The all important MARKET SHARE

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by Liquidog, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Liquidog macrumors member

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    #1
    We hear about market share all the time, even from mac-heads. "Apple needs to increase its marketshare, or it's going to be in trouble", etc etc. While I agree that it's very low, I have to wonder as well. This is a company that has been around for literally decades and they have billions in the bank. They have time and time again hung on through horrendous company shake ups and other seemingly insurmountable difficulties. (You know, like 2% market share.)
    It seems to me that if Apple WANTED to have greater market share, it WOULD. There are other companies that depend on being seen as "the outsider". It's not a result of poor planning or bad advertising. It's an advertising campaign in itself. Apple has reacted to historically low market share by exploiting it to the maximum. Now, if their marketshare goes up, it's since has a huge triumph. "The underdog is winning!". It's Rocky all over again. People love to root for the underdog.
    What do you all think? Is the low marketshare intentional, or are they really trying to increase it, and by how much?
     
  2. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #2
    Apple has always been a sort of "niche" company, selling to people who want a distinctive product, and who "Think Different." :)
     
  3. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #3
    Apple wants to generate the highest possible return for its shareholders. Marketshare is one component of that equation, but by no means the only component. IBM is selling its PC division, with a larger marketshare than Apple's, because it wasn't making any money. OTOH, Dell, with substantially larger marketshare than Apple, also makes more money than Apple.

    I think the reason Apple fans obsess about marketshare is not because they want stock prices to go up, but because they want to "spread the gospel" of Mac.

    Personally I don't care about marketshare one way or another, as long as Apple stays in business making great computers.
     
  4. Norouzi macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Apple has an extreamly loyal customer base, most people who buy a mac will continue to buy mac's most likely for the rest of their lives, so having a low market share will definatily not put Apple into trouble simply because they've survived for a very long time with the market share they have. OTOH Apple definatily wants to increase their market share as seen with the Switch campaign that they started a couple years ago. They were trying to take some of the market back from PC's and had a campagin to do exactly that, and I have to say I saw more Apple ads in that early part of the Switch campaign than I had in the years before. It seems like Apple has slacked off a little in the Computer marketing and focused more on iPod adds lately, not that that's a problem. Overall I think that if Apple really wanted more market share then they'd have it. As it is I think their happy being the underdog.
     
  5. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #5
    Please remember that the installed base and current market share are different things. While the sales market share is low, there are still quite a few Apple machines still in service. It's true that people are buying a lot of x86 machines and that Apple has not pushed as much as possible.

    It would be good for Apple to work somewhat harder to show just how good the products are. Of course, with the current release of Mac OS X, I'm not sure they should tout it too much. However, with the current atmosphere of attacks against computers, they should be able to find some way to politely demonstrate this without coming under attack themselves.
     
  6. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #6
    As "fun" as it is to be apart of a "niche", market share is very important to me because I can't purchase Mac software or accessories at any of my local electronic stores. My state only has one mac retailer, and their store is not convenient to my location. I'm forced to purchase everything online. The average person is not going to go through all that trouble to purchase products for their computer. Apple needs to work with large retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, etc) to get its products back into those outlets.

    Example, my iPod's firewire cable died the other day. I went to Best Buy hoping to purchase a new cable, well... no... Best Buy only carries the USB 2.0 cable. I was forced to order the cable online, and received it some 5 days later.

    I love Apple's products, but sometimes I question whether its worth it.
     
  7. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #7
    I think that Apple would like to increase it's marketshare, though I don't think it intends to directly compete with the Wintel world as a whole.

    If Apple has a high success rate in getting PC owning iPod/iPhone (if that happens) users (and maybe a few of their friends here and there) to buy a Mac, they could quickly end up with marketshare in the 5-10% range. With that increase would come an increase in software titles released to the Mac platform as well as more third-party support (think video cards and peripherals like GPS units etc.). And probably some viruses and spyware too.

    I think that this may happen in the next few years IF Apple's current growth is sustained.
     
  8. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #8
    ive seen firewire cables at my local best buy, its a standard cable, no reason for them not to have it, and they carry ipods so they do have all the ipod accessories

    did you look for yourself of just ask? the workers at best buy are morons, and you usually have to find things that are a bit more obscure yourself
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    Apple has some good products even if they cant seem to build a consumer tower for the people but the sad fact is apple has spiraled downward to 2% marketshare and its all their own fault. They got a great OS but do you ever hear of it? They got some pretty neat computers but you ever see a commercial on one? They make some great software/hardware but can you walk into any store and buy it? Heck no unless you live in california or are just lucky enough to live near one of those few big city stores. Out of site is out of mind and Macs have been out of site in most of the world for a long long time. Apple has only themselves to blame with a poor tier structure of computers that handicaps everything below the top Powermac. Why not a machine with the fastest single G5 and video card SLOT? playing games in their stupid tier has ran off 98% of the world. Removing their product from everystore in the world but those few Apple stores has ran off 98% of the world. Clinging on to obsolete and old Cpu's has ran off 98% of the world. Not building a machine for the consumer but forcing high end powermac or all in one nonsense has ran off 98% of the world. Overpriced obsolete hardware that isnt competetive ran off 98 % of those new sales. Apple has some big problems and arrogance may be the biggest. Yeah they got money in the bank but dont even have a endcap display in Best Buy,Sears,WalMart,etc etc etc.................You arent going to bump into a Mac product anywhere unless you look veryhard or are after a freaking Pod. These are their problems and until corrected expect more of the same when it comes to marketshare.
     
  10. Liquidog thread starter macrumors member

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    #10
    Well DontHurtMe, the reason I started this thread was to test the proposition that "less marketshare is bad, and Apple is trying to get more marketshare". You seem to have skipped that and just agreed with the common thought that I am trying to examine. Seriously, do you really think 2% is so bad when they have piles of money? After all this is 2% of A HUGE MARKET. Literally millions upon millions own computers, I'm sure. At least in America. If it was 2% of the toaster market, ok, maybe they'd be in trouble. Saying "it's all their own fault" really doesn't say anything, because that's precisely what I'm suggesting - they have a lower marketshare on purpose. Don't you think that since the strategy has worked up till now, that it might actually be a strategy and not a mistake? Honestly, if Apple is as stupid as the marketshare lovers say it is, it wouldn't be around today. Don't you think?
     
  11. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #11
    I disagree that Apple intends to maintain a 2% marketshare. However, like I said before, they aren't trying to dethrone Wintel either. I think Apple is convinced that it can sell a lot more Macs than currently AND retain the benefits of having an "niche" product while giving mac users more options.
     
  12. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #12
    Look they have lots of money and no market so they need to find a happy medium or perhaps this is right where they want to be? all i know is that i wanted a consumer tower for years 1 fast cpu and a video card slot but Apple would have non of that. Many here at rumors have expressed this same thing in the past.

    When you own 2% market it affects everything, developers, videocard makers, software makers, hardware makers and most of all the consumer.Then you have to ask yourself as a supplier is it worth it to bother to go after that 2% or should i just skip it and concentrate on 98% of the world. My point is Apple has gone to the bottom in new sales and sooner or later a meager marketshare will bite them! If it wasnt so you wouldnt be hearing all these rumors of a new headless imac would you??? It would be like we have plenty of money and we dont need that part of the market. Didnt Jobs say something like that a year or two ago? But today the rumor mill is rampant on a cheap Mac ,something Jobs said he wanted no part of. Pod has bought them a little time and maybe they are changing course to correct this. Consumer is King and maybe it took awhile for Apple to get this.
     
  13. Liquidog thread starter macrumors member

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    #13
    Sooner or later it's going to bite them? They've had a tiny marketshare for years! WHEN is this going to get them? You make the point that developers get tired of developing for 2% of the PC market, namely apple owners. That's true, and that's why there are companies like Griffin that focus entirely on the mac. Is Griffin about to tank because they only have 2% of the market to sell products to? No. So why is Apple going to tank "sooner or later"? Because they have 2% marketshare?
    Your complaint, and the complaint of many others, about marketshare really stems from your desire for a less expensive, yet equally capable mac without a built in monitor. You really just want a cheaper powermac, and a better selection of video cards. That would be accomplished through a greater marketshare for Apple. I'm right there with you! I can't wait for this headless iMac or Q88 or whatever it's going to be called. But I think that claiming 2% marketshare is going to kill Apple flies in the face of decades of their OBVIOUSLY successful corporate strategy.
     
  14. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #14
    I wonder how long you have used Macs. They didnt allways have 2%. look it up and i never said they would tank what said was this small amount of market matters in a lot of ways.
     
  15. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #15
    If they have plenty of money, they don't need a big marketshare. The point is, shareholders will always demand that Apple make even more money. The question: what's the best way to make the most money -- increase marketshare or sell "luxury" products?
     
  16. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #16
    I looked for myself. They had a few other iPod accessories (Belkin Battery and a few others). I also asked the rep at customer service. After pounding on his computer, he said "this" Best Buy only carries the USB 2.0 cable. Who knows.

    Go to Best Buy's website and type in "iPod cable". You won't see the firewire cable.
     
  17. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #17
    how about both? Man i just hope they give up the all in one vs Powermac game they have played for years. Its part of the reason for 2% market. Maybe they will think different and build a machine to fit the customer not a machine that the customer must fit.
     
  18. applebum macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Yeah - saw a good one last night. It was called "Meet the Fockers" 2 wonderful G4 iMacs and a powerbook. Seems like most movies I watch have a Mac of some sort. Also, if you were to ever watch a design show on TV, either the designer or the client will usually have some sort of Mac that is highly visible.

    Besides that, I am a perfect example of why Marketshare means squat! I have 5 Macs, and I am pretty sure that only 1 of them would have shown up in a marketshare report for the last 2 years. I have a G3 iMac that I bought in 2000. I have a G4 Sawtooth that I bought 2 years ago; however, I bought it used so it would not show up in new sales. Last spring I bought my iBook, but it is a G3 and was bought after the G4's came out - would it have shown up in a marketshare report for last year? In Jan of last year I bought my eMac. It would count. Last month, I bought my mom an eMac for Christmas. I bought it refurbed from Apple - I don't think it would show up in "new" sales since it was refurbed. I also bought my sister a Win PC in Oct (cheapie from Walmart). The only reason it wasn't a Mac is she needed a PC in order to work at home - next one she gets from me is a Mac. I bought 3 Macs last year and 1 PC, yet for new marketshare, it looks like I bought 1 of each. If there is a company out there that would not make Mac products based solely on marketshare, then they don't have much sense. There are an awful lot of Macs out there that won't show up in marketshare numbers.
     
  19. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #19
    Marketshare numbers i talk about are new sales. take every sale how many are Macs= 2% no spin , no talk about user base blah blah blah. I currently have 2 Macs in my house imac500 ,quicksilver 1.4 G4 , and a real gaming Machine a Alienware Aurora 3500+ with socket 939 and a 6800 Gt in it. laughs at all new titles including Doom3 and Halflife2 and Pacific fighters!Yeah baby yeah!
     
  20. Liquidog thread starter macrumors member

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    #20
    DHM, I've used Macs for a couple years now, though I don't have one now (due to unlucky circumstances.) I think I see what you're saying about a balance between making money with a luxury approach and making money with the PC approach, which is selling a huge amount of computers at razor thin margins. I don't have any business degrees, but I have to speculate that a happy medium there is really difficult to achieve. What are they going to market themselves as? They've been working on the "cool unique outsider" thing for quite a while now, which has enabled them to do really well with only 2% marketshare. Suppose that marketshare doubles, triples, suppose this new mac puts them at 10%? How will they market their brand when all of a sudden 5 times as many people are buying the products? Not that I expect you to actually be able to answer that, you're not a marketing consultant, (correct me if I'm wrong here.) The point is that it costs millions to put together an ad campaign, even one with few commercials and some movie spots, like meet the fockers. Their ad campaign has grown into corporate image: they are the cool outsiders. And it extends to the customers too. So really what you're saying is not, why can't they introduce a cheaper mac? What you're actually asking them to do is CHANGE THE ENTIRE IMAGE OF THE COMPANY, CHANGE HOW THEY FIT INTO THE MARKETPLACE, AND CHANGE HOW EVERY SINGLE APPLE COMPUTER OWNER FEELS ABOUT THEM. Such a change doesn't just happen overnight with a PM G5 with a slick graphics card. Such a change takes years and millions of dollars to accomplish, and I don't blame them for sticking with what works, despite what a relatively small amount of hardcore gamers thinks. (And if you think you represent the majority with your top of the line Alienware box, you are very sadly mistaken.) All of these marketing and image questions are the real reason we have been denied something like the "headless imac" for so long, and all of these reasons are going to make Tuesday's keynote potentially HISTORIC for the company.
     
  21. Agathon macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    The marketshare statistics are somewhat misleading.

    At the main library at my university there is a huge computer information commons with at least 100 Dells. The rest of the library has many terminals (about 10-20 per floor) for catalogue access. All these machines are cheap with the minimum of software installed for students to access webmail, the net, and the library catalogue and services. These machines are unreliable rubbish, but they do the job well enough for the price.

    Why would the university spend vastly larger sums of money to equip the library with emacs (which would actually save space)? They won't, because they just need basic machines in large volumes for limited purposes.

    Apple does not compete in this market.

    On the other hand, there are labs full of G5s at my university which are there for specialty uses like graphics and other stuff I have no idea of.

    Go to your local supermarket and have a look at the dedicated computers that run the checkouts. They're Dells too. There are a lot of them at my local supermarket. Again, there is no reason for a company to pay the Apple price for lower end macs that come with software they will never use and a graphical interface they will never use.

    Apple does not compete in this market for obvious reasons.

    Any business or institution that wants cheap computers that are "good enough" is not going to look at Apple. Neither does Apple seem interested in selling macs to them.

    Marketshare statistics ignore the huge number of computers that are sold to perform mundane tasks like those in my university library. They also ignore the fact that Apple only competes in some markets.

    So take out all the computers sold to banks, other businesses and anywhere where cheap generic computers are the norm, and focus on categories where Apple actually competes (advertising, multimedia, home use, education, publishing, etc.) and they aren't doing so bad.
     
  22. mactropy macrumors member

    mactropy

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    #22
    I definitely second that. The pure sales figures do not seem to be an indication of general availability to, for example, university students.
    Also, a company like Mercedes Benz has a higher market share in certain categories (luxury, S-class) than in others (mid-consumer, A-class).
    It's all relative . . .
     
  23. Liquidog thread starter macrumors member

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    #23
    Excellent point, Agathon. I think I'd even be a little sad if I saw a mac being used as a cash register. I'm no elitist, but the supermarket? Come on.
     
  24. asif786 macrumors 65816

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    #24
    perosnally, i thinka pple could survive with their current marketshare forever - we mac users are very loyal. the concept of apple going bust (financially) are almost impossible.

    apple is a niche/elite brand - hey, the computers are a little expensive, but tbh i dont want to see them become dirt cheap - i like being having a computer thats shown in all the tv shows, that everybody looks at. call it snobby, call it elitist - you're probably right..but hey.

    apple has always been seen as a trendy/expensive brand - i hope they dont lose those 'qualities' for a few more cheapy pc customers. sure it would be nice to have 5% marketshare, but all in good time. there's no rush, apple.

    /asif
     
  25. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

    BornAgainMac

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    #25
    Market Share Accurate?

    It blows me away that it is only 2%. 2% of what? I see so many people that have Macs that I am beginning to wonder if 2% includes PCs used in refrigerators or bank teller machines. What is the percentage of Macs for computers over $1,000? What is the percentage of Macs used to create music, video, or web content? What percentage of Windows users are really power users that do real work that I respect compared to the Windows users that just buy what they are told to buy and don't have a clue?
     

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