The current price of oil

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by billyboy, Apr 5, 2003.

  1. billyboy macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    The Bush Administration has been misusing the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) by keeping it topped up with oil at premium prices, while stocks of commercially available oil have fallen commensurately. Basically those 40 million barrels out of circulation drove oil to nearly $40 a barrel this year and the US people are paying an extra 25-35c a gallon on fuel. Such is the price of war plans.*

    (Taken from the Observer October 2002.) "The US National Energy Policy Report of 2001 - known as the 'Cheney Report' after its author Vice President Dick Cheney, formerly one of America's richest and most powerful oil industry magnates - demanded a priority on easing US access to Persian Gulf supplies.

    Doubts about Saudi Arabia - even before 11 September, and even more so in its wake - led US strategists to seek a backup supply in the region." (The Saudis were/are the single biggest supplier in the Middle East and with so many of the WTC Al Quaeda terrorists coming from Saudi Arabia, the fear was that the country, and by definition the oil fields, were at risk from radical anti-US forces.) "America needs 20 million barrels of crude a day, and analysts have singled out the country that could meet up to half that requirement: Iraq." Iraq has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. According to oil industry experts, new exploration could probably raise Iraq’s reserves to 2-300 billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce...

    For whatever reason, in November 2001, Bush ordered the SPR to be filled to capacity and from January 2002, reserves grew by 150,000 barrels a day.

    In January 2003 US crude oil stocks were already running low. Inventories were down to their second-lowest level since records began in 1976. The Observer in January 2003 wrote, "with the build-up to a conflict in Iraq accelerating, Mr Horsnell, oil analyst at JP Morgan said, there was considerable potential for interruptions in supply in coming months."

    It was calculated that reserves at that time, plus the SPR and stocks of finished oil products, could keep the US economy going for 77 days. The on-going oil workers' strike in Venezuela (the source of 25% of all US oil) held back supply. It has been a long winter in the US, the country continues to guzzle more oil per head than any country on earth...


    Maybe the removal of the Taliban threat has been successful and Saudi Arabia is secure and can be trusted to keep supplying the States as per usual. Cheney assured us on the radio yesterday that the US did not need the Iraqi oil, and his statement about oil needs today is quite true, if applied to US energy needs literally today, but if you stand back from the sound byte, look at the commercial oil levels in the US, and the effect of a full SPR on domestic oil prices, his statement is clearly misleading flannel, and you can see the need for a speedy conclusion to the invasion.

    * The report, U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: Recent Policy Has Increased Cost to Consumers But Not Overall U.S. Energy Security. This link does not seem to be up. http://levin.senate.gov/releases/030503pr1.htm.
     
  2. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    #2
    Interesting, pretty sad that the world care only about our oil and not about the death whe had and still having.

    Last friday, a group of guys where targetting to a 7 year old boy in a distance, the 5th shoot hit his head and killed him. The boy's father was inside the house, the shooters disapear.

    Last months we had 670 casualties by fire arms in Venezuela, more casualties than the Irak war.

    In december we had more casualties than that because of the political discusion, I was arrested and I have a provetion that does not allow me to leave the city, just because I was manifesting against the government.

    As we discover last december, in the world "a drop of oil is more important than a drop of blood".
     
  3. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #3
    Oh god, another GD "No Blood For Oil" fanatic. Spare us will you? Need I remind you that Bush and Blair along with both of our legislative branches voted for this war. I highly doubt that all these people would send our forces to die for a dollar. Plus the economics of your theory don't make sense. The iraqi's couldn't pump enough Oil to pay back the war in 10 years let alone Bush's and Blair's terms.

    Have you given one thought about the Iraqi lives we're saving by removing Saddam from power? Oh.. you haven't.... well maybe you should read this...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2919805.stm

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83283,00.html

    It's on BBC and Fox News so I don't even want to hear it about how Fox isn't credible. Every news organization knows this. And I'm telling you now... this is the tip of the iceberg.
     
  4. Perci Mac macrumors member

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    #4
  5. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #5
     
  6. Perci Mac macrumors member

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    #6
    Dude, don't even compare the two. It's like comparing Christopher Columbus to Hitler.
     
  7. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #7
    what are you talking about, comparing what?

    iJon
     
  8. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #8
    But what's with all the No Blood for Oil Nazi's? What because a country has a non-renewable resource that's a cash crop we have to excuse the atrocities it's leader commits against it's people? You watch TV much? The Iraqi's are very happy to see us. In fact, some Iraqi women are running up to give our soldiers food and water, the two things that right now they don't have much of mostly because Saddam is doing everything in his power to keep it from them.

    Oh yeah by the way... mr. pro-saddam, What about the bill introduced by the so called Oil slurping Republicans just passed in the House for the widespread use of Ethanol as a replacement to gasoline? Did you read about that? No, probably not because that would have defeated the point of your argument.
     
  9. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #9
    Dude, Bush international is in the Desert West of Bagdad.
     
  10. Perci Mac macrumors member

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    #10
    Okay, I didn't know there actually was a Bush International, I just thought he was comparing Bush to Sadaam. My bad ij.
     
  11. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #11
    im confused, are you correcting me or what. its late and im tired, inform me,lol.

    iJon
     
  12. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #12
    i wasnt comparing them, i was being sarcastic. i was talking about us taking over saddam international airport, and i was being sarcastic and calling it bush international, as in we took it over.

    iJon
     
  13. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #13
    FYI, Columbus isn't exactly considered an angel by many people in the Americas.
     
  14. Perci Mac macrumors member

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    Never said he was. Bush isn't considered an angel, but he sure as heck ain't no Hitler. In fact, quite the opposite. Instead of killing people of a certain minority, he's going in to protect people that Sadaam has tried to kill, many being ****e Muslims.

    (okay, that isn't a bad word, I was trying to type S h i t e Muslims.)
     
  15. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #15
    Shi'ite. ;)

    Columbus came to America with good intentions, and the result of his "discovery" was the death, genocide and slavery of many native people.

    The main concern here is that the long term results of this conflict go far beyond the destruction of Saddam's regime.
     
  16. Perci Mac macrumors member

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    #16
    True, and when do we stop? How many countries do we liberate? It is a valid question. As for the rebuilding of Iraq, I don't think it will be too difficult, look at Afghanistan, not pretty, but better than what they've had for a long time.
     
  17. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #17
    How much worse could it possibly be? Perhaps you didn't read the article I posted above.
     
  18. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #18
    I read the article and I've seen the footage on CNN.

    It can get much worse if we turn the entire Arab world against us.
     
  19. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #19
    The arab world is already against us. They are taught from a very young age to hate the West. Why? Because we support Israel. As long as Israel exists, and much after it's destruction we will be hated. No matter if we pull back and stop supporting Israel, they will hate us. They will hate us if we start drilling our own oil because what they used to make money on now they can't even give to us. That is the current nature of their society. The Iraqi's are happy to see that they are being freed. It's pretty easy for the rest of the Muslim world to be against us when they don't live in Iraq. But then again, it's pretty easy to blow yourself up in a bus full of women and children than take on a man with a gun.
     
  20. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #20
    The lack of Iraqis thronging into the streets, greeting their American liberators is staggering.

    There are much larger issues here than Israel vs Muslims. It's about basic cultural differences and how what we see as doing them a favor, they see as another violent attack on their culture.
     
  21. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

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    #21
    That's why if we put in an Iraqi led government and get the hell out of dodge we can dispell that.
     
  22. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #22
    Let's only hope that can happen.

    It's getting really interesting with the troops moving through Baghdad so quick and the apparent disorder of the Iraqi government at this point.

    What if we can't confirm Saddam's whereabouts and condition? We overtake Baghdad and then what? Who surrenders to us? If Saddam goes underground, or is dead but we can't confirm it, where does that leave the US?
     
  23. chewbaccapits macrumors 6502a

    chewbaccapits

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    #23
    Its obvious AMERICA has its interests or else we would be trying to change the regime in China, Cuba and North Korea as well....I believe in the long run saddam is a threat by selling or giving WMD to rogue states..I do believe that...But when I read this, it turns my belief and pride of this wonderful country into doubt and shame...I love my country but fear our government.



    http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
     
  24. billyboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    #24
    There are several points to my posting which was a long term overview, and therefore the knee jerk sound byte arguments from people who read "oil" and saw red mist and quoted counter arguments based on the here and now are just proving the effectiveness of a very convoluted disinformation strategy to cover the reason for the invasion by the US.

    - Even before 9-11 the US administration was preparing ways of cutting their reliance on Saudi oil, and whether people like it or not, Iran with 3-500 billion barrels of oil reserves, the second biggest source in the world, was a target.

    - Against a background of so-called exhaustive negotiations for a peaceful resolution to the Iraq regime, the US people have been paying for the war effort preparations since November 2001 when the Bush Administration abused the SRP by topping the salt mine reservoirs with 40 billion barrels taken out of the consumer market. This shortage of consumer oil on the world market manipulated prices up and the US people no longer had access to cheap oil despite the massive reserves designed specifically to avoid this pricing scenario. I dont drive so I dont give a toss about the price of gas, but plenty of people have been paying.

    - For those prepared to clear the red mist from their eyes, I agree Saddam has to go. There is no doubt Saddam is a complete and utter bastard, and has been committing atrocities against not only his people consistently, but periodicaly against the Iranians, Kurds, Kuwaitis... since coming to power in 1969. However, it seems unlikely that with the SRP shennanigans going on behind the scenes, a peaceful UN brokered resolution was ever in the US thinking. (And strange as it may seem, there are ways to deal with the worst people if there is a will.)

    - The aspects of the US invasion that no sound byte pro warmonger can defend are the humanitarian effort and the idea that the US Administration are the paternal good guys. (The US people are not responsible for the strategy, so please dont try and say this some sort of sleight on decent people on the street.) From 1980 until two weeks before the 1991 Gulf War, the US was Saddam's ally and turned more than a blind eye to well documented atrocities. It did not suit US policy to rock the boat. It did not suit the US to depose Saddam during the first Gulf War. This does not excuse Saddam's atrocities but the number of kids who died from malnutrition during sanctions dwarfed the numbers killed directly by Saddam. This did not move the US to act as they are acting now. However, with the likes of Cheney realising the growing importance of Iraqi oil, the Saudis no longer reliable bedfellows, now it does suit the administration to move into Iraq and great efforts are being put into playing oil down and selling the war on every other ground possible.

    - The Venezuela situation has just complicated the war effort and has affected the strategy to march on Baghdad. Whether that is good, bad or indifferent for the US troops and Iraqis I don't know, but time is against the `Us to get the country secured, and the well-being of the Iraqi people is not the number one driving force back at base.

    - Someone said the figures don't add up about just how valuable Iraqi oil is. The Russians, a supplier of arms to Saddam in the Iran Iraq war wrote off $7bn of debt to Iraq, because they had literally hundreds of billions in future oil revenues lined up. The French too had immense contracts in place. If there is no money in Iraqi oil, the market economy might as well pack up and return to the Stone Age.

    - Neither Russia or France are involved in the war. I dont know why France is being so magnanamous. I do know however that there is an oil game going on between Russia and the US over significant oil reserves in Georgia, Uzbekistan and a couple of other countries I cant spell. There are 4000 anti-terrorist US forces stationed there. Time will tell about the significance of that little US mission for peace.

    To set the record straight, I am totally against the war ever starting, but now it is underway, I wish for nothing less than a speedy conclusion to the fighting so that life can get back to some sort of order for everyone caught up in the conflict. However, I believe that there is ample evidence that the whole war effort has been built on a base of sand, and I am not hopeful that anything with such a weak foundation can produce a satisfactory result. To the contrary this is going nowhere very fast and will create more problems than it ever solves. Good bye saddam hello ?
     
  25. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #25
    Turns out those were bodies of Iranian soldiers from the Iran-Iraq war.

    But anyway, no one's arguing that Saddam killed many of his people. We know for a fact he killed thousands of Kurds with the chemical weapons we gave him and trained him how to use...
     

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