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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Sep 14, 2004.
Outstanding drama, the problem with it, like so many of kerry's shots over the bow is.....HE VOTED TO GO TO IRAQ, HE SAID WE SHOULD SPEND WHATEVER IT TAKES! (granted he said these things in the middle of not saying them and then saying them again......)
There is no question that it is more difficult to find THE B***ARDS with fewer troops, but if you believe the king B***ARD has not heard from us, you too are deaf.
We have what we have, now what do we do with it. Playing 20/20 hindsight with a policy you have endorsed is silly.
It's a great ad. I'm waiting for it to actually be made. If Kerry is to win, he must take on the fallacy that Bush has provided even adequate leadership in the fight against al Qaeda. The facts of the case are well presented in the article, but it waits for the Kerry campaign to drive it home with the voters.
Remember "speak softly and carry a big stick"? Kerry voted to give Bush a stick. Little did he know that Bush would *actually* get us mired in an occupation of a hostile country. The stick had accomplished its purpose before Bush ever sent the troops in. Weapons inspectors were back, Saddam was cooperating again. Bush ****ed it up, don't try and pin this on Kerry.
yea, Kerry voted to give Bush the authority to go to war. Remember Bush at the time wanted a united US front to achieve stronger inspections and international support. Remember, at the time, Bush was saying he was doing all he could to avoid war. I do not understand why people can not see this distinction though Kerry has not been very good at clearing it up.
Maybe people are too blunt to understand it.
I am not so sure about this ad. It may not have the effect that Johnson's "Daisy" ad had, and may backfire.
I know that NBC has sent lawyers to the DNC about this or another ad, wanting them to immediately stop the ad because of copyright infringement. (you know illegal use of others work). The funny part is that good ole impartial CBS hasn't stopped them from using their material, hoping to help their agenda, CBS increasingly shows its complicent hand.
Kerry voted to give Bush the ability to go to war under the assurance from the President that it would be done after all reasonable avenues had been exhausted. That is not what happened.
If I agree to give you some money because you have told me that you will spend it on books for school and you go buy drugs with it, am I to blame for the fact that you bought drugs?
Maybe if we were both average joe's but this is the President of the United States, a President who wanted to restore dignity to the White House. Don't you think he should live up to that promise?
Wow, cause just this summer kerry said he would have gone into Iraq too!
So, It is hard to hide his "flipping" flipper!
Stu: Lies and truths have become uncovered and are continually being uncovered every day about the Bush administration's scandals the past four years. You're calling Kerry a flip-flopper because that's what the media have done to him.
In reality, his mind has changed due to previously unknown evidence about the failures of George Bush and the republicans.
His mind has changed like ya read about!! Kerry was on the intelligence committee, he might forget that seeing how he doesn't go much, but he saw the EXACT same pre-invasion intell as everyone else. He told the press that he would have done the exact same thing that W did, just the other month! He admonished Dean in the debates about it for goodness sake.
Why it was so wrong to rid the world of Sadam and his mass graves, after over a decade of deplomacy is beyond me.
I can't even remember the number of UN security council votes to do the same. They had pulled the weapons inspectors out a number of times, Sadam had even forced them out on occassion.
Kerry is on record as flipping so many times, his press secretary recently told cnn that he wasn't doing national press conferences because they didn't want him to "step" on his own msg!!!!!!!! Now that's impressive!
I personnally pray the dnc runs these kind of ads, PLEASE RUN THEM DAY AND NIGHT
so you prefer a president who never change his mind and keeps his 'agenda' regardless of public opinion ?
well fell free to vote those politicians..but don't come back next year complaining about 'lacking international support','toothless UN','weak EU' , or others who are to blame for the US foreign policies
Actually, the line in his stump speech is this: "What would I have done differently in Iraq? I would have done EVERYTHING differently."
Yeah, and you know what, I lost much respect for the Dems because of this very vote. The men and women of congress and the senate should be voting based on what they think is the best course for the country, but I don't think that's always true. Let's consider the context of that vote for a moment...
Since Sept. 11th, Americans have shifted their priorities. Before Sept. 11th, if you asked many Americans what the most important issue to them was, healthcare, jobs, guns or abortion would have been tops on the list. Afterwards, there was only one answer for most Americans: national security. And we were rabid in our desire for safety. When asked, many Americans said they'd GLADLY give up some freedoms for more security.
One more question to fill out the context: what is the most important thing to nearly all politicians in this country? If you answered anything other than "getting re-elected," you are kidding yourself. Politicians in this country make a career out of "public service". If they lose an election, they are endangering their career. As many people who work in corporations know, when people are threatened by job loss, many will do nearly anything to keep it.
Now, given that context, is it surprising that congress and the senate voted nearly unanimously for the Patriot Act or the resolutions on Iraq? Both were sold by their creators and proponents as steps CRITICAL to ensuring America's safety. CRITICAL! Given the politicians want to stay in office, voting against either of those bills could very well have been political suicide. You don't vote against a bill which the public views as critical to national security when national security is the first thing on the minds of most Americans if you want to keep your office. Its just good politician's sense.
Basically, Kerry's votes on these matters were a foregone conclusion. The political climate was such that no sensible politician would have voted against them. And yes, this is an indictment of Kerry: he should have voted in a manner that was good for America, not his political career.
But the more important indictment is that of the American political system. Don't think for a second that Bush, in Kerry's place, would have done anything differently. It doesn't work that way in this country, sorry to say. This is a problem, and it needs fixing. Our representatives should represent their constituents, not those with the most money for their campaign or their own interests.
Are you really going to let facts get in the way of an otherwise perfect argument? Stickler.
An amusing aside....
I get the feeling that W was, perhaps watching SouthPark on DVD while considering what to do about the potential switch in Iraq from trading Oil in USD to trading Oil in Euro. Such a switch was in the works just as anti-Iraq rhetoric from the Whitehouse was really getting into gear. The switch would have had a very pronounced long-term effect on both currencies.
I just can't get it out of my mind.... It fits so well....
"What excuse do we need to invade Iraq?" He asks himself while munching pretzels. Then like a flash of divine inspiration as he leans into his first line of the day, from the TV comes: " Look out! It's coming right for us!!" followed by frenzied gunfire. After nearly inhaling a pretzel along with his Bolivian Marching Dust he gets on the phone.
I know, I know. Sounds like Stu doesn't want me looking after his misstatements anymore anyways...
The whole point of the Bush campaign is to make up stories about what Kerry WOULD do rather than being held accountable for what Bush HAS done.
It's a fact that troops were diverted from the hunt for Ossama to go to Iraq.
It's a fact that post war planning for Iraq and Afghanistan was completely inept. Sure we have a good military but the civilian side failed them. Why reward such incompetence?
Two excellent points.
Perhaps the Bushies feel this to be a "foreward-looking campaign"?
We wouldn't want to get too hung up on the PAST now would we? Oh! Wait... there's the whole Swiftvets thing... so it's more of a short-term memory loss issue... isn't that usually a side effect of heavy drug or alcohol addiction?
The ad I want to see won't fit into 30 seconds, my ad would be a split screen of george bush reading My Pet Goat for SEVEN MINUTES after being told "America is under attack" on one side while the other side is realtime of the newsfeeds of the towers burning and the FAA trying to track the other missing planes.
Actually, I think this ad, "Guard", is even better.
They should run this on TV 24/7.