The Borg vs. the SW Empire

Discussion in 'Community' started by Kethoticus, Oct 20, 2002.

  1. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #1
    This will get lotsa people on both sides of the sci-fi fence defending their favorite imaginary universe, but this is my take on it.

    In spite of the Federation's success against the Borg, I feel that the Borg would eventually defeat and assimilate the SW Empire. Here's my scenario:

    Borg cube detects a massive, artificial satellite. The complexity of the technology intrigues them. They move into the defensive perimeter of the Death Star, encountering warnings from a fleet of star destroyers to leave their space or be destroyed. The Borg do not respond, but instead continue to move in. The star destroyers begin to open fire, but their laser cannons are no match for the Borg shields. The Borg fire back.

    They take out segments of several star destroyers, analyzing and assimilating the technology, converting the corpses into organic nutrients for the collective. Tie fighters swarm the Borg vessel, but they are slowly swatted out like flies--or ignored entirely. Several star destroyers are completely destroyed. Others receive "visitors" from the Borg vessel, employing dematerialization--something the Empire is stunned by. The Borg gather tactical information on the fleet, but find the Death Star's specs encrypted and quite secure. But the relentless Borg do not give up.

    With the fleet wrecked, only a handful of tie fighters left, the Death Star begins to rotate in the direction of the Cube. The Emperor has given the order to prepare their doomsday weapon. He is notified that they too have received Borg scouts. He senses a powerful mind coming from the cube, and he determines why--it is the minds of the hundreds of thousands of Borg soldiers acting as one. He can not use the Force so easily here. He depends on his technological marvel instead.

    The scouts gather their tactical information of the Death Star, and beam back to their ship. They send a message to the Death Star. A concerned and curious Emperor gives the order to let it through. "We have analyzed your defensive capabilities as unable to withstand us. If you attempt to defend yourselves, you will be punished."

    Emperor Palpatine responds: "Who..." He is cut off. Out of his swelling anger and hatred, Emp Palpatine gives the command: "Fire into the heart of that ship, commander!" He does.

    A brilliant green flash emanates from the giant sphere. The cube is obliterated. The emperor gives the order to scan for additional cubes, but none are found. His concern now is that rebel forces will be able to take advantage of a depleted imperial military, so he gives the order to regroup and rebuild as quickly as possible.

    6 months later...

    A new Borg cube enters into imperial space. Many star destroyers have been reconstructed and now have advanced weaponry. But they are still no match for the Borg. After some minimal damage to the cube, they adapt and become impervious yet again. The emperor wastes no time this time. He doesn't want his healing fleet to suffer any more damage. He gives the order to blow this cube out of the sky--again.

    Their super-weapon powers up. A dozen or so individual green beams unite into one and strike the Borg cube. A brilliant yellow-green flash emanates from the strike point--but the massive, industrial-looking cube is undamaged. A sense of dread comes over the emperor and Darth Vader--these people have the ability to adapt! They need to depend on the Force.

    The cube moves in and fires its energy weapons at several key points, eventually knocking out the shields and great weapon of the Death Star. They are toothless. The Borg cube begins to laser-out chunks of the Death Star, digesting them. Borg soldiers beam onto the Death Star in large numbers, easily overpowering and assimilating many storm troopers. They also begin to assimilate the Death Star itself. The order was given to put the Death Star into self-destruct mode, but it was too late. The Borg had taken control of the computers.

    The Emperor and Darth Vader try to use mind control to stop the individual Borg soldiers, but are no match for the power of their collective mind. They're able to strike a few down with light sabres and energy bursts from their hands. But the Borg adapt quickly. Their only recourse is to escape.

    Within weeks, the empire becomes a massive Borg colony. No more life on any imperial or rebel planets--except for Borg. The Borg have won. The Jedi and other surviving members of the empire and rebel forces have run for their lives. But the society they once knew is gone. Their only hope is to regroup elsewhere and try to rebuild their civilization--as far from the Borg as possible.
     
  2. britboy macrumors 68030

    britboy

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    #2
    You always were a strange one kethoticus...... :rolleyes: Did you by any chance have a little too much time on your hands?

    You forgot one thing though: the borg gain the powers of those they assimilate. Therefore, by assimilating the emperor and darth vader, they too would have the ability to use the force. Thousands of borg, all with a perfect control of the dark side of the force, would easily be able to seek out the remaining jedy (just as Yoda was able to feel the disturbances in the force when a jedi was in action, even on different planets), and destroy/assimilate them. This would clearly mean that the jedi would be exterminated, once and for all! :D
     
  3. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #3
    borg go BOOM!

    1 Mind, or many minds, it makes no difference in the ways of the Force. 1 Borg drone gets to the Death Star, the Emporer mind controls that drone+all others in direct contact. Soon, the whole borg race is destroied. Remember in the imortal word of Yoda: "Size matters not."
     
  4. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #4
    Hmmmm........

    Borg Success really would depend on where in the SW chronology they emerged. At the point of Episode 3 (1st DeathStar) the result would likely be Borg victory.....at first.

    In assimilating a cloned Sith and his apprentice Dark Jedi they would immediately begin to splinter as the very natures of the Borg collective and the Dark Side ate away at each other like a Cancer. Assimilation of the incredibly selfish and nihilistic Sith would be the ultimate behavioural virus for the Borg.

    The requisite Compassion/nihilistic Hatred inherent in Force Awareness would be like plugging a rat into a lightsocket via it's hindbrain: The Collective would be lobotomized by a vast new data-set it is totally unequipped to process.

    Had the Collective emerged into the 1st Sith/Jedi War at the peak of Sith Power and Jedi talent there would have been some heavy **** go down. With both sides of the Force available for simultanious sampling the Borg would have a very slim chance of emerging as "Grey" Jedi.... Functionally walking the tightwire between sides. Ultimately Assimilating Force Awareness would be the Borg's undoing.
     
  5. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #5
    That's all well and good - but the Klingons could probably take out the Death Star if they could assemble a nice armada. The Tie Fighters wouldn't do much of anything to the shields of the Battle Cruisers - and the Force (SW4, say) wasn't used by enough entities to have been any matter in the outcome. Even if Darth Vader could have managed to get on board the Klingon Flag vessel, it would be too late.

    As for the Borg and the Force - well, wouldn't you have to have some sort of awareness of your own relationship to the Force? No sense of uniqueness, 'I', the Borg would consider the Force irrelevant and plow on ahead, unless Darth or the Emperor could get control of the Borg through one member. That would be freaky - because then the Empire would end up enslaving the Borg. Or if Yoda or Obi-Wan got to them first.

    D
     
  6. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Assimilating The Force

    You are all assuming that the Borg could assimilate The Force. The borg have assimilated telepathic races before, but they don't have telepathy. What makes you think The Force would be easier?


    God, I love these absolutely fictional, pointless debates, don't you:D
     
  7. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #7
    that'd exactly it D.

    Being that the given scenario allows for both Palpatine AND Vader being present (so I guess it's really the Second DeathStar) 2 of the baddest Ass Sith ever to commit an atrocity would be that immediate individualism. Darkies are entirely self-referential.

    Either Assimilation would kill them, they would Dominate that one Cube or Force Awareness would spread with cataloging and backing up the "self" of Vader or Palplatine. The issue is that the very essence of the Sith would either really dick with at least that 1 Cube or the process of assimilation would fail and both adepts would die in the process..... their Force Essence would then haunt the Cube though.... and that would SUCK.

    I think the Klingons are a good choice for facing the Empire's war machines but they would be using Force as raw combat "chi" pretty darn fast after entering that Universe. A Lightsaberized Batlith (sp?) ......Ick.

    The really bad news would be the Borg assimilating a Jedi Padawan, Force aware but not totally trained.

    Worse yet: Picture Romulans capturing and effectively merging with the Empire.
     
  8. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #8
    Re: Assimilating The Force

    See: I always guessed that the Borg were only viable because they had either started out as or assimilated early a powerful Telepathic Race. The reason I figure this is the case is that in order to have collective consciousness in any fuctional way you'd need the "splitting of mind" neccesary for Telepathy. I always guessed that The Borg were an embarassing Vulcan State Secret gone horribly wrong.:D :eek:
     
  9. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #9
    Re: that'd exactly it D.

    I almost mentioned them, they'd do as good a job as the Klingons, but more subtly, not with force of weapons, but by stealth. Although, Vader or Palpatine would be able to guide the Death Star Weapons to hit a cloaked Romulan ship. It'd be interesting as well.
     
  10. diorio macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Yes, I think the borg would win, just because of their ability to adapt. While I like both Star Trek and Star Wars, I find Star Trek to be a little more realistic, just because it is based from Earth and Earthlings. Star Wars is based on a long time ago in a galaxy far far away... Far away from what? Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, Star Trek is just a little more realistic, more science based.
     
  11. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Since we are going there.

    All you'd need is a single Enterprise-E. Firering photon torpedos at Warp 5, it's not even a contest. Talk about "Drive by shooting":D For that matter, any of the major powers in ST would have an easy time in the SW universe, as long as they didn't mess around with negotiating. Even a Sith Lord, dies in the vacuum of space.
     
  12. diorio macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Re: Since we are going there.

    Yes, an Army of Clones isn't going to stand up very well against a couple of Romulan Warbirds or Klingon Birds of Prey.
     
  13. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #13
    There are better matches out there:

    How about SW versus Dune?

    OR

    ST vs. Predator/Alien

    OR

    Highlanders in SW?:eek:

    Got it: Aliens Versus Borg. Battle of the Hive Minds.:D :rolleyes:
     
  14. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    #14
    It's no contest. A ST ship can take out anything without shields. Eg. Bablyon 5 ships, SW ships, etc. They just need to beam some bombs/photon torpedos to the engine cores of the ships. BAAAAM! They're gone. With this in mind, a little shuttlecraft with a big ass fission/fusion bomb can probably take out a star destroyer.
     
  15. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    #15
    The Sun Crusher from the Jedi Academy series and I, Jedi would be the most powerful weapon. It was fired upon by the death star and was only thrown off course. It could destroy suns with it's torpedos, and if flown by a jedi, it would be unstoppable.
     
  16. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

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    #16
    The Interdictors from the Empire, and special rebel frigates can prevent ships from going into hyperspace/warp by powering up gravity wells. They could be destroyed by being attacked while being held at bay.

    IMHO, the ST weapons/technology are MUCH more far-fetched than their SW counterparts.
     
  17. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #17
    Re: There are better matches out there:

    Well that would depend on who from the Dune universe you're talking about. The fremen with Paul as their leader are very crafty and could possibly seize control of the Empire or Republic. Imagine if Paul became force aware, the Kwisatz Haderach with a lightsaber!

    The prior Imperium in Dune would not fare so well, as politics would limit them from being effective enough to defeat the Empire. Not to mention that the Spacing Guild would most likely make a deal with Palpatine to assist in overthrowing the golden lion throne in exchange for Arrakis.
     
  18. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #18
    I had a group in mind:

    The "Honoured Matres". BG on crack versus the Sith controlled Empire of Episodes 4-7.:eek:
     
  19. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #19
    Re: I had a group in mind:

    I think the Honored Matres would tear the empire to shreds. Especially when they catch wind of the death stars.
     
  20. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #20
    But if you think about it, Vader is a Borg without the Collective....

    But different universes, different laws. The whole thing about gravity wells and hyperdrive doesn't really apply to ST, in ST if you go to warp around a sun you get to do some Time Travel.....

    So with transporter powers, well, that would be enough to finish the job. Transport bombs, people, etc. anywhere. Game over man!

    D
     
  21. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #21
    Please, elaborate on this observation?

    As to the conflicting Physics sets: I'm working with the classic Comic-book handicap rules: Host Universe's rules apply. Non-conflicting properties like Dune's Spice or the Borg's Nanites would carry. Dilithium, however would be limited to whatever they brought with them, this gives Romulan Tech a distinct advantage.

    Plus: Gravity well time travel was about Slingshot Effect boosting high-velocity hyperspatial ships past C in Hyperspace.

    Transporters would be either non-operable in a different Timespace or would be unreliable without a pad at both ends. There would be substantial "subspace noise" from the interstellar com-links used in SW. It'd be like using a Cellphone in a powerplant.

    Analyzing and comparing the 2 techs it becomes clear that only a few things set ST appart from SW: Weapon's use in FTL, FTL maneuvering, Transporters. The SW weapons systems are mostly of very similar types.... but for the beefier SW power supplies available in hardened installations. The killer App is of course the Force factor, Which ST races would be "Force enabled" to begin with? How would the over-the-top built in Sanity/Karma aspect of Force effect these races?

    For that matter: how comparable are the two Shields and Drive technologes? If the ST Shields are designed to prevent ANY intrusion when active than there would be a displacement and luminance issue in FTL travel. Not to mention the overall power level question.....

    Plus the styles of Battle change things:The Enterprise, knowing the Federation would attempt contact 1st thing and get taken.
     
  22. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #22
    1. Darth is part machine and part man - Borg like - that's all, nothing more profound, sorry.

    2. You're laying down your own rules on all of this - my assumption was that each tech would work, regardless. Rules just make things overly complicated and if it ever ended up a movie, well, there wouldn't be any explanation, unless it was something like the Heisenberg Compensators in ST - simple explanation for something that just isn't possible (that we know of, avoids problems of getting on with the movie).

    3. All depends on the Captain. Going to a new universe, well, shields would be up until things settled out. Kirk would end up fighting Darth Vader with a light saber and winning, and there would be a woman/alien involved. Picard, well, he'd come up with a solution somehow, through some prolonged and agonizing plot twist. Janeway, pretty much the same thing as Picard, but she would be loosing till the very end and then something would miraculously happen that would save the day. Sisco with the defiant and Odo (the trump card), would just handle it like it was just another day at the Wormhole....

    D
     
  23. Kethoticus thread starter macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #23
    Ahhhh...

    ....this is the kind of debate I was hoping to start. No arguments. Nothing serious here. Just fun speculation.

    Funny. I liked that, especially the part about Kirk and an alien babe.


    Hey.... here's one: Kirk vs. the Borg. I could picture him going into one of his dramatic, over-acted speeches that would short-circuit the entire Borg Collective, with Spock standing to his side, raising his eyebrow and going, "Fascinating." I mean, could you ever picture Kirk being assimilated as a spokesman for the Borg?
     
  24. Spock macrumors 68000

    Spock

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    #24
    Re: Re: Assimilating The Force

    No I don't think so.

    First the Borg would not destroy Star Destroyer's they would assimilate them. Second. if a Borg Cube were to be destroyed by the Deathstar The Borg would return in greater number's and overcome the Deathstar.
     
  25. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #25
    I agree with Spock. I don't see the Borg sending just one Cube, especially to assimilate an entire galaxy.
    We have seen the Borg attempt to assimilate another galaxy (unsuccessfully) with a spectacular number of cubes. The Death Star destroying a cube so easily would only cause the Borg to see how valuable it is and make them return in droves.
     

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