The Blue Apple

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by broken_keyboard, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #1
    The Blue Apple is always there no matter what program you are running. It represents OS X, which is also there no matter what program you are running.

    Logically, you should start new programs from that menu. What is the dock? When I try to kill it, it restarts.
     
  2. mpw Guest

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    #2
    Like the Start key on a PC you mean? The dock performs the functions the task bar does without the clock and status indicators just a better looking version.
     
  3. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #3
    Your being kind of vague. Are you telling us or asking us. As for the Apple, it just a main-point for the menu bar. It has your recent items, access to certain things as well as the sleep, restart and shut down. Application menus appear to the right of it.

    As for the dock, no getting rid of it. If your not a fan of it I recommend doing this. Remove every icon you can, which would leave the trash and the finder icon. Make it really small and turn on auto hide. You will hardly notice it now.

    jon
     
  4. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #4
    I am just saying that since the OS launch apps, the blue apple should launch apps. It would be a more consistent model. The dock should be scrapped or else be a pure window management tool, with the right side but not the left side.
     
  5. timnosenzo macrumors 6502a

    timnosenzo

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    #5
    I disagree. The Apple menu is for general management, and the dock can be used to launch programs or just show which programs are running. I think that the dock is customizable enough to fit most peoples needs.
     
  6. Littleodie914 macrumors 68000

    Littleodie914

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    #6
    I don't quite understand what you're saying... The OS launches apps, so the blue apple should launch apps? :confused: The apple menu is a shortcut to get to the "special" things... Like shutdown, restart, system prefs., logout, etc. The dock is used to launch applications, and does a very nice job. I don't see the problem I guess...
     
  7. Mark James macrumors regular

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    #7
    The OSX Apple Menu in its default state is indeed crap.

    Get Fruit Menu or Classic Menu for 'proper' ole time Apple Menu functionality.
     
  8. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #8
    The OS is a program that is always running, managing the other programs. No matter what program you switch to, the OS is always there.

    Now think of the apple menu. No matter what app you switch to, all the other menus change but the blue apple is constant. It is a visual representation of the fact an OS. It should be where app launching is done from.
     
  9. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #9
    I never owned a Mac is the days of OS9 but I'll check 'em out. I do like the look of OS9 when I see it though.
     
  10. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #10
    If you want to permanently get rid of the Dock, go to System>Library>CoreServices then select the Dock icon. Click on File>Get Info; next click on the Ownership & Permissions tab, then on the Details tab. Click on the lock icon and change the Owner to you username. Enter your password. Then go back to Ownership & Permissions and click on 'No Access'.

    Now restart.
     
  11. Makosuke macrumors 603

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    #11
    I follow your logic, but I disagree. From my point of view, application launching is too broad a part of the OS--encompasing the same design system as opening documents, and requiring a lot of user flexibility--to be considered part of an immutable "core", even if it is in reality the main point of the OS.

    The Apple menu is instead a place for always-available "system" level functions--things that are a central part of the operantion of the computer, and specifically not something the user can (ordinarily) manipulate. In that way, it makes perfect sense to keep Applications (other than recent items, which by that tolken doesn't even quite belong there) out of the Apple menu.

    Think of it like this: The OS "owns" the content of the Apple menu, and so it never changes and is not user-controlled. The Dock, on the other hand, is the central hub for applications and quick access that the user does have partial control over, hence its flexibility.

    What you're picturing is what was the old Application menu (it was on the far right of the menu bar), which used to show what was running, what app was in front, and let you switch between anything open. That wasn't a bad design idea, but after I adjusted to the Dock I've started to prefer it to shareware that re-creates that functionality; when there's something I put in the Dock, it's always in the same place whether it's open or not, so I never need to hunt.

    Likewise applications have now been given their own named menu, their analogy to the system's always-the-same Apple menu, which makes a lot more sense than having Quit in the File menu like it used to be.

    The old Apple menu, by the way, used to hold a lot of small application tools, but you could put absolutely anything in there. In that way, the Dock is like a combination of the old Application and Apple menus, and although there was some convienence to the old way, it could also get VERY messy (particularly now that you can have hundreds of apps installed and dozens open simultaneously), and it was very inconsistent from system to system. I've grown to appreciate the Dock as an alternative.

    Now if only you could easily lock custom-added Dock icons to prevent novice users from accidentally removing them.
     
  12. ChrisFromCanada macrumors 65816

    ChrisFromCanada

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    #12
    I am afraid that you are still thinking like a windows user. It is probably time to "unlearn" your old ways. Forget about the start menu. Probably 99% of OS X users use the dock and it is very efficient.
     
  13. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

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    #13
    Uhm ... but the apple menu is not supposed to be a visual representation of the entire OS ... I don't know why you insist on that mental picture.

    The dock is just as permanent as the apple menu and is just as much a part of the OS as the apple menu is.

    I see the Apple menu as a collection of OS configuration and maintenance tasks. The Dock is for use, productivity and work. Since launching applications is part of these tasks it seems natural that App launching is done from here.
     
  14. Mark James macrumors regular

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    #14
    No, no it's not.

    My Classic Menu has a 'Select Apps' folder containing perhaps a dozen aliases, an 'OS9 Apps' folder, and an alias of the 'Applications' folder itself. I can open any application or utility via the Classic Menu: just drag through the folder heirarchy and release. How do *you* open an infrequently used application?
     
  15. munkle macrumors 68030

    munkle

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    #15
    Quicksilver...a couple of keystrokes and I'm done ;)
     
  16. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #16
    By constrast to what is it permanent? The apple menu stays the same in the face of all the other menus changing. Sure the dock is always there, what there are not other things the same that change.
     
  17. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #17
    I disagree. The Apple menu is still a menu, and the idea of menus is that you don't don't know the direct access keystroke so you use the menus to browse all the things it can do. The OS can launch apps so it should be in the OS menu.
     
  18. Mark James macrumors regular

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    #18
    Exactly.

    broken_keyboard, have a look here: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/dock.ars

    The existence of so many toys is evidence that the non-customisable Apple Menu and the Fisher Price Dock are not enough.
     
  19. Sabbath macrumors 6502a

    Sabbath

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    #19
    The simple answer would be drap the applications folder to the right side of the dock and control click on it to list all you applications in a "menu form" ie a list. Although I'm sure you know this and what you are actually saying is that you personally prefer the old way.

    In answer to the thread in general, I quite like the dock, much more than desktop aliases, or windows type start menu lists. I see the blue apple as a menu bar menu for the OS. So its effectively like clicking on the program name in the menu bar, you can quit the OS, you can update the OS, you can set preferences, you can find out about the OS etc. If you think of it this way it is actually remarkably consistent with between OS and apps even in the order things are listed ie. about this mac (or app), update the OS (check for updates in many apps), system preferences (app preferences), sleep, restart, quit and log off options (hide app, quit app etc.). In fact the only thing which is really out of place is the recent items list, this would be under file in an app. But I think we do need somewhere to view our recent files.

    I admit the dock isn't a perfect implementation, but I think its better than the start button programs type you get in windows. I wouldn't be surprised to see apple do some work on this area.
     
  20. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #20
    I am not thinking of Windows at all, I am thinking of having a correct visual representation of what is going on inside the computer. You might say the clear part of the dock is a representation of the OS since it is omnipresent and surrounds the apps, but as I said the omnipresence isn't emphasized the same as with the Apple menu. Having an Apple menu and and Dock is too confusing since there are not two OS! And drawing a visual line from the Apple menu to the Dock is too visually poor. Woe is me.
     
  21. broken_keyboard thread starter macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #21
  22. Mark James macrumors regular

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    #22
    I ran for a while with my User and Applications folders on the Dock, but 'I prefer the old way' probably sums it (me?) up.

    Now that we have a nice 'apple-tab' application switcher, I could happily live without the Dock altogether. Would be a good idea to get the Trash icon on my desktop before doing so, of course...
     
  23. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #23
    Your preference does not translate into logic. As a Mac user since System 6, my preference is to launch apps by double-clicking on a document. I prefer to let the Finder take care of launching my applications. The behavior that you desire reveals of your preference for Windows and its Start menu.
     
  24. Sabbath macrumors 6502a

    Sabbath

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    #24
    I see what you mean, there is no way to get rid of the dock and keep the trash can, which should really be an option for those who want it. Especially now with expose reveal desktop making it much easier to drop things into folders (trash) on the desktop.
     
  25. cleo macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #25
    If you use the Dock "out-of-the-box," you're right, it's not terribly helpful. But the whole point of the Dock is that it's about as customizable as *anything* any OS gives the user control over.

    Indeed, you can do exactly what you're describing from the Dock: simply drag the Applications folder to the Dock (next to the Trash), and then from one icon you can easily find what you're looking for. Alternatively, you can create folders of aliases and drag those to the Dock. For example, I have a folder for my games, one for productivity apps, etc.
     

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