the bible vs. the volcano

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    link

     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    Meanwhile the rest of us shake our heads in disbelief...

    The Handmaid's Tale
     
  3. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #3
    If only the book of Genesis started something like this (I wrote the following text back in 1999):

    Evolution and creationism could get along just fine if only the Bible started like this.
     
  4. iGav macrumors G3

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    #4

    hahahahaha brilliant... ;) :p what did you write that for? Not R.E. I hope... heheheheh :p :p :p
     
  5. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    heh heh.

    and i'll add:
    On the Seventh Day, He watched The Simpsons and enjoyed the advertisements featuring topless women.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    Not quite. There's still the tiny question of "god"... :rolleyes:
     
  7. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #7
    I don't know what "R.E." is... no, I wrote this in an attempt to defuse a nasty online argument between some hard-core evolutionists and some equally hard-core creationists. The fact is, the explanation of "God the Ultimate Scientist" makes sense in a lot of ways... the big problem is that there are a lot of people who take the Bible literally (7 days, it only happened 6000 years ago, etc.). But there are a lot of people who believe in God (Bible) and ALSO believe in evolution (science), accepting the explanation that the beginning of the Bible is either metaphorical (7 days = 7 epochs in the history of the Universe) or was just written down by people who were uneducated in the ways of science.

    Oh, and I do NOT myself believe in the concept of "intelligent design". I tend to believe more in the anthropic principle, which states that we are here because conditions are the way they are (if they were different, we would not be here). You can credit God with that, or not... it doesn't really matter to me. But I reject the whole idea that the world and the Universe were created a mere 6000 years ago... the physical evidence doesn't back it up at all.
     
  8. brap macrumors 68000

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    #8
    ...and what a stroke of luck that was!

    ;)
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  11. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #11
    I guess I've been around too many geologists and paleontologists to go for the "6,000 years" shtick. But, how many billion human years in a God's day? I dunno.

    My sense of humor often creates minor pandemonium, particularly in the Bible Belt. Back in the early days of manned space flight, one of the astronauts radioed back that he had seen God. He was pressed for details, but declined to say further until after his return. So, splashdown and the trip to the carrier. Radio, TV, newspapers: All were there.

    "Tell us, tell us, what is God like?"

    "Well, she's black."

    :D, 'Rat
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  13. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #13
    I believe the following.... and note when you read it that I am a humanist, a rationalist and a metaphysicist with a firm belief in scientific theorems such as the laws of physics et al.

    In the beginning there was God. This would be the physicists' "void of infinite potential" Through the process of self-reflection this entity underwent a form of rapid, expansive mitosis resulting in the Universe we know and love. This leaves God as the underlying conscious core of all manifest creation while still allowing the detailed and thorough investigations of modern science to be true. This is a "yes, and" arguement in which both sides are inherently correct.

    There are some interesting side effects to this hypothesis, chiefly that nothing can ever be "against God's will" as the whole kit and caboodle is made up of kernels of the original entity. Each organism is a powerful, compound manifestation of the original; the more "conscious" and self-reflective an organism is the more like the original it becomes, making the issue of free-will paradox moot.

    The implications are enormous. Under this hypothesis EVERYTHING is part of the Holy Dream of God's own (now subconscious) evolution. It also means that THERE IS NOTHING BUT GOD. Peterist pantheon not withstanding. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #14
    but isn't saying that there was a god originally but it transformed itself into the universe as we know it, without a following possibilty of deliberate intervention essentially the same as saying that there is no god?
     
  15. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #15
    Not at all. Since God knows everything, it stands to reason that the Universe could, in fact, be the mind of God, and we may inhabit just a small part of it.

    The real problem is that you can never REALLY prove the existence OR non-existence of God. Any entity for which existence could be proved might just be pretending to be God, and you can't prove that a particular entity does NOT exist. As DNA wrote in HHGTTG, "'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'"
     
  16. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #16
    Not even slightly. I assume that since everyone and everything shares a holographic (complete) fragment of the original, the mind of God is implicit in everything. This means that going against God is a physical impossibility but it also means that free will is inescapable.

    ie: Deliberate intervention happens all the time. This is the evolution of consciousness. The Maya had a good system for tracking this evolution. It just happens in more subtle ways than makes for good legendry (storytelling).
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    Isn't this really resurrecting the "Idea of Progress"? Do you believe our consciousnesses have "evolved" over time? I see little evidence.
     
  18. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #18
    "But," says Man, "the Macintosh is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

    "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
    ;)
     
  19. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #19
    the 7 days are not literal

    ...so here's how it goes:

    day 1: god creates america

    day 2: god creates goerge hw bush

    day 3: god creates barbara bush for george hw bush

    day 4: the high angel goes up to barbara in boston, and tells her that she will have a child and that he will be called dubya and y'all move to the promise land, which is texas

    day 5: all school admissions counselors will magically let dubya get into and graduate from andover, yale, and harvard business school

    day 6: dubya will become governor of the promise land of texas

    day 7: well, we are in the thick of it now
     
  20. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #20
    I don't think that a Mac and a Babel Fish are really in the same league, do you?

    "Oh, that was easy," says Man, who then goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed at a zebra crossing. Meanwhile, the poor Babel Fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of Creation.

    (All that from memory!)
     
  21. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #21
    God also put the appearance of age into:

    1) the republican party...even though the democrats came first, the republicans still call themselves the grand old party

    2) dubya...he's really just a young kid, a spoiled brat

    3) barbara bush...well, that one is very obvious
     
  22. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #22
    I am tired of those that try to restrict information.

    I may not support the "Right" on most of their agenda, but as long as it does not become the "majority" trying to rule the "minority", only do to lack of "voice".
     
  23. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    indeed. i don't recall any secular groups trying to shut down showings of the Passion because it failed to mention evolution.
     
  24. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #24
    Global realtime communication= Babelfish. Yes, we are evolving.
     

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