Testing Out Torture/Enhanced Interrogation Techniques

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by guzhogi, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. macrumors 68020

    guzhogi

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Location:
    Wherever my feet take me…
    #1
    Something I was thinking of this morning: with all the non-lethal punishments, interrogation techniques, or whatever they're called, should you have it done to yourself before you're allowed to do it to others?

    Take a look at tasters or water boarding. When used appropriately, they're non-lethal. But there have been so many things where I've heard people say "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy."

    What do you all think?
     
  2. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #2
    Why would I have to waterboard myself before approving of it done to a terrorist?

     
  3. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #3
    I don't think you need to have it done to yourself. But it needs to be exposed what exactly is being done, the physical effects, the short and long-term consequences, the rate of injury and death, etc.

    (I'm not familiar with the term "tasters". Is that another way to say "force feeding"?)
     
  4. TPadden, Aug 4, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013

    macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    #4
    What makes you think they aren't? I was tazed, pepper (OC) sprayed, and CS'd before being allowed to carry them. My SERE training was pre- water boarding but if they were using it, even to a limited degree, on Special Operators and pilots, I would suspect it was part of the training programs for "enhanced" interrogators.

    In April 2009, the U.S. Department of Defense refused to say whether waterboarding is still used for training (e.g. SERE) U.S. military personnel in resistance to interrogation.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
     
  5. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #5
    For LEOs, you have to be tased before you're issued a taser. You have to be pepper sprayed before you're issued pepper spray. So if you're going to be waterboarding someone, you should have to be waterboarded first.

    That said, we shouldn't be using torture at all. It's an egregious human rights violation.
     
  6. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #6
    I asked why. Pretty sure we're all aware of testing. I've seen journalists tazed, for kicks.

    If there is a reason why, then are we to be tazed/waterboarded etc - to the same degree.

    Because that's where the real issue lies as far as I'm concerned. Torture can range from fun, to sexual, to mildy irritating.

    Or it can be so extreme that it breaks a person mentally and/or physically. Are the CIA agents implicated in torture broken down for months by waterboarding until they crack, so that they're allowed to use the techniques in the field?
     
  7. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    #7
    Guess you'd have to ask them; ..... but then you'd run into the old "I'd have to kill you if I told you" :eek: catch 22 :D!
     
  8. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #8
    Watched Damages Season 4 last week. I don't want to be anywhere near a CIA agent! :D
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    #9
    Sounds to me you've put too much thought into torture. :eek: I'm returning to changing front and rear tires on my motorcycle; torture enough for me :).
     
  10. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #10
    Exactly.

    It's one thing to be tazed or waterboarded by your colleagues in a situation you know is controlled versus those things being done to you by an adversarial force possibly to the point or injury or death.
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    #11
    Exactly.

    Kind of like being bombed by your colleagues in a situation you know is controlled versus those things being done to you by an adversarial force always to the point or injury or death :rolleyes:.....
     
  12. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #12
    That makes so little sense.

    Being blown up would be the same regardless of who detonated the bomb.

    However, torture under the hands of an adversary is vastly different than a controlled exercise with friends and colleagues.

    I'm sorry that you can't see the difference.
     
  13. macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #13
    No, that's not the same at all.
     
  14. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #14
    But I see the strict application of logic behind it ;)
     
  15. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #15
    Why? They should know what they're inflicting on another human being. If something is so extreme that they wouldn't be willing to undergo it themselves, they shouldn't be doing it to other people. That's the bottom line in my opinion.
     
  16. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    #16
    And to what degree?
     
  17. macrumors 6502

    CalWizrd

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    NYC/Raleigh, NC
    #17
    Interesting concept to apply to the death penalty. Of course, after testing the effects, it would be rather difficult to turn around and apply the same penalty to another. s/
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    #18
    George Washington on Torture

    https://www.commondreams.org/views05/1217-30.htm


    Here is another one. Washington's letter to Benedict Arnold regarding his expedition into Quebec:

    Washington's principle makes just as much sense today as it did then.
     
  19. macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    #19
    I don't want to go to jail but I have no problem sending other people to it for life.
     
  20. macrumors G3

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #20
    Uh, no you don't. Guess they have to be hit with a baton first too, or better yet shot.
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    DesertEagle

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Location:
    /home @ 127.0.0.1
    #21
    My colleagues and I waterboarded each other while in the service. We did have medics present just in case, but despite the controlled circumstances, I decided to never waterboard anyone for real after that.

    Waterboarding is torture.
     
  22. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    #22
    How is water boarding a human rights violation?
     
  23. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #23

    Because it's torture. What's more, in the case of the United States, often inflicted without due process.

    The United States is signatory to the Geneva Convention and the United Nations Convention against Torture, just for starters. The Treaty Clause means that international treaties become part of US federal law.

    John McCain, who knows more about torture than anyone here:

    Clear enough?
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #24
    It's torture.

    And, there was a time when the United States recognized the practice as a war crime.

    As former JAG attorney Evan Wallach noted in the Washington Post, the "water cure" was used by Japanese interrogators in WWII. After the war, several Japanese officers were executed for war crimes during the "Tokyo Trials" and one of the offenses was the use of the "water cure" or water-boarding.

    As Wallach notes, the United States prosecuted the use of the technique as far back as the Spanish-American War and as recently as 1983 when a Texas sheriff was sentenced to 10 years for doing the same thing to a prisoner.
     
  25. macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Location:
    Anchorage
    #25
    Not according to the U.S. Government....

    How can it possibly be torture? The U.S. Government used it and the President of the United States has stated on multiple occasions that we DO NOT torture people.

    If it is torture as you stated why has no one been charged?
     

Share This Page