER understand this.

I personally know how this operates because I've been there before going back to take my Masters. You take an order and get the materials that you need to fulfill that order. You know where those materials are and you bank of the company's delivery date of those materials, then you make your decision.

Yes it is a risk, but a risk that businesses are willing to play and pay for. slughead played that risk and he did get what the consequences were. It would be nice to see Apple operate as a professional business and to know when to disclose to their customers if they cannot make a deadline. That way, people who depend on their company can make better decisions and a healthier relationship.

As for the rest who can't understand this or why the hell he would need a G5, you will never get it until you are in the same position.

I have a G5 2.5, myself, which I have been using for FCP4HD and AE6.5 and I thought this would be enough. It's never enough. You do more and you ask for more. But then again, you guys will never understand.

Thanks guy! I think most people like us don't post on forums, they just see these delays and do what they have to do. It's not a luxury item, it's a tool for doing business, and I think there is a high percentage of Powermac buyers who see it this way.

Apple expects a hard hit every time they do this kind of thing, I'm amazed that they would risk so much to lower the opportunity cost NOT to cancel.

Instead of telling me that it was going to be delayed a 2 and a half months on 6/25, they told me a month and a half on 7/29, and a month on 8/19. Thus since I can make significantly fewer arrangements in that time period, it is less likely that I would cancel. They basically coerced me to wait so that the real wait time would seem less daunting. I would've already canceled half of my schedule for the 8/20 delay, and the other half later for the 9/03 delay.

One last thing: If they would've asked me, tonight, to ship my computer with the 9600XT tomorrow, I would've said yes. But the fact that they give me this BS choice of waiting another TWO weeks for something LESS THAN what I ordered is totally unacceptable, ESPECIALLY considering they'd ALREAY DELAYED MY ORDER.

Now people who ordered 2 months after I did with the 9800XT have already received their computers and I'd have to wait 2 weeks to get something not even as good as what they got?? If I treated my customers like that I'd be screwed.

I guess Apple has a lot more liquid assets to burn when they freeze up.

 

[FugiMax]

I just don't see why you ordered a Dual 2.5 with a 6800 ultra, when Apple *specifically* said the 6800 Ultra would not be available until "Late August."

If you truly had a contract you needed to buy this for, and it was essential for you to get it sometime before the end of August...why on earth did you opt for the 6800? It seems like that almost assured you wouldn't get it by the date you needed.

I have a DUal 2.5 6800 on order from ADC...no email here yet...but I assume that's because it's ADC...we get emails from different people.

 

[superfunkomatic]

i think this obsession a lot of posters have with the clock speed of their processors is ridiculous. what kind of work are you doing that it's essential to have one new computer to do all your work? and if you're in business already with presumably some equipment how is your current workflow?

maybe if you are working on an old 8600 the power g5 dual is a necessity, otherwise it seems like just another whiney post about "needing" fast computers.

 

[nbaker756]

think before you act...

apple did say it would not ship nvidia 6800 computers till late august. this being said, you should not have relied on it being shipped before then. also, consider this to be IBM's problem too. IBM is having numerous product delays and apple sadly has to put up with it. hopefully, IBM will get production up soon for all our sakes.

 

[Sun Baked]

apple did say it would not ship nvidia 6800 computers till late august. this being said, you should not have relied on it being shipped before then. also, consider this to be IBM's problem too. IBM is having numerous product delays and apple sadly has to put up with it. hopefully, IBM will get production up soon for all our sakes.

Considering this GPU is probably being made by IBM at the East Fishkill fab, sort of makes you wonder how Apple likes getting punched in the face by their other AIM parter.

 

[LeonPro]

i think this obsession a lot of posters have with the clock speed of their processors is ridiculous. what kind of work are you doing that it's essential to have one new computer to do all your work? and if you're in business already with presumably some equipment how is your current workflow?

maybe if you are working on an old 8600 the power g5 dual is a necessity, otherwise it seems like just another whiney post about "needing" fast computers.

Of course, this comment is coming from a person who does not do the work we do that one has to ask what kind of work it is when I can think of lots of work that needs fast computers. I don't care to ask what kind of work YOU do.

Personally, it's not a new computer or clock speed that I'm obsessed about. With the work I do, I need the fastest available. Try working on picture editing. And I'm not talking about some home digital video editing. I'm talking about SD and HD video files in 8-bit and 10-bit mode where the file of 12 minutes of your DV is equal to 2 minutes of 8-bit SD for the same file size. And then try applying effects to those files in After-Effects, Shake or whatever compositing software you need. After applying the effects, try watching them in real-time. When you're satisfied, try rendering those effects. How much time do you think it will take? Is there a difference between a Dual 2.0GHz and Dual 2.5GHz? Hello?!

If we are in the business already (and you obviously aren't) then you won't know how much time we are losing by constantly waiting and rendering. If we can do it faster, then we save time. If we save time then we can afford to get more projects and more clients. So if we are able to get more work by saving time then that means time is money. My God they were right, weren't they?

Another "whiney" post for a faster computer. Dude, wake up! Everyone's requirements is not the same as yours. If you don't need a fast computer and you don't understand why, please don't try to even think and act smart that you know we don't need it. O K A Y.

 

[LeonPro]

Oh yeah, and one more thing. There is such a thing as SETI@home and Folding@home in case you still haven't heard. And before you ask, no I didn't buy a G5 to run those programs. While I need a fast computer to help me earn more clients and ultimately more money. There are other people with more meaningful jobs that NEED a faster computer to understand the human race and help save lives.

Why do you think they had to launch the @home programs to ask help from people who do not make full use of their computers and can contribute processing power for their research? You think one G5 will be enough for them? In case you also haven't heard, there is such a thing as supercomputers and render farms where a cluster of computers a thousand times more powerful than your average G5 is capable of performing for their research work. Why?

-----

WHY IS PROTEIN FOLDING SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

It's amazing that not only do proteins self-assemble -- fold -- but they do so amazingly quickly: some as fast as a millionth of a second. While this time is very fast on a person's timescale, it's remarkably long for computers to simulate.

In fact, it takes about a day to simulate a nanosecond (1/1,000,000,000 of a second). Unfortunately, proteins fold on the tens of microsecond timescale (10,000 nanoseconds). Thus, it would take 10,000 CPU days to simulate folding -- i.e. it would take 30 CPU years! That's a long time to wait for one result!

A SOLUTION: DISTRIBUTED DYNAMICS

To solve the protein folding problem, we need to break the microsecond barrier. Our group has developed a new way to simulate protein folding which can break the microsecond barrier by dividing the work between multiple processors in a new way -- with a near linear speed up in the number of processors. Thus, with 1000 processors, we can break the microsecond barrier and help unlock the mystery of how proteins fold.

-----

So while you try and understand why people need faster computers, try telling the scientists at Standford that they are just "whiney" people who are in need of help as they try to save lives.

 

[slughead]

So while you try and understand why people need faster computers, try telling the scientists at Standford that they are just "whiney" people who are in need of help as they try to save lives.

Yeah, I could totally kick those guys' asses and steal their computers.

I could burn the motherboards for warmth and save bundles on my electric bill! In a few years that'd make up for this contract I'm about to lose!

Now what the hell state is virginia tech in?

---
On a serious note, Mr. omatic, this G4 I have doesn't even fit the minimum requirements for the new Motion. I think it's really awesome that you can just glance at my situation and know that since I'm not running some computing cluster, I'd have no use for a *modern* workstation.

It's really not my fault Apple's been selling obsolete computers from 1995-2003. When I bought this machine, people still thought Bush was stupid (the first time). That seems like a decade ago, and in computing terms that was like 80 years ago.

Every mac user gets screwed by Apple at least once a year, I had no idea they'd screw me twice in one month! Plus, you really have to imagine the gaul of Apple--canceling twice within hours of shipment. I mean, wow. If I had balls that big, people might think I'm from the coastal region of Tanzania .. ... .. nevermind.

If we are in the business already (and you obviously aren't) then you won't know how much time we are losing by constantly waiting and rendering. If we can do it faster, then we save time. If we save time then we can afford to get more projects and more clients. So if we are able to get more work by saving time then that means time is money. My God they were right, weren't they?

For the work I would have been doing, the speed of the G5 compared to what I have now would've paid for itself in about 2-3 months. I suppose this suggests roughly how much I lost on this deal; try to keep it under your hat, will ya?

Smaller projects are more fun anyway, and I get paid like I'm still in high school. Radical dude!

 

[slughead]

Considering this GPU is probably being made by IBM at the East Fishkill fab, sort of makes you wonder how Apple likes getting punched in the face by their other AIM parter.

I have a feeling this is Apple's fault.

Well, at least the 'processors' delay. I think they're diverting 90nm's to the iMacs, and weren't expecting to have to do that. The stock dip on the supposed delay was HUGE. Apparently the stock market had accepted the imacs as a given and saw the lack of imacs as a delay :X.

I'd imagine someone at the top of the company who's middle name starts with P ordered supplies to be diverted. Apparently it was Jobs' fault the iMacs were delayed in the first place, as he was behind the new design. Maybe he was trying to make up for it by pushing the iMacs out before october.

And then there's the video cards. I'd imagine that mass production on the video cards STARTED when they were announced at WWDC. 2 months is about right to re-tool and construct cards. Perhaps Apple's secrecy for the WWDC "big bang" was to blame. Or perhaps they weren't ready and Jobs wanted to announce it anyway. So he didn't look like a douche for having zero iMacs and a significantly crappier G5.

 

[paxtonandrew]

Hey slughead, sorry to hear about the delay (and ultimate cancellation) of your G5. That is really disappointing for Apple, and also for them to do it to you. The people out there who don't realize that for some, computers are not an appliance, but their way of generating income. My work uses Macs (lowly G4's) and for workstation use they are fine. Ask them to do any graphics or film editing work, and they will struggle. I can see how hard it will be for people who want Apple's fastest computer, and also the best graphics card, to wait for what seems like an age (and the wait is for that graphics card, not necessarily for the G5 chips) and then to constantly delay them.

Maybe somebody could set up a "WE DEMAND OUR 2.5GHZ G5s WITH THE GE-FORCE 6800 OR WE SWITCH TO DELL! petition and give it to Steve or somebody high up like that. Or somebody going to Paris to bail Phil Schiller and demand to know where they are.

I hope things work out for you, and that you can work out a new computer.

Good Luck

 

[mattthemutt]

Being the pretty smart company that they are, couldn't they have learned that they will probably require a large supply of the new item? It happened with a couple of things. (ie Mini and G5)

 

[morkintosh]

Well my reputation has been damaged

that is your own fault

Long story short, I can't do that (I certainly would if I could though).

Macmall, your local university, depending on where you live even an Apple store. There are all kinds of options. I am a software architect for a living and I don't think I have ever encountered a system that is small enough that one guy can do it with a new computer but is so complex as to require a dual G5 2.5. Quit whining, you should have canceled long ago and just picked up a dual 2.0.

and that thing I just read 3 or so posts back about Stanford scientists ... gimme a f**cking break! Comparing this one guys contract to a major university research grant ... pathetic analogy!