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mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,191
9
Adelaide, Australia
bursty said:
Hopefully they will surprise me.


That's it. Think positively. :D

Anything's better than the last few years (this one not included) of Michael leading his procession around the track for an hour or so. So long as they keep things spontaneous and don't let it become boring and predictable again, I'll keep watching.
 

bursty

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2004
1,002
5
mad jew said:
So long as they keep things spontaneous and don't let it become boring and predictable again, I'll keep watching.
I have to keep watching. I have no other alternative. Nascar? IRL? The only thing that comes close to F1 is LeMans. Everything else is just a waste of my time.
 

MacRy

macrumors 601
Apr 2, 2004
4,350
6,277
England
bursty said:
I have to keep watching. I have no other alternative. Nascar? IRL? The only thing that comes close to F1 is LeMans. Everything else is just a waste of my time.

Dear god mate, smoke something illegal or something. You seriously need to chill out a bit.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Bit bizarre was that race... especially Schu and Albers :eek: I'm surprised only Schu got reprimanded for that one (which I agree with) but WTF was Albers doing at race pace on his way to the grid? Unbelievable that he didn't get a rollicking as well though. :mad:

Cheeky tactics by Renault :p was LMAO when Fisi came in to the pits and backed the field up and Kimi was trying to find a way past, f**kin' brilliant... (even if it is against the rules) I bet Ron's face was a picture at that one. :p :p :p

Great drive by Alonso, he's really finished the season strongly... with what really should've been 2 wins, have to admit he's been as near faultless as can be expected this season, and his last 2 races have been very impressive.

I was surprised that McLaren failed to win the WCC, 2 races ago you'd have to say that they were odds on to win it, with by far and away the fastest car on the grid, but they just failed to capitalise on it in China, with Montoya being hobbled by having to qualifying first, and Kimi having a messy lap to end up 3rd on the grid.

The drain incident was bizarre... after hearing the damage it caused to Montoya's McLaren he was lucky he didn't drive STRAIGHT over it, otherwise.... ouch!!!! :eek:

Apart from that... great back straight, but a really crap circuit. We need more Suzuka's. :D
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,151
9
Tampere, Finland
bursty said:
The sound of a high revving V10 at 18k RPM is absolute heaven. I'm not sure I can say the same for V8s. Hopefully they will surprise me.

absolutely the same wording than about 12 years ago, when teams got rid of V12 engines - everyone said they're going to miss the high-revving V12's and really dissed the sound of V10's. remember? now the V10's have surprised everyone, and the +10-year-old ranting has become high praise.

we will be surprised again. and remember, the 80's turbo engines were V6's.
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,151
9
Tampere, Finland
iGav said:
The drain incident was bizarre...

it didn't surprise me that it happened to JPM - the guy just doesn't care how and where he drives. it was very clear that the cars before him had plenty of time to react, but JPM just drove over it. he can only blame himself, just as with the other "bizarre" incidents of the season.

the sole reason why kimi didn't win the WDC was the unreliability of his car, but the sole reason why mclaren didn't win the WCC was JPM. but you can take this as my opinion; there's a million and one different ways to speculate everything.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,191
9
Adelaide, Australia
I think the majority of the blame for the drain incident should rest on the track owner's shoulders. The same thing happened in a V8 Supercar (Australian touring cars) race earlier this year. I agree that Montoya can be careless, but loking at the replays I can't really see how he could have avoided it. :(
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,151
9
Tampere, Finland
mad jew said:
So long as they keep things spontaneous and don't let it become boring and predictable again, I'll keep watching.

it'll become spontaneous again once they ban all scheduled pit stops. at start time all cars should have tyres and fuel load for the whole race distance --> then every driver would have to overtake to gain positions. that'd spur spontaneity.
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,151
9
Tampere, Finland
mad jew said:
I agree that Montoya can be careless, but loking at the replays I can't really see how he could have avoided it. :(

he drove behind alonso and kimi, who both were able to react. if JPM's reaction is so much worse than others, then the F1 is not a right place for him.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,191
9
Adelaide, Australia
JFreak said:
it'll become spontaneous again once they ban all scheduled pit stops. at start time all cars should have tyres and fuel load for the whole race distance --> then every driver would have to overtake to gain positions. that'd spur spontaneity.


I don't see how removing pit stops would increase overtaking though. All it would mean is that the only way to change position is to overtake but that wouldn't necessarily make the racing better. I like the pit stops because they throw everything into disarray momentarily.

I reckon it'd be cool if they overhauled the points system. Reward consistency by giving points to lower placings. This would keep the cars further down the grid fighting for points so it's not just the frontrunners who fight for position.
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,151
9
Tampere, Finland
mad jew said:
I don't see how removing pit stops would increase overtaking though. All it would mean is that the only way to change position is to overtake but that wouldn't necessarily make the racing better. I like the pit stops because they throw everything into disarray momentarily.

well... you actually said it yourself, only that you didn't understand what you said. clearly it's easy to understand that if there are no pit stops without disasters, then the only way to improve positions will be overtaking. you just didn't think about the driver mentality -- they are there to win, and each of them thinks of being the best one out there.

currently the regulations put too much power to the teams and pit wall strategies, and take it away from the driver. they say when to spare fuel and when to attack, not the driver -- and that must change. remember in the 80's when the cars sometimes ran out of fuel? that was because driver decided he needed more power to overtake, and sometimes they just overdid it. but it was okay to lose because of too much racing, rather than losing because the pit crew made a mistake.

mad jew said:
I reckon it'd be cool if they overhauled the points system. Reward consistency by giving points to lower placings. This would keep the cars further down the grid fighting for points so it's not just the frontrunners who fight for position.

they have already overhauled the points system just that way, and it didn't improve racing. the best points system i can remember of was the 9-6-4-3-2-1 scheme, which rewarded victors, but not too much. the reason why the first loser now receives 8 points was because 10 points for victory was just too much in the era of a single dominant team. and now that the victory only gains two extra points, there is little incentive to take any risks in trying to overtake the race leader. currently it's just wiser to be the first loser, and that leads to bad racing. but were the first loser getting six points and the victor nine, then the runner-up would think about getting 50% more points for successful overtaking, and that incentive is (was) enough to spur good racing.

and what you said about giving points to lower finishers rewarding consistency... that's only half true. it'd reward mid-level and crappy teams, but on the other hand top teams would get punished about inconsistency; because, if for example 12 finishers were given points, then the victor would get AT LEAST 12 points, and the bigger the points haul, the bigger the punishment for a technical failure. with current points system you lose 12 points against your worst enemy should you retire from the lead position, but were there more points for victory, the retirement would cost even more. that will lead into teams taking it on the safe side, and not trying to do everything possible to be as fast as possible. and that leads into worse racing in the long run.

to repeat myself, the old 9-6-4-3-2-1 points system was great. if you were on 2nd place and took a risk, then you had a possibility to gain three and lose six points. currently you can gain two and lose eight. it's not rocket science, this current points system doesn't encourage racing.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Counterfit said:
I was always under the impression that they were I4's :confused: Of course, you're more likely to be right about it than me.

Some were 4 cylinders, particularly BMW's, others like Honda's were V6's.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,191
9
Adelaide, Australia
JFreak said:
clearly it's easy to understand that if there are no pit stops without disasters, then the only way to improve positions will be overtaking. you just didn't think about the driver mentality -- they are there to win, and each of them thinks of being the best one out there.


Yeah, that's a good point. I just don't think it'd make the drivers all that much hungrier for the win though.


JFreak said:
currently the regulations put too much power to the teams and pit wall strategies, and take it away from the driver.


Agreed. But having seen a few races without pit stops (not F1 but V8 Supercars) I can pretty safely say that they're boring as hell. V8s here offer some superb racing which is what I'm basing this reward-consistancy-with-points thing on and seeing them do a few rounds with no stops is horrendous. It turns great racing into processions. :(


JFreak said:
they have already overhauled the points system just that way, and it didn't improve racing.


True, but they only did a half-arsed attempt at it. If they went all out and gave points to last place and up I think we'd see better racing throughout the grid.


JFreak said:
and what you said about giving points to lower finishers rewarding consistency... that's only half true. it'd reward mid-level and crappy teams, but on the other hand top teams would get punished about inconsistency...


True again, but for anyone to get rewarded, others must be relatively punished just by definition. So avoiding this situation would mean making no changes, ever. :(

JFreak, you make some very good points about the way you'd like to see F1 go but I think we may just have to agree to disagree because it seems like we get different things out of the sport. Is that fair to say? :)
 
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